So I played the new TouHou game

[escadrille]

I think the Touhou games are technically respectable. Room for debate and improvement but not junk. Still, some people (myself included) can't get over the whole anime schoolgirl thing. Just looks like a gateway drug into the whole sad world of hentai.

[Momijitsuki]

I think the Touhou games are technically respectable. Room for debate and improvement but not junk. Still, some people (myself included) can't get over the whole anime schoolgirl thing. Just looks like a gateway drug into the whole sad world of hentai.

So what, you're saying it would have a larger fanbase if the Touhou series was sans loli? But that's part of what makes Touhou what it is! I think the gothic lolita styles in the game are-- while quite clichéd at this point-- a refreshing change of aesthetics in a genre primarily dominated by spaceships, planes, jets, helicopters, etc.

[GrimoreLibrarian]

You still got the mythologies and surrealisim to look into for shmup ideas.

[Taylor]

It's gaudy, but even the DDP spaceships turn into lolita's now, I don’t get why this is the crux.

[Observer]

It's gaudy, but even the DDP spaceships turn into lolita's now, I don’t get why this is the crux.

True.

Or Mushihime, Ibara, Espgaluda, Esp.Ra.De, Guwange, HellSinker, Trouble Witches, the new G-Rev game, Otomedius, Parodius, Twinbee, Gunbird, Trigger Heart Exelica, Twinkle Star Sprites, Radirgy, Karous (althoguh they have mechs the main characters are girls as far as I can recall), Death Smiles, there is a Hatsune Miku stg that came out recently (Hector 39), Bike Banditz, Hitogata Happa, Diadra Empty...

Is it necessary to continue? They all feature a mix of everything, including surrealism and they are far from the 'dark gritty space shooter'. In fact, the 'dark gritty space shooters' are becoming the rare ones. The tables have turned in Japan long time ago. Just step into Doujinshop or White Canvas. You'll hardly see anything that isn't little girls, cute/pretty girls with big eyes and those hentai games cluttering everything.

Oddly enough, Touhou games actually stand out from them for having only a shadow on their covers and excellent, colourful palettes (except EoSD, whose colours are... well, not my taste)


Oh, and even games like Under Defeat (helicopter), Giga Wing (airships), Psyvariar 2 (mecha), Progear (airplane) or Border Down (spaceship) have their own doses of uniqueness to stand out from the stereotype.

For pure animé schoolgirl hentai little girl cute horror: check Rayging Blues pilots or Trouble Witches 2 sailor schoolgirl outfit designs. (this exceeds the game field and goes into artistic designs and personal preferences so, please, bear with me)

That's when I appreciate ZUN's madness even more.

[escadrille]

I think the Touhou games are technically respectable. Room for debate and improvement but not junk. Still, some people (myself included) can't get over the whole anime schoolgirl thing. Just looks like a gateway drug into the whole sad world of hentai.

So what, you're saying it would have a larger fanbase if the Touhou series was sans loli? But that's part of what makes Touhou what it is! I think the gothic lolita styles in the game are-- while quite clichéd at this point-- a refreshing change of aesthetics in a genre primarily dominated by spaceships, planes, jets, helicopters, etc.

I'm not saying Touhou should do anything different. They fill a very specific gaming niche: shmup fans who dig anime schoolgirls. Outside of that niche their appeal is limited. ZUN seems to be happy doing what he's doing.

[Momijitsuki]

I think the Touhou games are technically respectable. Room for debate and improvement but not junk. Still, some people (myself included) can't get over the whole anime schoolgirl thing. Just looks like a gateway drug into the whole sad world of hentai.

So what, you're saying it would have a larger fanbase if the Touhou series was sans loli? But that's part of what makes Touhou what it is! I think the gothic lolita styles in the game are-- while quite clichéd at this point-- a refreshing change of aesthetics in a genre primarily dominated by spaceships, planes, jets, helicopters, etc.

I'm not saying Touhou should do anything different. They fill a very specific gaming niche: shmup fans who dig anime schoolgirls. Outside of that niche their appeal is limited. ZUN seems to be happy doing what he's doing.

Seeing that I fit directly into that niche, I never saw what wasn't appealing about the games, unless you:
A) hate anime or anime-styled art
B) find the patterns to be too easy and unentertaining
C) detested lolis.

[dai jou bu]

The problem comes in the nonsensical weird scoring systems like what you find Perfect Cherry Blossom; .

I can sleep peacefully now that I've found someone else agrees with me on this one. Heck, PCB was the first Touhou game I've run into, and it literally steered me away from the series because it felt like one of those countless doujin titles that wanted to be like Cave because almost everyone else in the genre forgot how to make everyhing but danmaku shmups at the time, and this was BEFORE I found out how ridiculous the scoring system was for PCB.

I also wouldn't say that Touhou is underrated at this point if new threads pop up for this almost as often as a Cave shmup in these forums.

EDIT: Also Observer, how could you forget Ether Vapor as one of the exceptions to the Goth Loli trend in shmups?

[system11]

Just looks like a gateway drug into the whole sad world of hentai.

Overreact much?

The Touhou games are very innocently presented actually, even compared to other shmups with anime chicks in - none of which are anything even resembling hentai except for Steam Hearts. I would say a few of the fans are downright creepy though, see legendary 'which character would you sleep with' topic on the Touhou site forums.

[Kaspal]

The problem comes in the nonsensical weird scoring systems like what you find Perfect Cherry Blossom; .

I can sleep peacefully now that I've found someone else agrees with me on this one. Heck, PCB was the first Touhou game I've run into, and it literally steered me away from the series because it felt like one of those countless doujin titles that wanted to be like Cave because almost everyone else in the genre forgot how to make everyhing but danmaku shmups at the time, and this was BEFORE I found out how ridiculous the scoring system was for PCB.

I also wouldn't say that Touhou is underrated at this point if new threads pop up for this almost as often as a Cave shmup in these forums.

EDIT: Also Observer, how could you forget Ether Vapor as one of the exceptions to the Goth Loli trend in shmups?

can you believe that touhou was the games that drew me into playin danmaku games, and that by the time that happened, i had NO IDEA of what CAVE was?... maybe im not so picky when it comes to games... basically i just wanna have a blast while playin, and touhou gives me that, CAVE games gives me that... heck, most shmups gives me that... so, while i still think its a matter of personal taste, i personally, LOVE touhou games, but just the games and the art... anything else, i couldnt care less (not even the music... but cant play'em w/o it).

[honorless]

It's gaudy, but even the DDP spaceships turn into lolita's now, I don’t get why this is the crux.

Well, the DFK spaceships are drawn in a way that makes them look a lot older than any Touhou girl—I wouldn't call them lolitas at all.

...What's really funny is that the character art for Cave's newest project has been revealed over at Sazanami (Siliconera link also) and it is seriously loli. I wonder how the Cave fans on shmupsforum are going to react.

can you believe that touhou was the games that drew me into playin danmaku games, and that by the time that happened, i had NO IDEA of what CAVE was?

I can, because that was what happened with me. Before then the only shooting games I played even semi-regularly were Gradius and Parodius. :D

[Momijitsuki]

It's gaudy, but even the DDP spaceships turn into lolita's now, I don’t get why this is the crux.

Well, the DFK spaceships are drawn in a way that makes them look a lot older than any Touhou girl—I wouldn't call them lolitas at all.

...What's really funny is that the character art for Cave's newest project has been revealed over at Sazanami (Siliconera link also) and it is seriously loli. I wonder how the Cave fans on shmupsforum are going to react.

That is awesome. That is my reaction.

can you believe that touhou was the games that drew me into playin danmaku games, and that by the time that happened, i had NO IDEA of what CAVE was?

I can, because that was what happened with me. Before then the only shooting games I played even semi-regularly were Gradius and Parodius.

It was the opposite for me. After Necronopticous told me about Mushihime-sama, I desperately wanted to play it, but I couldn't, because there are no MAME ports for it. So instead, he sent me DoDonPachi, ESP Ra.De., and Guwange. While searching around the internet some time later, I saw a picture of a game that had a pretty pattern on the screen with a cute girl as the playable character. It was the Touhou series, and I ended up downloading all of them.

[Observer]

EDIT: Also Observer, how could you forget Ether Vapor as one of the exceptions to the Goth Loli trend in shmups?

Oh, no excuses... I have the freaking gamebox in front of me all the time... This uses the rule of forgetting about the most obvious. Argh. But yeah, EV it's also an exception, just like the game called Exception that proved cubes and boxes can be damn cool.

The problem I have with Cave is that when they go loli they just seem take the wrong road. And sometimes it's not as silly and innocent as, for example, the new G.Rev game (didn't anyone find a parallelism between that smiling ghostly water goo and the grotesque smiling little ghost from Subterranean Animism menu screen?)

Just check Mushihime 2... Rekko. Age.. 16?????? That thing screams Sex Bomb instead of Smart Bomb. If only. Give her three more years at least, dammit.

*cough*

But it's a matter of personal taste here so fighting over that would be silly. After all, I enjoy Mushi and Touhou is what put me back into STGs for sure.

[Icarus]

You obviously weren't around when Reko first burst onto the scene here (in more ways than one).
Those threads were hilarious.

[Momijitsuki]

EDIT: Also Observer, how could you forget Ether Vapor as one of the exceptions to the Goth Loli trend in shmups?

Oh, no excuses... I have the freaking gamebox in front of me all the time... This uses the rule of forgetting about the most obvious. Argh. But yeah, EV it's also an exception, just like the game called Exception that proved cubes and boxes can be damn cool.

The problem I have with Cave is that when they go loli they just seem take the wrong road. And sometimes it's not as silly and innocent as, for example, the new G.Rev game (didn't anyone find a parallelism between that smiling ghostly water goo and the grotesque smiling little ghost from Subterranean Animism menu screen?)

Just check Mushihime 2... Rekko. Age.. 16?????? That thing screams Sex Bomb instead of Smart Bomb. If only. Give her three more years at least, dammit.

*cough*

But it's a matter of personal taste here so fighting over that would be silly. After all, I enjoy Mushi and Touhou is what put me back into STGs for sure.

Reko is age 15 in the first game-- or at least I'm pretty sure. The select screen music track is called 'Mushihimesama, age 15'.

@Icarus: How were they hilarious? I wasn't around then. :p

[gennss]

wow thread is hard to follow unless you're knowledgeable about what's going on.

When who what where when burst on the scene? link?

[joeboto]

i wanna read the reco burst thread.
her voice makes me hard.

[gennss]

WHAT?!?

[Momijitsuki]

wow thread is hard to follow unless you're knowledgeable about what's going on.

When who what where when burst on the scene? link?

Reko, the main character of Mushihime-sama, a danmaku shmup by Cave, was released a few years ago. That's what.

[lgb]

You guys are going the wrong way!

[escadrille]

Just looks like a gateway drug into the whole sad world of hentai.

Overreact much?

The Touhou games are very innocently presented actually, even compared to other shmups with anime chicks in - none of which are anything even resembling hentai except for Steam Hearts. I would say a few of the fans are downright creepy though, see legendary 'which character would you sleep with' topic on the Touhou site forums.

I think the thread in question rather makes my point for me. Anyway to each their own, which is exactly why Touhou has a limited appeal for reasons other than gameplay.

[FIL]

Plus we all know the only sensible choice of sleeping partner is Keine so the whole thread is moot.

[Taylor]

Harry Potter turns kids into warlocks, Grand Theft Auto makes you shoot up your school, and now touhou turns you into a hentai enthusiast.

It's gaudy, but even the DDP spaceships turn into lolita's now, I don’t get why this is the crux.

Well, the DFK spaceships are drawn in a way that makes them look a lot older than any Touhou girl—I wouldn't call them lolitas at all.

True, I did briefly debate with myself whether Death Smiles or Mushihime would be a better, but DDP evolving (devolving?) into young girls in frilly doll/meido outfits seemed the stronger case of point.

...What's really funny is that the character art for Cave's newest project has been revealed over at Sazanami (Siliconera link also) and it is seriously loli. I wonder how the Cave fans on shmupsforum are going to react.

Ha, this made me chortle.

[Observer]

It happened in the past and it'll happen again as soon as Cave reveals their new lolitastic title.

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... &start=120

Sex does indeed sell.

[escadrille]

Harry Potter turns kids into warlocks, Grand Theft Auto makes you shoot up your school, and now touhou turns you into a hentai enthusiast.

Inaccurate comparison. Nobody is saying touhou makes you chase after real underage girls. I'm only noting that people who enjoy anime schoolgirls sometimes tend to also enjoy hentai.

[Momijitsuki]

Plus we all know the only sensible choice of sleeping partner is Keine so the whole thread is moot.

Human or Werehakutaku?

Besides, I'd rather have Patchouli or the new character Satori and DAMN IT NOW YOU HAVE ME SOUNDING LIKE A PATHETIC FANBOY.

This is why I joined an all-inclusive Shmups forum instead of a Touhou-exclusive one. Fanaticism is a scary thing.

[moozooh]

I'm only noting that people who enjoy anime schoolgirls sometimes tend to also enjoy hentai.

Which is funny because the Touhou universe contains zero schoolgirls (and no schools that I know of). :P

That aside, I should additionally stress out something that bloodflowers has said on numerous occasions: Touhou characters are always presented decently; there is not a single sexual situation, or even an innuendo thereof. Not to mention that none of them are actually drawn to [try to] look sexually attractive. Unlike said Cave games, btw. (Not that I have anything against that, but you have to separate the author's intention from the fanbase's intention.)

[GrimoreLibrarian]

I think the closest you can get to a shcool girl in touhou is that rabbit one from IN. And her bullets look like suppositories.

[Momijitsuki]

You're forgetting Chiyuri Kitashirakawa from Phantasmagoria from Dim. Dream. Hat aside, she looks just like an anime schoolgirl.

Reisen is close though.

[lgb]

It happened in the past and it'll happen again as soon as Cave reveals their new lolitastic title.

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... &start=120

Sex does indeed sell.

3 years ago. On shmups tv.