About Microsoft rejection of Cave shooters for XBLA!!!

[adrenalinq]

As you all know this year we got frustrating news that Microsoft rejected Cave arcade games from Live Arcade.
http://www.xbox360fanboy.com/2008/03/28 ... bla-by-ms/
With global and friends-only scoring system xbox360 could become a must-have for all Cave fans. But who is responsible for this crazy rejecting? Now we got a name!

David Edery - Worldwide Games Portfolio Planner for Xbox Live Arcade

Yeah - this is THE MAN who is incompetent enough to call Cave games "faithless arcade ports". The best thing is that he has a blog. I am not asking to decline word "f*ck" in comments but we can comment and mail him to death or force him to reconsider. Maybe someday he will understand that there are a lot of fans and this games must exist with HD graphics as a downloadable content of XBLA.

His blog
http://www.edery.org

[system11]

My mail to him:

Hi, I just read an article which mentions that Cave had wanted to bring some of their arcade games to XBLA, but this request was refused on the basis of them being pure arcade ports.

I have three points to make about this.

1) That's the sole reason I (and many others) were actually interested in XBLA in the first place. A lot of the original games are .. well, not great. In fact many are just poorly imitating gameplay elements found in actual arcade games. The service is not called 'X-Box Live Casual Gaming', there's an expectation of real arcade titles. Some of the ones you have accepted were excellent after all (Ikaruga, Triggerheart Exelica).

2) Cave isn't just 'any' arcade company. They produce what are generally regarded by fans as some of the very best arcade shooters ever created. In the annual top 25 shooters voting at my forum (one of the largest for this genre outside of Japan), they always take several of the top 10 slots, and usually 1st place too. You'd actually sell systems to some of these people just for one or two key titles such as Ketsui.

3) I'm struggling to see how variety is a problem for Microsoft. Even if the titles appeal to a niche, why would you want to restrict them? The only reason I could think of would be due to content navigation problems, and that's hardly game producers faults.

It seems the boat has already sailed for the titles in question, but please reconsider the alleged decision to reduce the number of arcade ports - it's certainly not what many of us wanted from the service. Such a shame, people have been crying out for a Ketsui port for literally years, and now because it's been pushed over to a retail release, we can't play it without importing a Japanese system due to region locks.

For your reference, the article in question is here:
http://www.xbox360fanboy.com/2008/03/28 ... bla-by-ms/

[sven666]

I am not asking to decline word "f*ck" in comments but we can comment and mail him to death or force him to reconsider.

haha yeah good luck with that

[system11]

I don't think bombarding him will help, but a few careful mails might help a little with future titles.

Maybe.

...

[Momijitsuki]

I don't think bombarding him will help, but a few careful mails might help a little with future titles.

Maybe.

...

Don't count on it.

[neorichieb1971]

I'm sure a financial element came into the decision. Cave probably wanted to sell it for alot of points. I'm positive the rejection was due to the backlash microsoft would have got if a person was expecting a major major 3D game for that kind of points.

Its just speculation but i'm sure thats alot to do with it.

[Kiken]

I'm sure a financial element came into the decision. Cave probably wanted to sell it for alot of points. I'm positive the rejection was due to the backlash microsoft would have got if a person was expecting a major major 3D game for that kind of points.

Its just speculation but i'm sure thats alot to do with it.

Cave weren't the ones selling it. 5pb was. I'm pretty sure they would have asked a standard 800 space dollars for the ports they were working on.

Now, how much 5pb paid Cave to get the licensing, we'll probably never know.

[subcons]

And I honestly wouldn't want a high res rework of those games.

Well, maybe if it was done right...

[adrenalinq]

I guess with XBLA "overwhelmeing number of current and future releases" he has time to read this.

This rejestions (not just this one) are made just because gaming and fan community just say "Oh, Okay" and keep silence.

[retre]

In my case at least I'm happy with the posibility of buy a traditional game. I know the XBLA is the best option and all we can buy the game cheap and without to buy another system (plus the shipping cost) but you know, If I can choose I preffer the game with his box, the booklet, etc.

Anyway, it's sad for the fans but for the genre is really disapointing.

[Ed Oscuro]

Yeah - this is THE MAN who is incompetent enough to call Cave games "faithless arcade ports".

Where did he say that?

The article says this:

[...] There they rejected all of our proposals saying, 'We are going to cut down faithful arcade ports.'

[Ganelon]

You have to wonder why they didn't just take it to PS3 instead, unless SCEJ is just as blind nowadays, which is reasonable to believe.

[subcons]

You have to wonder why they didn't just take it to PS3 instead, unless SCEJ is just as blind nowadays, which is reasonable to believe.

It seems like devs don't like making games for the PS3. At least, that's the impression I get. More costly and/or time consuming maybe? That's not good for games of this nature.

[gennss]

...

The only games i've bought have been rez and ikaruga... they're shooting themselves.

[D]

You have to wonder why they didn't just take it to PS3 instead, unless SCEJ is just as blind nowadays, which is reasonable to believe.

Yeah exactly, Sumo is releasing an arcade racer GTI Club on PSN in november!
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=21776

[lgb]

Cave on the Wii please.

[Motorherp]

After reading various comments on the different forums and sites this has been reported on it seems that there is actualy a lot of people who agree with this decision to not port these games. However amongst those who agree it seems the general opinion being held is "we want something new, not some stuffy old game rehashes". Unfortunately the majority of console gamers are under the impression that arcade ports equates only to old classic games, the kind of stuff that's been rehashed a million times already. Chances are that the people at Microsoft making this decision probably think along the same lines and are willing to paint all arcade games with the same brush.

It's sad that this is no where near the truth. New arcade games easily match and in some cases surpass the technical acheivements and polish of modern console games. After all, the reason that Cave ports stopped in the first place is because the requirements to run those games started to surpass the ability of the PS2. It's a great shame that Arika found themselves in a position where they didn't feel they could overcome the hurdles of next gen console development, but that's a different story.

Thing is though, I dont think you can actualy blame these people. After all arcades have been all but dead in Europe and America for a long time now so they dont know any better. It's really no supprise given this and also the continual bombardment of old classic rehashes that people would feel this way. Unfortunately I dont think trying to educate people in this matter will make any difference, after all the argument works both ways. From Microsofts point of view they could easily argue what the point of supporting arcade games on XBLA is since there is a lack of interest in arcade gaming in their major territories, evident by the fact that the arcades have died.

That's my 2 pence worth anyway.

[lgb]

Which I think is why these games should get ported to begin with, because arcade gaming outside Japan is dead.

[Motorherp]

Which I think is why these games should get ported to begin with, because arcade gaming outside Japan is dead.

I absolutely agree with you that it would be amazing and in the best interests of getting more people into these great games and preserving the scene. From a business point of view though, Microsoft has to play to the market and so supporting these ports over using their resources else where on something that is more focussed on the current market trend makes little sense for them. Sad but true.

Edit: It's all quite hypocritical really considering that a Galaga rehash just made it onto XBLA ;p. I wonder how well these Cave port ideas would have been received by Microsoft if it had been pitched to them along the lines of "We have these really successful arcade games that we want to remake and improve for XBLA" rather than "We have these really successful arcade games that we want to faithfully port for the fans". Thing is, they probably wouldn't have had to touch up much to meet XBLA standards, just enough to give the impression it was a new improved version. They probably could have even of included a 'classic' mode ;p

Edit edit: Come to think of it it probably wouldn't have made any difference. The real message that Microsoft is trying to get across is that they actualy want people to make rehashes of old classic arcade games which pull on peoples nostalgia strings and suck them into buying, but with fancy new graphics so people dont turn their noses up at them. New arcade games hold little interest for them since the names ring no bells with most console gamers due to them having no fond memories of those games.

Edit edit edit: Sorry about this, I should really think things through before posting ;p. Anyway, going back to the first edit, I wonder what difference it would have made if Cave had simply neglected to mention that these were arcade games, but infact implied they were new games they were making for XBLA. Of course they wouldn't have been able to get away with it but I wonder what the reception at Microsoft would have been after playing the 'concept demos'.

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

After all, the reason that Cave ports stopped in the first place is because the requirements to run those games started to surpass the ability of the PS2.

I dunno about this.

Said the same thing about Ketsui on the PS2, that the PS2 wouldn't allow them to do what they needed to do.

And then they stuck it on the DS, a system that's much less powerful.

[clp]

buh? ds ketsui have you seen it ? its no where near the quality of the arcade version or the port ps2 was trying to achieve .

[jonny5]

ketsui death label for the DS is NOT ketsui......it is a boss attack type game based around the bosses from ketsui....and the bullet patterns have been altered to run better on the DS.....it is not a 1:1 port at all

[RuffNEC]

SO THIS Means we won't get Dodonpachi and Ketsui for the Xbox 360 ? I always tought that the will came out on DVD ?!

[jonny5]

yes they are going to be released as retail games....they were rejected as xbox live titles.....so the developer switched to a retail release instead....

only down side to this is you will either need a japanese region 360 or a modded one

oh well....release the port so the PCB will drop in price and relative rarity so i can buy it....

[spongdangly]

yes they are going to be released as retail games....they were rejected as xbox live titles.....so the developer switched to a retail release instead....

only down side to this is you will either need a japanese region 360 or a modded one

I don't think that a modded US or PAL console can play JPN region games.

[Kaspal]

yes they are going to be released as retail games....they were rejected as xbox live titles.....so the developer switched to a retail release instead....

only down side to this is you will either need a japanese region 360 or a modded one

I don't think that a modded US or PAL console can play JPN region games.

true, so far, theres no way you can run JAP games on a PAL or US X360... and thats a shame, since there has been a couple releases that i'd pay my hard earned money if they were region free... but well, life wont end if i dont play'em anyway.

[Ex-Cyber]

You have to wonder why they didn't just take it to PS3 instead, unless SCEJ is just as blind nowadays, which is reasonable to believe.

It seems like devs don't like making games for the PS3. At least, that's the impression I get. More costly and/or time consuming maybe? That's not good for games of this nature.

Xbox 360 basically uses DirectX (indeed, "Xbox" originated as a play on "DirectX box"), so as I understand it developers can prototype and/or initially release a game for Windows or a Windows-based arcade system (Type-X etc.), and then the 360 port is mostly a matter of being less sloppy about RAM/disk use and tweaking the graphics stuff as much as seems worthwhile; most of the crucial APIs stay the same. The PS3 SDK reportedly supports some well-known APIs like OpenGL, Cg, etc. but DirectX is far more well-known in game development circles (OpenGL is certainly usable for games, but it's more the standard for professional apps) and it's easier to find game programmers experienced with it. Also, there's nothing really like Cell's SPEs on a PC unless you feel like spending $8000 on a PCIe card that has a Cell on it.

[escadrille]

yes they are going to be released as retail games....they were rejected as xbox live titles.....so the developer switched to a retail release instead....

only down side to this is you will either need a japanese region 360 or a modded one

I'm actually pleased by this news. I prefer a packaged game to DLC when available.

[Kaspal]

yes they are going to be released as retail games....they were rejected as xbox live titles.....so the developer switched to a retail release instead....

only down side to this is you will either need a japanese region 360 or a modded one

I'm actually pleased by this news. I prefer a packaged game to DLC when available.

most of us preffer it that way too, problem here is, since most japanese games are region locked, most of us wont have the chance to try the games...

[jonny5]

but will it play backups of japanese region games?

not that i would condone that.....but if it would work i would probably buy the game just to have and play a back up.....

i dont have a 360, modded or otherwise, but my neighbor has a modded one

i would still buy the PCB over the port if i could get it for less than 2 weeks pay......