Deinterlacers & upscaling units for videogame needs

[Fudoh]

I've compiled a little overview of available units with Pros and Cons for every machine. All machines included have been tested by myself on my own setup.

http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/

[D]

Nice article. I hope this can stop the madness somewhat.
Perhaps several people should work together and make one big site that has all video info for all consoles, all possibilities, etc.
Anyway, a few thoughts/suggestions

-Capcom Fighting Jam has 480p mode, so no need for any processing.
-I'd be hardpressed surprised if your set up can do a better job with ps1 games than a ps3 upscaling the ps1 game to 1080p with smoothing set to OFF. Please try Metal Slug X with that.
Metal Slug is a normal 240p game or not? You talk about de-interlacing it.

What systems outputs this? "linedoubled PAL (576p@50Hz)" The ps3, but the ps3 also has 480p, etc. so what's the point?
Why? would you not have your systems modded to run 60 hz in the first place?

All this equipment is nice, but expensive, why not just buy originals. Metal Slug X mvs is something like 25 euros. It will never look better than any port. I have it and it looks ace. Still has heaps and heaps of slowdown in it.

Also there are ways to make 480i ps2 games run @ 480p.
-hack the code
-hb blaze converter thingie for ps2
-Infinity modchip

I would try this route before trying to alter the signal after it leaves a console.

(-ps3 does not count because it will only upscale it, making it look hardly any better.)

Also, there is a way to measure lag.
http://www.tetrisconcept.com/forum/view ... f=1&t=1162

My Sony 720p tv has trouble with 480p VGA 60 hz 60FPS. This particularly notable with Zero Gunner 2, during fast scrolling (over the water) and I never tried the component, but I imagine that the component inputs would not struggle as much. I can't prove it, just a hunch. Heck maybe it depends on the model.


Also, warning Strider77 is approaching fast

[Fudoh]

-Capcom Fighting Jam has 480p mode, so no need for any processing.

good to know, it was just an example for a 480i fighting game.

-I'd be hardpressed surprised if your set up can do a better job with ps1 games than a ps3 upscaling the ps1 game to 1080p with smoothing set to OFF. Please try Metal Slug X with that.

I have, I know the look. You can never achieve a signal as sharp as the 1080p PS3 output using an original PS1/2. The "look" of it though is very "emulated", it's completely different from what people might want, e.g. a XRGB2 with scanline emulation.

Metal Slug is a normal 240p game or not? You talk about de-interlacing it.

That's the point. It's just a 15khz to 31khz linedoubling, but the problem is that most devices will try to deinterlace and produce weird stuff by doing that.

What systems outputs this? "linedoubled PAL (576p@50Hz)" The ps3, but the ps3 also has 480p, etc. so what's the point?
Why? would you not have your systems modded to run 60 hz in the first place?

I can think of two scenarios: a modded PAL PS2. The bootup screen and menu comes in 50Hz, so you won't get a picture if your VGA port won't accept 576p50.
Scenario two are basic 50Hz 576i. Of course it's not important for US gamers, but I can imagine that most European gamers have some 576i games 3D games which don't offer a 60Hz mode.

All this equipment is nice, but expensive, why not just buy originals. Metal Slug X mvs is something like 25 euros. It will never look better than any port.

of course you're right. There was little point in choosing MSX PS1 for my test, it could have been ANY PS1 240p game.

Also there are ways to make 480i ps2 games run @ 480p.
-hack the code
-hb blaze converter thingie for ps2
-Infinity modchip

Are there really patches out there to get ISOs patched to 480p ? I know the 240p patches for the Taito Cave games, but never heard of soft-patching to 480p.

I've tried the other two and they are cheap, but won't work on all games, so the "average" game might not like those very much.

Also, there is a way to measure lag.
http://www.tetrisconcept.com/forum/view ... f=1&t=1162

I have actually measuring quite some of the devices by using a video splitter and routing one line into a CRT and one line into the LCD or deinterlacers. I'm using a virtual stop watch. Then just take a photo of both screens at the same time and here you go...

My Sony 720p tv has trouble with 480p VGA 60 hz 60FPS. This particularly notable with Zero Gunner 2, during fast scrolling (over the water) and I never tried the component, but I imagine that the component inputs would not struggle as much. I can't prove it, just a hunch. Heck maybe it depends on the model.

No problem here, DC via VGA (with ZG2) on a 1080p Bravia LCD, but you're right. A signal a little off the VESA timing might already produce stutter. The DC's VGA signal is also a bit strong from the voltage level, which might cause problems as well.

Also, warning Strider77 is approaching fast

I think we're on the same side. A XRGB2+ gives the most CRT-like picture on a HDTV set when fed with 240p material. There are better solutions for 480i material though.

[Jockel]

-Infinity modchip

Details please. I have one and didn't know it's possible force 480p.

[Fudoh]

Screenshots added.

Details please. I have one and didn't know it's possible force 480p.

Go into your Infinity setup, there you can force the output to VGA. You need a VGA cable though. It won't work with a Component cable.

[D]

-Infinity modchip

Details please. I have one and didn't know it's possible force 480p.

Sorry, I know nothing about it except some bits like, the compatibility iss the same as the blaze hd thing and works roughly the same.
I want to say that I encourage people to patch games to make them better. It's a beautiful thing. They criple ports on purpose to make not arcade perfect. It's a great thing that it is somehow possible to de-criple them.

The thing I said about Strider77 approaching fast was not a warning at all, but I was quoting Darius.

[Jockel]

Screenshots added.

Details please. I have one and didn't know it's possible force 480p.

Go into your Infinity setup, there you can force the output to VGA. You need a VGA cable though. It won't work with a Component cable.

that sucks, i only have a component cable -.-
@D: Those patches do nothing for me, since i am using a HDTV :/

[CC_Devil]

Hey Tobias,

Great article!
I have the XRGB2+ and the iScan Pro and it kinda makes me feel better that there are crazier people than me out there

I have a question on the iScan Pro 240p bug: I have played FF7 (240p PS1 game) on my PS2 through it and I didn't see the bug. Do you think the PS2 interlaced the signal prior to sending it to the iScan?

And finally some constructive criticism: could you please change the red titles to something less aggressive? It looks really weird on grey to me.

Thanks!

[Fudoh]

The PS2 (at least the slim) interlaces the Video and S-Video output, but not the component or RGBS output. It's still not the most common 240p signal though. There are many games which don't show the 240p, but it's there. I don't know what triggers it. A friend of mine had the iScan HD and sold it because of the bug. I will ask him for a few more examples of games which showed this deinterlacing error.

The screenshot I took (blue screen) was taken from the Sega Ages video settings menu (any new Ages with 240p/480i/480p switch). If you have one of those you can test it.

[D]

@D: Those patches do nothing for me, since i am using a SDTV :/

I think that that is what you mean, right?
Or?
*confused*

[CC_Devil]

Fudoh,

Thanks for the reply.
I have a few Sega Ages discs so I'll test them when I go back to Europe where my gear is.

I'm not sure if the fact that it was a PS1 disc made a difference, but I think I did use the filtering option in the emulation settings of the PS2 BIOS.
I'll try without it and also on a real PSX.

Thanks for changing the color of the titles, it's much better!