So did Phelps "win" 8 gold medals or was it a gift

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Super Laydock
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So did Phelps "win" 8 gold medals or was it a gift

Post by Super Laydock »

Like probably anyone even remotely interested in sports I was fascinated by the "quest for gold" by Michael Phelps.

But I couldn't believe the 1st place being given to him in his men's 100-meter butterfly race, as for me it looked like Milorad Cavic was the first to touch the base.

Let me first say that I am an utmost admirer for the extraordinary accomplishment of mr. Phelps, outclassing most everyone by far and getting the most gold medals ever on the Olympics (deservedly!).

But this left me with some doubt, and apparently I am not the only one.

Any thoughts?

How far can conspiracy theories go? Or is there some sort of truth in some of them? :?
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Post by jonny5 »

i dunno about conspiracy theories but those pictures clearly show that other swimmer beat him.....both hands touching before phelps

pretty fucked up if you ask me....

and the fact that phelps is sponsored by the same company that is also the official timekeeper.....seems awfully shady to me
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Post by Super Laydock »

jonny5 wrote:i dunno about conspiracy theories but those pictures clearly show that other swimmer beat him.....both hands touching before phelps

pretty fucked up if you ask me....

and the fact that phelps is sponsored by the same company that is also the official timekeeper.....seems awfully shady to me
afaik he WAS sponsored by them and not atm. Still an uncomfortably and awkward coincidence.

My trust in the IOC has reached lowest levels ever since the last months or so.

Also, how about this?

Can't say anything pro or against that allegation but if it were true aren't we all fooled around by these kind of MEGA events anyway?
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Post by Dave_K. »

I'm sick of hearing about Phelps, but will say this, he won. There is no human judging involved like in gymnastics with subjective points and whatnot. Its an electronic sensor that tells who hits the wall first. If there was true conspiracy to rig the race they would NOT have made it that close.

I was in disbelief as well watching the race real time on TV - it clearly looked like Cavic made it there just before Phelps, but in the replay, you can clearly see Cavic just glides in and stoped propelling himself, while Phelps was continuing to propell him self as if going through the wall. Individual photos don't show the inertia, which Phelps clearly had over Cavic at the end to win it.

Anyway, just my opinion.
Last edited by Dave_K. on Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Damocles »

It's hard to argue with automated time-keeping. Tampering definately isn't out of the question, however.

That being said, I have to laugh at the site in the original post.
And, finally, WE also DEMAND that somebody in the U.S. organizes a swimmimg event which would feature another race just between Michael Phelps and Milorad Cavic.
By god, they DEMAND it.


From what I saw (for what that's worth) Cavic was floating in while Phelps was still paddling. Probably due to timing strokes. Did Cavic hit the timing pad properly? Dunno, since I don't know where they're supposed to touch.
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Post by Super Laydock »

Dave_K. wrote: If there was true conspiracy to rig the race they would NOT have made it that close.
That would mean both parties agreed to a set up, which from Cavic point of view would make no sense. So this is basically a non argument.
I was in disbelief as well watching the race real time on TV - it clearly looked like Cavic made it there just before Phelps, but in the replay, you can clearly see Cavic just glides in and stopped propelling himself, while Phelps was continuing to propel him self as if going through the wall. Individual photos don't show the inertia, which Phelps clearly had over Cavic at the end to win it.
I am inclined to agree, but think the controversy is understandable.
How are these sensors calibrated anyway, and by whom? Are they checked by indifferent 3rd parties?

Even with doubts here, he still would be the best Olympist ever.

The thing with the Chinese gymnastic girl is something I have more doubts about though given the looks of the girls and the "evidence".
Asian girls mostly do look younger than they are though, so again I am not putting my hand in some fire for the claim of her being underage.
Last edited by Super Laydock on Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Udderdude »

How could you meanies take away a medal from the guy? Look how happy he is.

Image

And you wouldn't like him when he's angry, either .. >_>
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Post by jonny5 »

fuck the timer...look at the picture:

Image

cavic is touching the wall and phelps clearly IS NOT

hmmmmm.....now tell me he won
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Post by Dave_K. »

jonny5 wrote:fuck the timer...look at the picture
LOL, the overhead shot is distorted by the wave of water, you have to see the pic from underneath. And underneath, they both reach the sensor at the same time as far as the human eye can see. Pitty Cavic glided in thinking he already won it, and pointed his hands upward to press his palms against the sensor rather than finger tips.
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Post by jonny5 »

Dave_K. wrote:
jonny5 wrote:fuck the timer...look at the picture
LOL, the overhead shot is distorted by the wave of water, you have to see the pic from underneath. And underneath, they both reach the sensor at the same time as far as the human eye can see. Pitty Cavic glided in thinking he already won it, and pointed his hands upward to press his palms against the sensor rather than finger tips.
but that is going under the assupmtion that both shots were taken at the same instant.....the underwater shot is a tiny bit sooner.....you can tell cuz even phelps is farther from the wall in that shot

see:

Image
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Post by Damocles »

I would like to see video from the angle of that picture. It would clear up a lot of controversy.

When looking at the picture, you have to remember that Cavic was coasting in, while Phelps was still mid-stroke. In that picture they're almost exactly even. Things become interesting when you factor in momentum.
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Post by Neon »

that picture doesn't prove anything

I wish I were Phelps so I could bathe in money a la Scrooge McDuck
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Post by jonny5 »

im not using it to prove anything....just to show dave k. that the underwater shot is not at the same moment as the other....

dunno why im even arguing this point.....

i could give 2 shits about the olympics and even less about this phelps guy.....

i could be playing mushi right now

:lol:
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Post by Dave_K. »

Damocles wrote:I would like to see video from the angle of that picture. It would clear up a lot of controversy.
I'm surprised you people haven't seen this. I had to sit through what seemed like an hour of coverage after the race was over (my wife was glued to the set) and they showed the time lapse pictures from underneath leading up to the touch. From about a second to a half second to the touch there was so much intertia from Phelps because he got in a half stroke...thats why this pic from that stupid website looks so whack. Why doesn't the website show all the pictures? LOL scam.

[update] well here is the touch photo at least. You can see the difference where Cavic was just gliding in with not as much inertia as Phelps.
http://olympics.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/ ... to-finish/
[/update]

Stupid, I hate talking about this, agree its a waste of time.
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Post by Necronopticous »

Phelps has hacks.
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Post by Icarus »

Necronopticous wrote:Phelps has hacks.
Wallhacks?
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Post by Stormwatch »

Image
Image
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Post by Damocles »

Damnit, I DEMAND a rematch!


Also, GG pic is the best thing I've seen all day.
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Post by Ed Oscuro »

This was old news when Cavic's coach put in the protest (that guy is going to replace Phelp's coach in Ann Arbor, and Phelps + his coach are going down to Baltimore, I think).

Mark Spitz says he woulda gotten more medals if these events were around back in his day...he's probably right, but Phelps also has faster times (of course there's the differences in swimsuits and training, soo).
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Post by Neon »

Cavic and Phelps should fight
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Post by jonny5 »

Stormwatch wrote:Image
OMG.....agreed....funniest pic of the day.....thread over
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Post by sikraiken »

Conspiracy theories, haha. When things are as CLEAR as this...well, I guess people never surprise me. Phelps was just wearing jammers too, not the Speedo LZR racer. Also, Cavic just did the 100m butterfly. How many did Phelps do again...?


From that 100thofasecond.com:

"Finally, we can't help but to spotlight the emotional immaturity of the man himself. After the race Michael Phelps commented how he found an extra motivation before the race in the Cavic's statements that it would be good for the sport of swimming if Phelps lost. Whaaaat? This implies that Phelps thinks that nobody should say anything? That nobody should have their own right to exist and win? That the competitors should say nothing and instead should simply bow in front of his hyped-up "majesty"? Sadly, like every other red-white-and-blue delusional outthere that believes everything he reads -- Michael Phelps, too -- exhibits symptoms of that infamous and stereotypical "ugly American" condition."

Hmm, I sense some bias here. It's awesome he found extra motivation when people are trash talking. Wait, let him just sit back and take it.


http://www.100thofasecond.com/rules-don ... phelps.jpg

This is a poor angle picture nonetheless, but you can see that at least Cavic's left hand is not touching the wall, possibly both. Phelps has his hands at a weird angle with light reflection. Remember, Phelps was also throwing his arms forward while still moving forward, Cavic is just gliding. Do people realize how short a hundreth of a second is?


"The greatest whatever athlete of all-time can't bear to look the truth in the eyes."

http://www.100thofasecond.com/cant-stand-to-look.jpg

Haha, what a joke. If you watch video footage, you can see he did look at him. It was a quick interaction probably for the reason of the trash talking above.

Give me a break. People say these types of things just to stir something up.
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Post by Ceph »

When there is nothing to talk about, then you make something up.
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Post by t0yrobo »

Whatever, I'm just surprised that after 2 Olympics of the mens us swimming doing great that mens swimming is nearly nonexistent in most high school as far as I know.
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Post by PC Engine Fan X! »

The IOC had to resort to using such fancy A/V equipment to determine just exactly who won down to 1/500th of a second -- some serious and mucho pricey A/V equipment that is. Even there have been times when Twin Galaxies has had to resort to fancy A/V equipement to determine if such ace arcade game players were cheating or not -- one player had resorted to using such insider "bug" tricks to gain higher scores than if played a game through normal PCB distribution. Sometimes, it takes a carefully trained eye to spot out such discrepancies/errors.



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Post by jormungand »

Wasn't there another swimming event where a woman from the US lost by .01 of a second?

If they didn't have the sensors I may have wondered, but after watching the videos and pictures, he had more momentum, and the other guy was just coasting in.
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Post by PC Engine Fan X! »

jormungand wrote:Wasn't there another swimming event where a woman from the US lost by .01 of a second?
Yes, that is true.
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Post by Nuke »

Image

There's clearly some foul play at work. Just look at the reflection in the helmet!
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Post by FIL »

Looking at it frame by frame helps
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Post by PC Engine Fan X! »

For Nuke,

That pic of Phelps posing with a Taco Bell branded taco is priceless...lmao!

For Phelps to finally beat a 36 year old Olympic record of seven gold medals in the swimming category held by former Modesto, CA native Mark Spitz, that really is something else. ^_~

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