Do you think shmups will completely die out?

[umi]

A minority in a world with ~4 billion people in it is still a fuckload of people :P Enough to make money off of. And when you consider a team of just a few people can make a shooter...

[Edge]

To get Shmups totally mainstream is nearly impossible, right now.
But I think the designers should try to get some other players interested in this genre too.

I have tried to introduce Shmups to many of my friends, which are all not the casual player type. But all of them are always complaining about the difficulty.

Shoot'em ups are really fucking hard and that's good offcourse. I think it would be better if more shooters would have those splitting system like "Sexy Parodius" or "Star Fox 64".
You have some kind of mission and if you don't suceed, you will play the easier levels. And these really have to be easier. But if you suceed you'll get to those really hard regular shmup level. To make the first level (or the easy levels not so boring) you have to insert lots of opportunities for better scoring, that will even challenge very good players.

Most people think they could never manage to play a Shmup. I myself was really shoked when I played DoDonPachi the first time. Luckilly, I don't give up so easy on games, but many other do.

What I mean is that shmups should be hard as always but they should be more friendly to newcomers. Some of them might end up as new shmup fans.

The other thing is the graphic.
We all know that even 2D graphics can look a lot better than they do in most shmups. With the new consoles you can give your shmup a really cool realtime 3D look, like Gradius V had.

Besides I think beat'em ups are more mainstream then shoot'em ups. Tekken, Dead or Alvie or even Street Fighter or King of Fighters are more known today than Gradius, Dodonpachi etc.


@Dark Saibot & The vagrant:
Please stop to argue about that. I really don't want to act like a forum policeman, but I just don't like seeing you blaming each other.
I am happy that shmups.com is a nice community, unlike many others, where people can talk and discuss about their hobby without beeing flamed /blamed & bashed by the other members.
So please, for the sake of this forum, just let the other be with his opinion and don't try to have the last word.

I apologize if I have insulted any of you with what i wrote, I didn't mean to do so.

[black mariah]

Edge hits on a shitload of good points. First off, why does EVERY shmup have to be balls hard from the beginning? Even if the first level is easy you know it's going to be fucking ridiculous by stage 3 (Hi, Psikyo!). I hate shmups where I can easily get to stage four then all of a sudden you go from moderately difficult to insane (What's up, Giga Wing 2?). Why not a more gradual ramp up, over more levels?

[visuatrox]

Besides I think beat'em ups are more mainstream then shoot'em ups. Tekken, Dead or Alvie or even Street Fighter or King of Fighters are more known today than Gradius, Dodonpachi etc.

Actually I think vagrant was talking about beat'em ups of the scrolling kind with 2D gameplay. You know Final Fight, Double Dragon etc.. Now that genre is truly dead, especially since the beat'em up sequels going to be released all have 3D cameras

And about graphics, 2D is far from maxed out yet (and honestly current consoles don't even have particularly good hardware for 2D games). Mushihime will probably be pushing the PS2's limits when it comes to handling sprites. People will be whining about low resolution in the game, but honestly the PS2 would probably not been able to handle the game if it had been highresolution. What I'm saying is that even graphically there is plenty that can be improved even for 2D games.

What I mean is that shmups should be hard as always but they should be more friendly to newcomers. Some of them might end up as new shmup fans.

I agree this is one major thing that needs some attention. I think the best way is just to include a really easy difficulty setting, but one that will not let you see all the levels or complete the game. Far too many gamers nowdays don't play games to have fun or for score, they just want to complete the game. Therefore if they are unable to see all levels on Easy difficulty they must spend time mastering the game, and thus they can't come whining that the game is too short.

But then most people just give up before they even tried. Most shmups are difficult but fair, if you suck at the game you will know When I first played a ESPGaluda on Arrange mode I was overwhelmed about the difficulty, could not get past the first boss. But now after some playing it feels like the first boss is a piece of cake :p

[chtimi-CLA]

shmups are a niche market now, but not a shrinking market.
look at all those new shmups, and good ones too. i'm much more optimistic about the future of shmups than a few years ago.

[TVG]

yea, mushi is a good example on how it should be done, different modes with varied difficulty like in raizing games, im sure thats one of the reasons it was sucessful in the arcades.
all those games where difficulty settings are almost the same are not right, and that goes for cave usual stuff too.

[Guest]

Dark Saibot wrote:
Well, if you bothered to read my message, instead of just glancing at it once and saying that it was dumb, then you might realize I was making a point, that the current state of the video game industry centers around sales and hype.

Instead of the glory days when it revolved around sunshine and gumdrops?

Heh...well, in my previous message, didn't I already say that I know money was always part of the industry? I mean, it IS an industry, there would be no industry if they weren't making money. The way I see it, the difference between then and now comes down to actual game quality and programming. Game programming has basically turned into "game developing"...as in, Sony gives their developers pre-made 3D game engines, then all they have to do is come up with graphics, sound, polygon models, smut trash, etc for the most part, save for some slight modification of the engine. Programmers used to make all their shit from scratch instead of just taking some pre-made engine and loading it down with smut.

Games such as Mega Man, Castlevania, Blaster Master, etc, as cheesy as they may seem now, were unique and original, not offering much in terms of graphics, but were extremely innovative in terms of creativity and style. Kill Theft Auto 12 or whatever the next pig shite game coming out is just a ripoff of the last game with bigger boobs on the hookers and more hot cars to steal. No originality whatsoever.

Now don't get me wrong, i have nothing against violence in games, however, I am against smut killfest games that have no point, no object, and no solid gameplay. As far as actual number of shooters vs. the actual number of gta ripoff pig shite games, there may be almost the same amount out there now, however, gta pig shite games are sitll being produced in a rather high volume(while shooters trickle out), and they will continue to be, as long as they continue to sell to America's deprived youth through Sony's market hype tactics.

Sexy Parodius. You lose.

What? You mean somebody actually attempted to cross-breed the shooter genre with the x-rated pig shite genre?

@Dark Saibot & The vagrant:
Please stop to argue about that. I really don't want to act like a forum policeman, but I just don't like seeing you blaming each other.
I am happy that shmups.com is a nice community, unlike many others, where people can talk and discuss about their hobby without beeing flamed /blamed & bashed by the other members.
So please, for the sake of this forum, just let the other be with his opinion and don't try to have the last word.

I apologize if I have insulted any of you with what i wrote, I didn't mean to do so.

I have no intention of fighting with anybody. I just can't help but laugh that this guy keeps repeatedly calling me dumb and stupid for no apparent reason, while the grammar and spelling of his own messages are on a kindergarden level.

[jp]

Shmups will die the day Nintendo dies.



*Translation: There is enough of a cult following behind shmups to ensure its survival for quite awhile, much like there is with Nintendo*



Just had to add that note so none of the uber anti-Nintendo folk jumped in and accused me of saying Nintendo had the best shmups or something.

[sethsez]

Dark Saibot wrote:
Well, if you bothered to read my message, instead of just glancing at it once and saying that it was dumb, then you might realize I was making a point, that the current state of the video game industry centers around sales and hype.

Instead of the glory days when it revolved around sunshine and gumdrops?

Heh...well, in my previous message, didn't I already say that I know money was always part of the industry? I mean, it IS an industry, there would be no industry if they weren't making money. The way I see it, the difference between then and now comes down to actual game quality and programming. Game programming has basically turned into "game developing"...as in, Sony gives their developers pre-made 3D game engines, then all they have to do is come up with graphics, sound, polygon models, smut trash, etc for the most part, save for some slight modification of the engine. Programmers used to make all their shit from scratch instead of just taking some pre-made engine and loading it down with smut.

There are, at most, 20 GTA clones on the three current systems (and that's being generous). However, there are thousands of games. This "loading down with smut" thing sounds like bitching from someone who's bitter and just likes to complain.

Games such as Mega Man, Castlevania, Blaster Master, etc, as cheesy as they may seem now, were unique and original, not offering much in terms of graphics, but were extremely innovative in terms of creativity and style. Kill Theft Auto 12 or whatever the next pig shite game coming out is just a ripoff of the last game with bigger boobs on the hookers and more hot cars to steal. No originality whatsoever.

Yep, no originality in Devil May Cry, Katamari Damacy, Rez, Ico, Super Monkey Ball, Half-Life 2, Gitaroo Man, etc. Come on, think for a second and realize that there were plenty of absolutely derivative, cheesy platformers in the 8 and 16 bit eras that in no way could measure up to the classics you mentioned. In fact, there were plenty of shite games period. In a generation that's had thousands of games released, it seems a bit ridiculous to bitch about the state of things on the basis of a relatively small sub-genre that hasn't even managed to produce 20 games.

Now don't get me wrong, i have nothing against violence in games, however, I am against smut killfest games that have no point, no object, and no solid gameplay.

Plenty would argue with you about the gameplay, but I'd also like to point out that you're completely missing the point of the content. It's a parody of the over-the-top violence in action movies and such and always has been. There's a reason why the talk stations are parodies, the commercials are parodies, the billboards are parodies, etc. The content is not supposed to be taken seriously. I always thought this was obvious in a game that lets you get a rocket launcher, blow up everyone downtown and then hijack a tank when the army arrives, but I guess not.

As far as actual number of shooters vs. the actual number of gta ripoff pig shite games, there may be almost the same amount out there now, however, gta pig shite games are sitll being produced in a rather high volume(while shooters trickle out), and they will continue to be, as long as they continue to sell to America's deprived youth through Sony's market hype tactics.

What high volume is this? We have a new True Crime coming (which nobody cares about), a Scarface game (which everyone agrees is a bad idea), and a new GTA on the PSP and one in the indeterminate future for the PS3. This is hardly a high volume when you consider that there are about as many shmups currently in the works. Once again, the sky is not falling, and GTA clones are not taking over the world. In fact, the only GTA games that really sell well are the GTA games themselves... most people don't care about the clones.

Sexy Parodius. You lose.

What? You mean somebody actually attempted to cross-breed the shooter genre with the x-rated pig shite genre?

Yes, hentai and shmups have gone together for about as long as the genres have existed. Not to mention doujin shmups that reward you with anime tits for killing a boss or whatever.

And yet, somehow, the genre goes on.

[ST Dragon]

When the Shoot Em Up genre completly dies out, it will summon the Apocalypse!

[rib]

i feel to add something here,

shooters wont die as long as games wont.
because the shmup is a very fundamental kind of game, like chess is.
and a shmups is in general timeless from its gameplay because it has reached a level where its inner core is established and changes are happening in the detail mostly.
every generation will have its ppl interested in shmups more than in other genres because a shmups gameplay is addictive, the coresystem is easy to understand.
im sure shmups will outlive many other today big selling genres.
good night.

[Guest]

I believe that I make some valid points about why I don't like the current state of the video game industry, don't try to minimize my position into a little box by accusing me of "bitching." It doesn't make your argument seem any stronger. Sorry, but not everybody is going to agree with you. Not everybody is going to be happy with the way things are currently being run, and not everybody is going to like the fact that the market is dominated by gta ripoff pig shite smutfest games. So of course, people like me that aren't happy with what they see are going to have an opinion, and voice those opinions.

In a generation that's had thousands of games released, it seems a bit ridiculous to bitch about the state of things on the basis of a relatively small sub-genre that hasn't even managed to produce 20 games.

Would that "relatively small sub-genre" you are referring to be the "run around and kill hookers and steal their cars" genre that dominates the entire video game market in terms of sales right now? When I said high volume, I don't mean just the actual number of titles, but also the volume in which copies are selling.

I've grown tired of discussing this...it's clear that maybe I've offended some gta3 fanboys...but I will say one more thing, it's funny how games made 20 years ago can still hold their own against the crap games being produced now. All the graphics and hardware capabilities in the world don't mean jack shit if the game developers aren't using them to produce quality games.

[sethsez]

I believe that I make some valid points about why I don't like the current state of the video game industry, don't try to minimize my position into a little box by accusing me of "bitching." It doesn't make your argument seem any stronger. Sorry, but not everybody is going to agree with you. Not everybody is going to be happy with the way things are currently being run, and not everybody is going to like the fact that the market is dominated by gta ripoff pig shite smutfest games. So of course, people like me that aren't happy with what they see are going to have an opinion, and voice those opinions.

And I'll voice my opinions in kind. See how that works?

And for the record, no, I don't think your complaint is valid. I think it's "the sky is falling" crap that completely ignores all the other games that are selling well and yet, somehow, have nothing to do with GTA. You're claiming the genre is dominating the market, and I'm saying that nothing backs that up. GTA is a successful series, but so is Halo, so is Gran Turismo, so is Elder Scrolls, so is Pokemon, so is Devil May Cry, so is Final Fantasy, so is World of Warcraft, so is Metroid Prime, so is Super Monkey Ball, and on and on and on.

Platformers dominated the market in the 8 and 16 bit eras because they sold extremely well over multiple series and made up a huge chunk of games released. FPS dominate the PC market because they sell extremely well over multiple series and make up a huge chunk of the games released. GTA clones... well, some of them sell well, it's mostly limited to one series, and there aren't many games. In what way does it dominate?

In a generation that's had thousands of games released, it seems a bit ridiculous to bitch about the state of things on the basis of a relatively small sub-genre that hasn't even managed to produce 20 games.

Would that "relatively small sub-genre" you are referring to be the "run around and kill hookers and steal their cars" genre that dominates the entire video game market in terms of sales right now? When I said high volume, I don't mean just the actual number of titles, but also the volume in which copies are selling.

Dominating? Compared to what? The only games in that genre that are "dominating" are the GTA games, and series like Gran Turismo and Halo have held their own just fine. As I've already said, most of the clones didn't sell all that well and got mixed reviews from critics.

I've grown tired of discussing this...it's clear that maybe I've offended some gta3 fanboys...but I will say one more thing, it's funny how games made 20 years ago can still hold their own against the crap games being produced now. All the graphics and hardware capabilities in the world don't mean jack shit if the game developers aren't using them to produce quality games.

I'm not offended by people attacking GTA, I'm just annoyed by people who have an overwhelming sense of pessimism simply because one series they don't like has become popular. If you had picked on, say, FPS (which I like far more than any GTA game) then you might have a point since FPS are getting more and more popular on both the PC and consoles all the time, and a good chunk of next-gen games shown thus far have been FPS. There actually would be a reason to say that genre is dominating. But the "steal cars in a big city" genre? The only series that's "dominating" is the GTA games, and hey, we've had a whopping three.

And of course games made 20 years ago are just as good as games today. Why wouldn't they? You seem to think I'm some graphics whore, but consider for a moment the fact that I have 200 posts here and was a member of this board for a long time before we switched over to the new system. Border Down was one of my most anticipated games in years and my favorite game of all time is Mega Man 2. I'm not on this board for the hell of it.

I will make my point exactly one more time: as a sub-genre, the GTA style has been moderately successful. The GTA series is a huge hit, some of the clones did okay, most are already forgotten. Ignoring the GTA series, the sub-genre isn't particularly huge, and no matter how you size it up there really aren't many games in the genre. Writing off modern gaming because one series you don't like is popular is just as ridiculous as writing off cinema would have been in the 80s because Friday the 13th was popular. Although even then, at least there were tons of clones. You can't even say that about GTA.

[black mariah]

Would that "relatively small sub-genre" you are referring to be the "run around and kill hookers and steal their cars" genre that dominates the entire video game market in terms of sales right now?

Are you Icelandic or retarded? Dude, for your sake, just shut the fuck up and go away before you make even more of a fool out of yourself.

[Guest]

Any way

Are you Icelandic or retarded? Dude, for your sake, just shut the fuck up and go away before you make even more of a fool out of yourself.

Yes! I'm from Iceland! It's cold here!

...Anyway, what does your racist self have against people from Iceland, anyway? You talk out your ass and seize the opportunity to include a racist remark. Who is making a fool out of themself?

Heh...funny kid. You think you know the way it is, just sit there and talk out your asshole and sling your insults and that's the way it is. You can say whatever the hell you want, you're just a couple lines of text on some website on the internet to me. You're somebody that I'm never going to meet, and you're not going to affect my life in any way. You basically mean zero to me. I've got more important things on my mind. Well, you at least spelled all of your words right when talking out your ass, unlike the last guy. We're making some progress.

As far as pessimism, what is the title of this message. "Do you think shmups will completely die out." Really optimistic there...
Ah well, I believe I've made my point clear as well, I've supplied plenty of reasons why I don't like grand theft auto and its various clones, ripoffs, and wannabes. I'm not saying "the sky is falling" or any shit like that, I just don't like the current state of the business.

I guess I'm just a cranky old man, when it comes to video games. I'll be playing my NES and SNES until the day that I die. Also, don't take anything I say TOO seriously, I may seem a bit opinionated at times, but that doesn't mean that I don't have respect for other peoples opinions. I'm not the type of person that gets frustrated when somebody has a different opinion than me and starts talking out my ass and says BLAH BLAH BLAH SHUT THE FUCK UP AND GO AWAY BLAH BLAH BLAH. You get really pissed off over little things on the internet, mariah, maybe you should go out and try some new things, if things on the internet make you that angry.

[The Bullet Dodger]

I don't think the shmup genre will never die as long as video games exist. It's only one of the longest lasting, and oldest, genres in video game history. They'll just keep getting better and better.

[black mariah]

...Anyway, what does your racist self have against people from Iceland, anyway? You talk out your ass and seize the opportunity to include a racist remark. Who is making a fool out of themself?

--------------------------
Alex Trebek: Wow. The answer, of course, was bread. Let's go to "Members of Simon and Garfunkel" for $200. "Of Simon and Garfunkel, the one that is not Garfunkel." [Bjork buzzes in] Bjork?

Bjork: Sometimes when I'm putting oranges in the sauerkraut, I think of my thoughts and they make me laugh. [buzz] No?

Alex Trebek: Are you Icelandic or retarded? [Sean Connery buzzes in] Sean Connery?

Sean Connery: Can you repeat the question?

---------------------------

I'm fucking white, dumbass. Icelandic people are (mostly) white. The word you're looking for isn't racist it's jingoist. It doesn't really matter because it was a fucking joke that flew so far over your head it cratered on the moon.

As for the rest of your bullshit, the only difference between your posts and mine is that you take nine fucking paragraphs to say, esentially, "You're a fucking dumbass" while I just go ahead and say you're a fucking dumbass.

[sethsez]

As far as pessimism, what is the title of this message. "Do you think shmups will completely die out." Really optimistic there...

Well, yeah, but there's a difference between "shmups will most likely remain a niche" and "all games are going to be GTA in five years." One is realistic pessimism, the other isn't.

I've supplied plenty of reasons why I don't like grand theft auto and its various clones, ripoffs, and wannabes.

Yes you have, and they're valid reasons to not like those games. There's nothing wrong with hating GTA...

I'm not saying "the sky is falling" or any shit like that, I just don't like the current state of the business.

...but this is what I'm taking issue with. GTA clones don't represent the state of the industry as a whole because there aren't many of them and most don't exactly top charts. You're making the leap from "a series I don't like is popular" to "the series is a perfect example of how games play now" and I'm not seeing how you're getting from point A to point B. Like I said earlier, you could make a much better case with the FPS genre than you ever could with GTA.

Also, don't take anything I say TOO seriously, I may seem a bit opinionated at times, but that doesn't mean that I don't have respect for other peoples opinions.

Same here. If I was actually pissed or took any of this really seriously, I'd just be ignoring the debate.

[WarpZone]

We'll always have skill-based electronic games.

That's all the farther I feel I even need to think about it.

[Diabollokus]

I think shmups will always be there.

You can't kill a genre, but shmups can't become a popular genre ever they're too hard for most gamers. Any casual gamer whose been to my house can't beleve how hard they are, just leave amazed that people can play them. If they were ultra easy people would buy loads, developers would make loads but they'd suck and wouldn't be hardcore for sadists like us shmuppos.

I like being in a minority niche, just like being a sega fan (That I am)

[Acid King]

I believe that I make some valid points about why I don't like the current state of the video game industry, don't try to minimize my position into a little box by accusing me of "bitching." It doesn't make your argument seem any stronger. Sorry, but not everybody is going to agree with you. Not everybody is going to be happy with the way things are currently being run, and not everybody is going to like the fact that the market is dominated by gta ripoff pig shite smutfest games. So of course, people like me that aren't happy with what they see are going to have an opinion, and voice those opinions.

In a generation that's had thousands of games released, it seems a bit ridiculous to bitch about the state of things on the basis of a relatively small sub-genre that hasn't even managed to produce 20 games.

Would that "relatively small sub-genre" you are referring to be the "run around and kill hookers and steal their cars" genre that dominates the entire video game market in terms of sales right now? When I said high volume, I don't mean just the actual number of titles, but also the volume in which copies are selling.

NPD Sales for the US in 2004
The top 10 console games of 2004, according to NPD, are listed below. Sales figures are approximate:

1. Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas (PS2) - 5.1 million
2. Halo 2 (Xbox) - 4.2 million
3. Madden NFL 2005 (PS2) - 3.2 million
4. ESPN NFL 2K5 (PS2) - 1.5 million
5. Need for Speed Underground 2 (PS2) - 1.4 million
6. Pokémon FireRed (with adapter) (GBA) - 1.2 million
7. NBA Live 2005 (PS2) - 1.2 million
8. Spider-Man 2 (PS2) - 1.1 million
9. Halo: Combat Evolved (Xbox) - 1.1 million
10. ESPN NFL 2K5 (Xbox)- 1.0 million

There is ONE, count em, ONE "smutfest", which is the original "smutfest", GTA. How are GTA ripoffs dominating the market?

I don't think shooters are in danger of dying out. They will be produced as long as there is demand even if it is a small one.

[Marc]

Games such as Mega Man, Castlevania, Blaster Master, etc, as cheesy as they may seem now, were unique and original, not offering much in terms of graphics, but were extremely innovative in terms of creativity and style. Kill Theft Auto 12 or whatever the next pig shite game coming out is just a ripoff of the last game with bigger boobs on the hookers and more hot cars to steal. No originality whatsoever.

Mega Man and castlevania were far from original, even the original titles, not to mention the countless sequels.

Christ, GTA has only had 2 sequels in the last four years, hardly bad going compared to the Mega Man series right?

I've grown tired of discussing this...it's clear that maybe I've offended some gta3 fanboys...but I will say one more thing, it's funny how games made 20 years ago can still hold their own against the crap games being produced now. All the graphics and hardware capabilities in the world don't mean jack shit if the game developers aren't using them to produce quality games.

What, they aren't producing any quality games? At all?
This generation has it's share of games that will still be just as playable 20 years from now. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, this gen has been no different from any other. Each will have it's flash-in-the-pan titles, where everyopne goes ga-ga upon their initial release, enjoys them immensely at the time, but looks back a year or two later slightly embarrassed wondering what the fuss was really about. Then you have the pieces of shit, that were either good ideas poorly executed, or just bad ideas full stop. And you have your cast-iron classics, the stuff that makes you glad you're still a gamer.

And anyway, what's the big hang up with beating on the odd (pretend) hooker? Can be quite relaxing occasionaly. You seem to have a fixation on the word 'smut' by the way. Something on your mind dude?

[DEL]

Will they die out? - Can't say for sure.?. They are and have always been a Japanese phenomenon (the playable ones that is). For the most part, the Japanese are the only people who care to program them.

What if THE BIG Earthquake hits Japan? Such an earthquake is slated to happen after all.

We are living in a rapidly changing World - the Death of Arcades is a Testament to this. (I've been told that the UK's Labour Government wants to shut all the UK Arcades and replace them with Las Vegas style Casinos - Large Secret Donations for such a purpose have apparently been backhanded to the current Administration ).

- I'm digressing, but if the arcades can be allowed to die out completely with Big Brother's help, then the same fate can be handed to the niche market of 2D shoot'em ups. After all, large Western companies don't make them, thereby not receiving any money from them. Well then...why not squeeze them out?

All Doom and Gloom eh? Well, its already come to the point where we find it difficult to 'explain' to other people what shoot'em ups are.

Or...

On a happier note, the 'resurgance' may happen

[ST Dragon]

Any way

Are you Icelandic or retarded? Dude, for your sake, just shut the fuck up and go away before you make even more of a fool out of yourself.

Yes! I'm from Iceland! It's cold here!

...Anyway, what does your racist self have against people from Iceland, anyway? You talk out your ass and seize the opportunity to include a racist remark. Who is making a fool out of themself?

Heh...funny kid. You think you know the way it is, just sit there and talk out your asshole and sling your insults and that's the way it is. You can say whatever the hell you want, you're just a couple lines of text on some website on the internet to me. You're somebody that I'm never going to meet, and you're not going to affect my life in any way. You basically mean zero to me. I've got more important things on my mind. Well, you at least spelled all of your words right when talking out your ass, unlike the last guy. We're making some progress.

As far as pessimism, what is the title of this message. "Do you think shmups will completely die out." Really optimistic there...
Ah well, I believe I've made my point clear as well, I've supplied plenty of reasons why I don't like grand theft auto and its various clones, ripoffs, and wannabes. I'm not saying "the sky is falling" or any shit like that, I just don't like the current state of the business.

I guess I'm just a cranky old man, when it comes to video games. I'll be playing my NES and SNES until the day that I die. Also, don't take anything I say TOO seriously, I may seem a bit opinionated at times, but that doesn't mean that I don't have respect for other peoples opinions. I'm not the type of person that gets frustrated when somebody has a different opinion than me and starts talking out my ass and says BLAH BLAH BLAH SHUT THE FUCK UP AND GO AWAY BLAH BLAH BLAH. You get really pissed off over little things on the internet, mariah, maybe you should go out and try some new things, if things on the internet make you that angry.

I don't know why but somehow I've connected Iceland with Shmups & the Darius Series in particular.

Somehow it would be a perfect level for a shmup, as it combines Ice cold landscapes, a vast ocean & volcanoes all in one.

Don’t get me wrong of course.

[azmun]

And about graphics, 2D is far from maxed out yet (and honestly current consoles don't even have particularly good hardware for 2D games). Mushihime will probably be pushing the PS2's limits when it comes to handling sprites. People will be whining about low resolution in the game, but honestly the PS2 would probably not been able to handle the game if it had been highresolution. What I'm saying is that even graphically there is plenty that can be improved even for 2D games.

Interesting thoughts although I don't completely agree with you. I'd say graphics both 2d and 3d have hit close to saturation. In fact, I doubt the jump to the newer consoles will reveal anything huge. In terms of current systems handling high res graphics, if the 2d fighting scene was capable of handling them (i.e. Guilty Gear X series) then I see no reason why 2d shooters can't follow suit.

[sethsez]

And about graphics, 2D is far from maxed out yet (and honestly current consoles don't even have particularly good hardware for 2D games). Mushihime will probably be pushing the PS2's limits when it comes to handling sprites. People will be whining about low resolution in the game, but honestly the PS2 would probably not been able to handle the game if it had been highresolution. What I'm saying is that even graphically there is plenty that can be improved even for 2D games.

Interesting thoughts although I don't completely agree with you. I'd say graphics both 2d and 3d have hit close to saturation. In fact, I doubt the jump to the newer consoles will reveal anything huge. In terms of current systems handling high res graphics, if the 2d fighting scene was capable of handling them (i.e. Guilty Gear X series) then I see no reason why 2d shooters can't follow suit.

Eh, people have been saying graphics are hitting the upper level for the past decade and it still isn't close to happening.

The next generation of systems will be able to display in 720p. This could be a bigger leap for 2D than for 3D if developers would only take advantage of it instead of sticking with long-dead resolutions and claiming that there's nowhere else to go (I'm looking at you SNK).

[azmun]

Eh, people have been saying graphics are hitting the upper level for the past decade and it still isn't close to happening.

The next generation of systems will be able to display in 720p. This could be a bigger leap for 2D than for 3D if developers would only take advantage of it instead of sticking with long-dead resolutions and claiming that there's nowhere else to go (I'm looking at you SNK).

Really? I didn't know. I remember many years ago (in the late 90s) when people were saying we would see vast improvements (i.e. high res, high frame rate, etc.) of 2d games by 128-bit consoles. It never really did materialize. So who can blame them for thinking like this? If you look at the graphics of many 2d games, they haven't evolved much. As you pointed out, developers (SNK and Capcom games are classic examples) have been stuck using graphics based on technology of dated arcade hardware.

[Guest]

I apologize if I offended anybody. I didn't intend for this to turn into a fight, I am just very displeased by the video game industry right now and am very vocal about it.

I will not, however, apologize for hating GTA3 and what it has done to the business I love. Whether you like it or not, you have to admit that the success of GTA and the marketting of that type of game has changed the business, and it's not for the better.

I also have not memorized each and every single episode of jeopardy by heart. Who has? Besides, I always liked Roger Moore better o_O

[sethsez]

I apologize if I offended anybody. I didn't intend for this to turn into a fight, I am just very displeased by the video game industry right now and am very vocal about it.

Fair enough. I don't think anyone really got offended... some just disagreed.

I will not, however, apologize for hating GTA3 and what it has done to the business I love. Whether you like it or not, you have to admit that the success of GTA and the marketting of that type of game has changed the business, and it's not for the better.

I still disagree, though. What has it changed? The games that have tried to capitalize on GTA's success have mostly been mediocre and forgotten. Honestly, I see far, far more influence from the likes of Devil May Cry and Halo than I do from GTA on an industry-wide level. Popular series, but not a popular sub-genre, so from my perspective it looks like an experiment that failed and it'll be left to GTA to provide this kind of gameplay for the most part, and the impact it left, both in terms of content and gameplay, was already there to begin with (graphic violence is OLD in gaming, and open-ended gameplay goes back to Elite and the Ultima series).

Meh. Oh well.

[jp]

I apologize if I offended anybody. I didn't intend for this to turn into a fight, I am just very displeased by the video game industry right now and am very vocal about it.

I will not, however, apologize for hating GTA3 and what it has done to the business I love. Whether you like it or not, you have to admit that the success of GTA and the marketting of that type of game has changed the business, and it's not for the better.

I also have not memorized each and every single episode of jeopardy by heart. Who has? Besides, I always liked Roger Moore better o_O

Erm... the face of gaming got changed for the worse IMO long before GTA. Like, FFVII, EA in general, and racing games started that whole mess IMO.