Do you prefer Gradius or R-Type.

[evil_ash_xero]

I'll go with R-Type overall, but I prefer Gradius V to any R-Type game. Especially Final.

But III and Delta were fantastic.

In terms of Gradius, I only really like Gaiden and V, and I prefer Delta to Gaiden.

It's kinda tight though.

s/m

[Jockel]

if you go by console ports then super r-type is a helluva lot better than the port of gradius 3 aswell..

oO Srsly? Super R-Type was already a nightmare, especially in the PAL-Version.

[moozooh]

Art: R-Type. Gradius's art themes are mostly typical for shooters, except Moai that is typical for Konami in general. R-Type's isn't overly unique, but it was so at the time of its release, and it provided more inspiration for other games.

Music: Gradius. Konami's anthems are awesome.

Design: Gradius. It's more simple (you pretty much always know what's coming and how to deal with it), and at the same time less of an asshole. Besides, Gradius V's design is pretty awesome.

Difficulty: I think R-Type, but I'd say its difficulty is of the "wrong" type. I think that, once completely memorized, they're easier than certain Gradius games at high loops.

My choice: Gradius.

[captpain]

Music: Gradius. Konami's anthems are awesome.

Oh yes, I forgot about this. I really like the music in the Gradius series. Excellent over the top "one man versus impossible odds" type stuff.

[spadgy]

I find Gradius too fantastic.

Exactly why I voted Gradius. I love R-type, but I love Gradius a great deal more. Not just the gameplay but the atmosphere, design and soundtrack...

[Thunder Force]

Up until recently, for me this used to be R-Type all the way. Gradius' moai heads never impressed me, since the first time I saw them...

Meanwhile R-Type had:
- awesome set-pieces featuring one incredible Giger-esque monster after another
- awesome reflecting lasers (the helix laser and ground beam were pretty cool too.)
- effective remotely-controllable upgradable pod, providing the player with a variety of offensive and defensive playstyles
- and, the immensely satisfying variable charge beam (another stroke of genius game design, imo) that could take down huge enemies in a single shot.

It was no contest... R-Type was one of the best horizontal arcade shmups ever.

I think the design and execution that went into that original arcade game is extremely underrated. It feels like someone at Irem sat down and drew a bunch of super-ambitious storyboards and set-pieces, and the way all the weapons and gameplay mechanics would work... but instead of then throwing away 95% of the original ideas for being unfeasible and producing a simplified game for the 1980s, Irem somehow perfectly translated their detailed art & game design into game code. Everything was so conceptually rich for a 1980s game, from the creatures hiding amidst the vast alien boneyard you are flying through in stage 2, to the perfectly executed assault against the battlecruiser reactor in stage 3...

Taking that game from concept to coin-op is still one of the great accomplishments from that golden era of arcades. When R-Type was released into 80s arcades it was like a game from the future.

Ok, maybe that's enough hyperbole for now? Probably my early apathy for Gradius was because I never got to play the Gradius 2 arcade (the best of the early Gradiuses) until much later. And then the Gradius series went on to hit new highs (Gradius Gaiden, Gradius V), eventually overtaking the R-Type franchise through sheer technical virtuosity. I'm still a loyal R-Type fan though, so that's what I voted for.

[FIL]

Leo is probably my favourite R-Type, but them i'm not a big R-Type enthusiast.

[silvergunner]

Both Series has quality.I can´t decide which of them I prefer!

R-Type:III/Delta
Gradius:Gaiden/V

2:2

But the last installment of R-Type (Final) was a big disappoint for me!

[J-Manic]

I'm gonna go with Gradius, based on the last installement in the series versus R-Type Final.

Someone should start a "Thunder Force or Darius" poll.

[Herr Schatten]

When R-Type was released into 80s arcades it was like a game from the future.

To see how advanced it really was it's interesting to know that Exzisus was released at the same time as R-Type, and it pretty much showed the status quo of shmups back then. Go compare.

[daf911]

if you go by console ports then super r-type is a helluva lot better than the port of gradius 3 aswell..

Voted R-type, only for the fact that i've been playing Super R-Type
for ages when i was a teenager...(couldn't afford another game)

[MathU]

It does have some really catchy remixes. I own Gradius III SNES and Super R-Type and I still play it more. The absence of checkpoints isn't quite so aggravating when you're good at the game.

[MR_Soren]

R-Type because the force is cool and the Gradius power-up system sucks hard when you die.

[electricgrave]

Gradius all the way!!!

I love R-type, but this question has allways been pestering hand in hand each time I play either game, however the answer for me is simple, I love the Vic Vyper to damn much!, but R-type has that alien "esque" feel to it, it's very atmospherical, at least way more than Gradius, the thing with Gradius is just everything is cool, my only complaint is some of the boss fights are almost too easy.

[Impervious]

deaht in gradius - very very very tedious powerup recovery.
death in r-type - not as much checkpoints.

every gradius - the final boss is a joke. do nothing and win.
every r-type - throw your r-type at the final boss and win.

...still, gradius III / V > R-type III / Final

[ForceDevice]

R-Type kicks Gradius' ass in every way imaginable. All Gradius games (except for V) have an "it's just a game" feeling I just don't like. the enemies are uninspired, the music is ridiculous, the levels magically appear out of nowhere... it just doesn't keep me interested for the most part. V did manage to solve this problem adding a bit (just a bit) of realism, though.

Also, the level design in every Gradius feels too artificial; everything looks like it's randomly generated, even when it isn't. I'd much rather have a game that forces me to memorize whole levels, because at least I know those levels were carefully planned and not just randomly thrown at me.

There's also the Gradius powerup system, which I hate, but I'm sure someone must have already mentioned it in this thread, so I won't bother.

Bottom line: Gradius < R-Type

[Super Laydock]

Gradius for sure! When taking into account the Salamander games...even more.

R-type had cooler bosses though. I'll give it that.

Music/scope/weapon systems and most importantly enjoyment ... Gradius blows R-Type out of the water.

[No_not_like_Quake]

Gradius refined what a 2D hori shmup is. The only thing about the first one that was average for it's time was the sound.

Gaiden also marks one of the pinnacles of the genre, IMO.

[nimitz]

instead of a game by game comparison I'm going to do a aspect by aspect comparison. feel free to bring back and explain to me any disagreements you might have .

(once again im leaving Gradius V and R-type final out of the equation since they have nothing to do with the actual series)


Boss design : R-type has to win this one, even if many bosses are total ripoffs from Giger's Aliens they still feels more inspired, and they are much more memorable. Winner = R-type


Level Design : (By level design I mean the gameplay aspect of the said levels, like easier spots leading to tougher ones or midbosses and such). Then again I would say R-type wins the levels always feel like they have been worked on for a long while nothing seems out of place. Winner = R-type


Game concepts : (options, force, powerups) : While the R-type Force offer many possibilites but, unfortunalely because of the way the games are designed it often feels like you HAVE to use your force in a certain position for part of a level which defeats the purpose of being able to "play around" with the force, you also have the charge shot which is a nice addition. On the other hand the Gradius options aren't as complex but you can almost always use then the way you see fit and experiment with them.
As for the Gradius powerup system, I would say that people who "hate" it are the ones who don't really appreciate challenge. The fact that it lets you customize your ship in real-time is very seldom seen in shmups. losing everything after a death may be frustrating, but after a while you have to admit that Gradius wouldn't be as much fun without that "extra challenge". --------Winner = Debatable


Art direction : I would say R-type wins this one, the Gradius games do have some nice themes, but in the end, the R-type universe is deeper and more immersive Winner = R-type


Music: While both series have good music, Konami's themes are just more polished and more memorable. I do have to mention the first R-type though, which has many awesome melodies all around. Winner = Gradius


Twitch Dodging : Gradius wins this one too, and for me this is the biggest difference between the two series. Gradius rank will overwhelm you with bullets, then will throw an option eater at you the missed popcorn enemies will start throwing VERY fast bullets as they pass you by, the games quickly become dodging hell and knowing exactly how big your hitbos is becomes crucial. R-type relies mostly on memorisation instead. Winner = Gradius


Overall Difficulty : Gradius wins this one hands down if only for the fact that you can loop the games as many times as you can. But even without this games like Gradius 3 and 4 are as though as Hori shmups get. All of it without relying on pure memorisation. Winner = Gradius


In conclusion we see that R-type is more for "casual" shmuppers that will enjoy the bosses desings, the immersion and the relatively quick progression by memorizing part of the games. While the Konami's Gradius (1 ,2,3, 4 and to a lesser extent Gaiden) are for the more "Hardcore" crowd who will enjoy the crazy rank, the unforgiving side of the powerup and checkpoint systems and the crazy multi-directional dodging.

[MathU]

Gradius doesn't require any less memorization than R-Type.

[nimitz]

Gradius doesn't require any less memorization than R-Type.

If you are on a good run of an R-type game and manage to get to a level you've never seen before (one of the later levels) you will die pretty quick and slowly learn the "traps" with your mistakes.

In a Gradius it is completely possible to clear a never seen before level on dodging skills alone(with a bit of luck). The memorization aspect of Gradius games appears if you want to milk everything out of a level.

That being said Gradius V requires even more memorization than the R-type games. but i did mention that I wasn't including this game.

First of all, lets forget about Gradius V and R-Type final since they really aren't part of the series.

lol, what a load of shit.

I wouldn't go as far as calling GV a "load of shit" , but I admit its far from a masterpiece.

[RackGaki]

I prefer Gradius over R-type, but they are both quality series. Gradius V probably breaks what would otherwise be a dead equal tie.

Nimitz pretty accurately described the ups and downs of each series (albeit pre PS2 era). I adore the Gradius powerup system, as difficult and ass-lancing as it may seem at times. You get rewarded for not sucking - 'nuff said.

[Andi]

Someone should start a "Thunder Force or Darius" poll.

What the point? Darius. End of thread.

[j^aws]

instead of a game by game comparison I'm going to do a aspect by aspect comparison. feel free to bring back and explain to me any disagreements you might have .

(once again im leaving Gradius V and R-type final out of the equation since they have nothing to do with the actual series)


Boss design : R-type has to win this one, even if many bosses are total riposs from Giger's Aliens they still feels more inspired, and they are much more memorable. Winner = R-type

Agreed.

Level Design : (By level design I mean the gameplay aspect of the said levels, like easier spots leading to tougher ones or midbosses and such). Then again I would say R-type wins the levels always feel like they have been worked on for a long while nothing seems out of place. Winner = R-type

Agreed.

Game concepts : (options, force, powerups) : While the R-type Force offer many possibilites but, unfortunalely because of the way the games are designed it often feels like you HAVE to use your force in a certain position for part of a level which defeats the purpose of being able to "play around" with the force, you also have the charge shot which is a nice addition.

Explained earlier in thread. You can still "play around" with the Force beyond set pieces.

On the other hand the Gradius options aren't as complex but you can almost always use then the way you see fit and experiment with them.
As for the Gradius powerup system, I would say that people who "hate" it are the ones who don't really appreciate challenge. The fact that it lets you customize your ship in real-time is very seldom seen in shmups. losing everything after a death may be frustrating, but after a while you have to admit that Gradius wouldn't be as much fun without that "extra challenge". --------Winner = Debatable

I don't personally hate the weapon/ powerup system in Gradius. I just think that Stargate (Defender II, circa '81) had a better, more flexible system and I was never that impressed with Gradius. OTOH, I thought R-Types was a breath of fresh air.

Art direction : I would say R-type wins this one, the Gradius games do have some nice themes, but in the end, the R-type universe is deeper and more immersive Winner = R-type

Agreed

Music: While both series have good music, Konami's themes are just more polished and more memorable. I do have to mention the first R-type though, which has many awesome melodies all around. Winner = Gradius

Personally don't care much for music (BGM); play what I like if I get bored. Sound effects are more important to me.

Twitch Dodging : Gradius wins this one too, and for me this is the biggest difference between the two series. Gradius rank will overwhelm you with bullets, then will throw an option eater at you the missed popcorn enemies will start throwing VERY fast bullets as they pass you by, the games quickly become dodging hell and knowing exactly how big your hitbos is becomes crucial. R-type relies mostly on memorisation instead. Winner = Gradius

R-Type's not really about 'twitch dodging', but I generally agree with the above. I'll mention Stargate again that came before Gradius; which also had very fast bullets, rank etc.; so for me, it's a matter of complementary tastes, and R-Type was refreshing.

Overall Difficulty : Gradius wins this one hands down if only for the fact that you can loop the games as many times as you can. But even without this games like Gradius 3 and 4 are as though as Hori shmups get. All of it without relying on pure memorisation. Winner = Gradius

This genre relies on memorization to varying degrees. There isn't anything "pure" about it. Go for a World Record if you want to test difficulty; which not every player will find equally challenging.

In conclusion we see that R-type is more for "casual" shmuppers that will enjoy the bosses desings, the immersion and the relatively quick progression by memorizing part of the games. While the Konami's Gradius (1 ,2,3, 4 and to a lesser extent Gaiden) are for the more "Hardcore" crowd who will enjoy the crazy rank, the unforgiving side of the powerup and checkpoint systems and the game and the crazy multi-directional dodging.

I tend to ignore arguments that conclude with labeling games "casual" and "hardcore", especially when they try to suggest a "hardcore" label for themselves... ;P

[Mortificator]

Gradius doesn't require any less memorization than R-Type.

If you are on a good run of an R-type game and manage to get to a level you've never seen before (one of the later levels) you will die pretty quick and slowly learn the "traps" with your mistakes.

In a Gradius it is completely possible to clear a never seen before level on dodging skills alone(with a bit of luck). The memorization aspect of Gradius games appears if you want to milk everything out of a level.

Recovery's the reason Gradius games need memorization. You're gonna die while playing any shooter worth a damn, and a stock Vic Viper is incredibly sluggish and undergunned. It needs a lot of power capsules to get back to a respectable level, and there are many checkpoints in the games where you'll be swamped before getting a chance to collect even one - the checkpoint in Gradius II where the ceiling and floor fall at you immediately after spawning, for example, or the one near the end of the fortress in the first title where enemies flood the screen with bullets. You could cruise through the whole game without any trouble, then die and quickly lose your remaining lives within seconds.

In comparison, a stock R-9's faster, has a gun with a much higher rate of fire, and always has heavy firepower available with its wave cannon. With just two laser crystals and a speed-up you're ready to rumble, and in Delta and Final you don't even need the speed-up.

So while you're more likely to get smashed by something unexpected in R-Type, you're also more likely to recover and make it past that obstacle on the same credit. Gradius is less likely to strike you down with a bolt from the blue, but you sort of need to have the whole game in your head from the beginning, because if you do lose a life the huge difficulty spike very likely means the end of your run.

There are exceptions, of course. R-Type's dreaded Stage 7 checkpoint is pretty unfair, and Gradius Gaiden's customizable power meter & generous power capsules make recovery a breeze.

[moozooh]

Recovery's the reason Gradius games need memorization. You're gonna die while playing any shooter worth a damn, and a stock Vic Viper is incredibly sluggish and undergunned. It needs a lot of power capsules to get back to a respectable level, and there are many checkpoints in the games where you'll be swamped before getting a chance to collect even one - the checkpoint in Gradius II where the ceiling and floor fall at you immediately after spawning, for example, or the one near the end of the fortress in the first title where enemies flood the screen with bullets. You could cruise through the whole game without any trouble, then die and quickly lose your remaining lives within seconds.

That's the main reason I have for disliking all Gradiuses except V, because it neither sends you to a checkpoint (unless you specify), nor takes your options away.

[spadgy]

As I read some of the very valid arguments here, it makes me realise how much the atmosphere and character of a game effects my affection towards it. As I've read the above, it's made me think that maybe in choosing Gradius as a a game I love far more than R-Type, I've actually chosen the wrong one for me. I'm fairly unspectacular at Gradius, and the punishing nature of going back to stock pains me greatly everytime and I progress slowly.

But I went back to R-Type and it just doesn't do it for me anything like Gradius can. I'd always argue shmups are about gameplay first and foremost by a significant degree, and I do adore the gameplay of Gradius of course, but it's style and personality seems almost as influential over me. Like a reassuring recurring dream you have as a child, Gradius is a place I love to visit over and over.

That said, with almost every other shmup, my tastes are purely effected by the gameplay.

Maybe I just have a crush on Gradius...

[MathU]

If you love it so much, why don't you marry it?

[spadgy]

My wife might complain if I run away with Vic Viper!

I read an article the other day about a woman who married the Berlin Wall. Maybe her vicar could sort me out.

You get the first invite MathU.

[mr_m0nks]

My wife might complain if I run away with Vic Viper!

I read an article the other day about a woman who married the Berlin Wall. Maybe her vicar could sort me out.

You get the first invite MathU.

i saw something on TV about her, apparently she is having an affair with her garden fence behind the Berlin Walls back



but shes a R-Type fan so she can do what she wants