So I played the new TouHou game

[GrimoreLibrarian]

I must say, I'm really impressed. Just like the last TouHou game it seems to be less noob friendly. Lots more bullets and more tight spots. The music seems to be better this time around as well.

I heard that the final boss has a "warning message" but I refuse to look it up or play on easy mode. I also can't get past stage 5...

I'd still say TouHou should be a boss rush only type of game. Or at least throw in a boss rush mode.

[Necronopticous]

Just like the last TouHou game

[jonny5]

Just like every TouHou game

fixed

[GrimoreLibrarian]

Guessing TouHou isn't well liked here?

[Warp_Rattler]

I take by 'the latest one' you're talking about the Subterranean Animism or whatever it's called? Is the full version out yet, or did you just manage to find a demo for it?

[bsidwell]

Just like the last TouHou game it seems to be less noob friendly.

What? Mountain of Faith was probably the easiest game in the series.

[moozooh]

Well, Mountain of Faith is easy on Easy, easy on Normal, average on Hard and harder than average on Lunatic.

Also, we already have a topic for this.

Guessing TouHou isn't well liked here?

Yes, and the best part about it is that discussing something after playing it for survival for about half an hour (if at all) is as much of a norm here as it is on Touhou fansites, except the content of such discussion is an absolute opposite. Because there are about two dozen players at both sides who know how to play the games for score, even less of those who are actually doing it, and a hundred other people who just discuss and complain.

So yeah, don't mind them.

[Gungriffon Geona]

Touhou more like stupid bitches don't know how to use spell cards.

[SockPuppetHyren]

Touhou more like stupid bitches don't know how to use spell cards.

God forbid you talk about games on a gaming forum. The maturity level is high in this thread. Of course, me responding to it isn't a great course of action either...

I take by 'the latest one' you're talking about the Subterranean Animism or whatever it's called? Is the full version out yet, or did you just manage to find a demo for it?

The full game just got released yesterday. I don't have it yet myself, though. From what I hear, the game's difficulty level was raised a lot from MoF, I'll see when I play it, though.

Because there are about two dozen players at both sides who know how to play the games for score,

Not true, you're just not looking hard enough. I bet there are at least 3 dozen people who play it for score. I can't say I do, though, as I don't play most shmups other for score either. Survival is good enough for me (Especially as I suck at it).

[moozooh]

Not true, you're just not looking hard enough. I bet there are at least 3 dozen people who play it for score.

Well, I don't see them anywhere. Could you point me to the place where you found three dozen people playing for score and not failing at it absolutely horribly?

[SockPuppetHyren]

Not true, you're just not looking hard enough. I bet there are at least 3 dozen people who play it for score.

Well, I don't see them anywhere. Could you point me to the place where you found three dozen people playing for score and not failing at it absolutely horribly?

Never said I looked for them myself. You could always go the hard route and go educate people on how to play the game for score. Hell, submit some of your strategies to the Touhou Wiki, I'm sure fans would appreciate it (Unless you already did that). As surprising as it may seem, I've been to Touhou sites that contain a surplus of people that actually do play the games with some regularity. I assure you it would accomplish more than complaining about it here.

[moozooh]

Well, I'm an editor at Touhou wiki, a maintainer of three Touhou scoreboards on these forums, and was also the first to upload a Touhou superplay to super-play.co.uk (not mine, though). On the social side of things, I'm one of the first to respond when someone's having a problem with scoring in one of the games, and I also have participated in several forum discussions involving Touhou scoring. You suggest taking the hard route, but I don't know if the one I'm going with now is easy at all. It's not like I don't do anything for it; if you think so, you're just not informed well enough.

What I can't (and won't) do is making people play the games for score. It's their call, not mine. And it's not that there's a lack of information on how to do it (the wiki and all kinds of replays are easily available); it's the lack of motivation to do it from the players' side, because almost the entire Touhou fandom is actually pretty worthless at mid to high level play, but they prefer engaging in leisure fan activities such as buying Touhou merchandise, making fanart, discussing the global problems such as "which Touhou character would you sleep with" (not joking here) and so on.

Not that it's a bad thing per se, but it's the reason the games themseves aren't taken seriously by association by the more snobby part of the arcade audience, despite being an absolutely fine series with nice scoring systems. This goes together with the generic anime hate, and all other xenophobic outbursts. This dismissal averts most other people from even trying to play the games more seriously than hugging the bottom part of the screen and saying "meh it's easy, the game's super boring". Because apparently, all of them have scoring systems that actively prevent the player from doing so if they want the result to be any decent. C'est la vie?

[DMC]

"which Touhou character would you sleep with"´

I like that one, 308 replies and all!

[Frederik]

This goes together with the generic anime hate, and all other xenophobic outbursts.

I don´t think that there is a "generic anime hate" in the shmup community. I´m perfectly fine with even the most obvious T&A like in Ibara. The whole art-direction of the Touhou series is too much for me; I also could never identify with gothic lolitas as player sprites. It just feels very generic and it puts me off a lot. Just because people hate the artstyle of these games doesn´t mean they dislike anime/manga in general. I love Ghibli stuff and Dr. Slump, but little girls in maiden dress (or schoolgirl uniforms by the way) alienate me.

I played PCB and IN a couple of times "for fun" (cough) and it was actually pretty entertaining. I guess it´s just that the whole play style is very different from, say, Cave, Raizing or Psikyo games. I don´t really pay much attention to it, but my rough guess by how you described things sounds to me like the Touhou series gets most of its fans from the doujin community, not the shmup players. Comparing Touhou to other modern shmups it just feel "off", somehow - the huge playfield, the millions of blooming bullets that move very slow compared to other shmups, the dramatic piano music, and on top these girls I don´t care for... It just feels very different from arcade shmups, somehow. I lack the hectic tempo other danmaku games have. And I really don´t care for three hundred bullets on screen if 95% aren´t even aimed at me

Again, I know that there is a lot to these games and that they are made very well in their own right, and I can relate to moozoh being annoyed that the low-taste fanboys are destroying the image of these games for other players. But taste differences also play a role, and I guess many people wouldn´t like these games even if the art style and the fan community was completely different.

[SockPuppetHyren]

Well, I'm an editor at Touhou wiki, a maintainer of three Touhou scoreboards on these forums, and was also the first to upload a Touhou superplay to super-play.co.uk (not mine, though). On the social side of things, I'm one of the first to respond when someone's having a problem with scoring in one of the games, and I also have participated in several forum discussions involving Touhou scoring. You suggest taking the hard route, but I don't know if the one I'm going with now is easy at all. It's not like I don't do anything for it; if you think so, you're just not informed well enough.

Please excuse my ignorance then.

What I can't (and won't) do is making people play the games for score. It's their call, not mine. And it's not that there's a lack of information on how to do it (the wiki and all kinds of replays are easily available); it's the lack of motivation to do it from the players' side, because almost the entire Touhou fandom is actually pretty worthless at mid to high level play, but they prefer engaging in leisure fan activities such as buying Touhou merchandise, making fanart, discussing the global problems such as "which Touhou character would you sleep with" (not joking here) and so on.

"Which Touhou character would you sleep with"? Such a weak way to put it! True perverts will detail their what they would do to certain Touhoes in multi page smut fiction that may or my not include ropes, leather, and an egg sandwich!

Joking aside I can't completely disagree with this sentiment. Part of it is because a lot of Touhou fan's first shmups IS Touhou. So they wouldn't be completely knowledgeable about score systems.

Not that it's a bad thing per se, but it's the reason the games themseves aren't taken seriously by association by the more snobby part of the arcade audience, despite being an absolutely fine series with nice scoring systems. This goes together with the generic anime hate, and all other xenophobic outbursts. This dismissal averts most other people from even trying to play the games more seriously than hugging the bottom part of the screen and saying "meh it's easy, the game's super boring". Because apparently, all of them have scoring systems that actively prevent the player from doing so if they want the result to be any decent. C'est la vie?

So that explains the comments of "ALL TOUHOU GAME ARE TEH SAME!" in the incredibly unique, innovative, and fresh genre of shmups.

THis is also part of the reason I responded as such above. I was really just annoyed that someone can't bring up Touhou, in a place where any shmup should be able to be spoken of freely, without a thousand detractors complaining about fans and lolis. Only Milestone shooters get that much hate on a regular basis, and even then , you can expect to have a decent conversation about them sometimes. I really just think all the generic hate and snobbishness is just as stupid and unjustifiable as the retards that claim to be Touhou fans and don't even play the games. Maybe I'm just overreacting, but I just feel one should be able to mention a Touhou game without being roasted and whined at for it.

[moozooh]

I don´t think that there is a "generic anime hate" in the shmup community.

Not talking about shmup community in particular; it was just an example of how the internet audience doesn't see the forest behind the trees from time to time.

I don´t really pay much attention to it, but my rough guess by how you described things sounds to me like the Touhou series gets most of its fans from the doujin community, not the shmup players.

Not even as much from the doujin community as it is from various otakus, 4chan, anime imageboards and other anime-related communities, and so on. I was lucky enough to learn about the series from SDA's IRC channel (from members like stanski, mikwuyma, Enhasa, and KennyMan666 to name a few), otherwise it would take years for me to realize all these girls I see from time to time are in fact from a shooting game. The sad truth of it. :\

By the way, the possible reason it feels not very arcadeish to you is that it's a PC game, not an arcade game. ;)
As for the "huge playfield" (which isn't really huge; just barely larger than average, in fact), it likely seems so because you're not taking the full advantage of it. It's there to move around. Check the Phantasm superplay, it shows what the area servers for pretty well.

[Frederik]

So that explains the comments of "ALL TOUHOU GAME ARE TEH SAME!"

Maybe the score systems are wildly different, but there´s no denying that all games look and sound almost identical to each other. Not even Psikyo games are that similar to each other. That´s not a bad thing in itself, of course, especially considering that just one dude is making them and fans seem to love it.

in the incredibly unique, innovative, and fresh genre of shmups.

Given the tight boundaries of the genre, shmups have been and still are innovating quite a lot, so your sarcasm is a bit out of place there.

[Frederik]

I just found this nice gem on YouTube under a MOF replay btw:

BakaTsubaka (1 month ago)

so i guess since your title said 1cc that means your speed is somehow one cubic centimeter

/off topic

[SockPuppetHyren]

So that explains the comments of "ALL TOUHOU GAME ARE TEH SAME!"

Maybe the score systems are wildly different, but there´s no denying that all games look and sound almost identical to each other. Not even Psikyo games are that similar to each other. That´s not a bad thing in itself, of course, especially considering that just one dude is making them and fans seem to love it.

in the incredibly unique, innovative, and fresh genre of shmups.

Given the tight boundaries of the genre, shmups have been and still are innovating quite a lot, so your sarcasm is a bit out of place there.

Again, please excuse my internet rage and hate. I've been spending too much time in flame war pits.

Though I was mostly referring to a larger chunk of manic shooters. Sure, there are many innovative gems floating around, but many of them feel same-ish. Of course, this may be because I spend a lot of time of my shmup time playing freeware games, so that might be why.

[KennyMan666]

Y'know, I need to realize that this game has a bomb button, and that it's there for me to actually use it. Yuugi keeps screwing me over.

[GrimoreLibrarian]

Y'know, I need to realize that this game has a bomb button, and that it's there for me to actually use it. Yuugi keeps screwing me over.

That's the problem I have with all shmups, for some reason I refuse to bomb.

[Momijitsuki]

Guessing TouHou isn't well liked here?

A bit of an understatement when it comes to most of the people here.


The rest of us just ignore it and play what we want.

[jonny5]

Y'know, I need to realize that this game has a bomb button, and that it's there for me to actually use it. Yuugi keeps screwing me over.

That's the problem I have with all shmups, for some reason I refuse to bomb.

same....i play shmups for the patterns....bombing cancels the patterns.....so i dont bomb....ever.....even when i should.....doesnt seem right to me

back on topic......i can see some of the draw of touhou games.....but since its in its like 10th installment and other than scoring systems they look and play very similarly i think its been played out for long enough....perhaps ZUN simply needs to step back from touhou and say to himself....'hmm.....i need some new ideas'

i personally just find the patterns way too slow and more for show than difficulty....sure there are lots of pretty patterns, but this aint a kaleidoscope.....its a shmup

[GrimoreLibrarian]

perhaps ZUN simply needs to step back from touhou and say to himself....'hmm.....i need some new ideas'

May be he should read an old issue of Heavy Metal Magzine for inspiration.

[Observer]

I beg to differ. This is what ZUN used as the banner for his site:



So he DOES think in 'kareidoscopic' terms... or at least it seem so.

I think the whole games are a bit underrated because of the fandom and such. Don't want to get into a long discussion though since RefRain -Prism Memories- demo seems to be floating around and that only means we are getting more of the sucessor of Samidare.

edit for GrimoireLibrarian:

XXXXXX-01 - Ability: 'Manipulation of heavy metals'. Something like that? I say: drop even more surreal oddities for the next game. Diadra Empty even mocks the whole loli thing with Pedo Bear as a special item. (gotta love the sense of humour of the author)

[GrimoreLibrarian]

I mean the adult fantasy magazine that was drawn by many underground and mainstream artist. Today Heavy Metal Magazine is just sex and violence.

But ya, Zun's ideas have been getting stale since IN.

[CStarFlare]

I think of Touhou kind of like Pokemon - really good games that whose images are harmed because they are normally associated with the kinds of people you don't want to be associated with (8 year olds and creepos for Pokemon, irritating otaku and loli fans for Touhou). Both series have been going on long enough to start to seem "stale" if you're not a die-hard fan.

The analogy works well with DDR, too.

[PROMETHEUS]

I think of Touhou kind of like Pokemon - really good games that whose images are harmed because they are normally associated with the kinds of people you don't want to be associated with (8 year olds and creepos for Pokemon, irritating otaku and loli fans for Touhou). Both series have been going on long enough to start to seem "stale" if you're not a die-hard fan.

The analogy works well with DDR, too.

No clue what's good about pokemon though ^^

[moozooh]

By the way, Prometheus, wanna give this new game a shot? It's very hectic on the later levels, and thanks to the scoring system, the early ones are still very challenging to make a good score on.

[FIL]

Pokemon has lolis too.