Ketsui for DS?!

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Jockel
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Post by Jockel »

Herr Schatten wrote:Also, my launch day DS Lite was the one with the best d-pad so far.
oO That's confusing. But how do we define a "good" DSL d-pad?
One that *almost* works like the d-pad on the fat ds?
Because i've never seen a DSL with a d-pad that reaches the old DS's quality.
Not that the old DS's d-pad was above average. :wink:
Just imagine: one day we get a DSL with an 8way d-pad. But I'm just dreaming :<
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Frederik
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Post by Frederik »

Jockel wrote:
Herr Schatten wrote:Also, my launch day DS Lite was the one with the best d-pad so far.
oO That's confusing. But how do we define a "good" DSL d-pad?
When Schatten says "the d-pad is excellent" I think of SNES or GBA Micro pad quality. The one I had on my first one barely didn´t do diagonals at all and even regular direction pressing was stiff (snaking in Mariokart = PAIN). The one I have now is okay, but barely. As most people here I´m really anal about the quality of my button inputs, so I really want to get the solution to this case :wink:
Jockel wrote: Just imagine: one day we get a DSL with an 8way d-pad. But I'm just dreaming :<
It really bothers me that Nintendo seemingly cut corners on the button quality (or the "quality control" or whatever). You might be tempted to think that "Well, it´s mainly supposed to be a touchscreen console and most games don´t even use diagonal button presses most of the time", but I never heard similar complaints about the buttons on the Wii, neither Wiimote nor classic controller.
...Maybe we could modify the d-pad in a way similar to the old PSP mods?
Last edited by Frederik on Sat Aug 09, 2008 12:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Jockel
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Post by Jockel »

Well i think right now i have the same kind of d-pad that you have, Frederik.
I am also very picky when it comes to controllers, and just couldn't imagine an "excellent" d-pad on a DSL.
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Frederik
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Post by Frederik »

Here are two guides on how to fix pad issues with the PSP and the 360:

http://www.ufighterx.com/guides/videoga ... padfix.htm
http://www.ufighterx.com/guides/videoga ... padfix.htm

In both cases it isn´t an electronic problem, but merely the plastic not being thick enough or the buttons not having enough space to move. The problems on the DSL might be similar, I guess a mod could be possible (though that obviously would void the warranty). And while I prefer these circle shaped pads (Genesis, Saturn etc), I don´t think that this is the root of the problem. I used to play Batrider with an original SNES pad via a converter and it was golden.

But really, you would think that it should be sorted out how d-pads work by now. Instead they keep on getting worse with each console generation.
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Post by jpj »

Zebra Airforce wrote:
regarding the difficulty, the producer mihara has said that there will be quite a few different difficulty settings to choose from. the easiest of which will mean that (and i quote) even a woman can play it
A rather foolish thing to say, considering Dame K.K. is one of the more insanely talented players around.
yeah, i'm sure it's a dude. the "dame" bit is self-depcrecating. he used to call himself Useless Player K.K
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Post by sfried »

Jockel wrote:I am also very picky when it comes to controllers, and just couldn't imagine an "excellent" d-pad on a DSL.
I heard it depends on the "kind" of DS Lite you purchase.

Post-White/Black DSLs have fairly stiff pads that prevented horizontal and vertical directions from being pressed at the same time, while the later models seem to have no problems with diagonals and smooth fighting game motions. They did something around the corners (quite possibly the "cutting" part indeed) to loosen the "strictness" of the input. They could've further improved from that.
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Post by Frederik »

The problem is finding reliable information about that. Again, maybe the serial number might be an indication - either on the age of the system or from what factory it is coming from (as I mentioned there are hardware variations on the touch screen on models produced around the same time). Let´s keep in mind Nintendo had to keep pumping out Lites at a high frequency, so these differences might not be hardware revisions but variations coming from different facilities.
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Post by gs68 »

FrederikJurk wrote:Here are two guides on how to fix pad issues with the PSP and the 360:

http://www.ufighterx.com/guides/videoga ... padfix.htm
http://www.ufighterx.com/guides/videoga ... padfix.htm

In both cases it isn´t an electronic problem, but merely the plastic not being thick enough or the buttons not having enough space to move. The problems on the DSL might be similar, I guess a mod could be possible (though that obviously would void the warranty). And while I prefer these circle shaped pads (Genesis, Saturn etc), I don´t think that this is the root of the problem. I used to play Batrider with an original SNES pad via a converter and it was golden.

But really, you would think that it should be sorted out how d-pads work by now. Instead they keep on getting worse with each console generation.
It's because 2D games are fading out, so designers think the D-pad is irrelevant.

I bet by the 8th gen, consoles will have NO D-pads.
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Post by nZero »

Still useful for menu navigation, cursor key replacement, and the like. D-pads will remain, and will continue to be shitty.
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Post by gs68 »

Just traded in my fat red DS (which had a broken hinge and malfunctioning L button) for a brand spankin' new Crimson/Black DS Lite.

So far I've had no problems with the D-pad; I've found it easier to press diagonals on it. The buttons are also less difficult to push.
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Post by dmauro »

I have a first generation japanese DS Lite and the dpad works perfectly, although it is a little bit small.
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Post by Deets »

New promo video on mihara's youtube channel.
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Post by dmauro »

Deets wrote:New promo video on mihara's youtube channel.
A neat trick someone taught me, add &fmt=6 to any youtube url and it has less compression.
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=OcePhK6sjHU&fmt=6
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Post by kengou »

From that video, it looks like the game has actual stages beyond just the bosses? Or is that just the midbosses?
"I think Ikaruga is pretty tough. It is like a modern version of Galaga that some Japanese company made."
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Post by Necronopticous »

Does this mean we're getting stages, now?
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Post by MX7 »

Necronopticous wrote:Does this mean we're getting stages, now?
No
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Post by Kiken »

kengou wrote:From that video, it looks like the game has actual stages beyond just the bosses? Or is that just the midbosses?
That's the 2-player vs mode.
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Post by Frederik »

MX7 wrote:
Necronopticous wrote:Does this mean we're getting stages, now?
No
Well, kind of ONE stage based on stage 5 for multiplayer. I hope it´s accesible via single player, too. Anyways, kickass trailer and the games looks a lot smoother than I expected it - the older first stage boss trailer looks a lot jerkier than this one. It looks very good for a DS game. Mihara really knows his shit!
dmauro wrote:
Deets wrote:New promo video on mihara's youtube channel.
A neat trick someone taught me, add &fmt=6 to any youtube url and it has less compression.
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=OcePhK6sjHU&fmt=6
:shock: WTF? Any more details on this? Seems to work for this video (looks ten times better this way), but not others I´ve tried.

EDIT: Nevermind. Seems like they´re doing that to conserve bandwith.
The words YouTube and “high-resolution” have never really fit well in the same sentence. YouTube has always greatly limited the resolution of their videos to conserve on bandwidth, but going forward that may not always be the case. As it turns out there is a little something that you can add on to the end of a YouTube URL to have it play a high-resolution version of the same video.

The thing that you need to know, however, is that not every video has been re-encoded into the higher quality. In fact, I’ve tested this “trick” on about 40 videos, and only 7 of them had a higher quality version available. I’ve been reading around about this, and it looks as though newly uploaded videos are being converted a few hours after they’ve been added. And no one really seems to be sure as to whether it depends on the format of video (AVI, WMV, etc…).
http://www.donationcoder.com/Forums/bb/ ... .msg104538
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Post by Kaspal »

OMG!!!.... now i cant wait for october to come!!... this game looks SOOOOOO GREAT!!!
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Post by ReKleSS »

Mihara's latest blog post is interesting. The only part relevant to Ketsui Death Label is that there was mention of a joystick controller at the Cave Matsuri talk thing, but it's not feasible so they're not doing it. If I'm understanding this right there'll be an option to make the score box thingos disappear after a set number of frames, to stop the screen from cluttering up.

He also gets on to talking a bit about the X360 port, as well as the PS2 DOJ and ESPGaluda ports. He says the arcade DOJ doesn't have hardware slowdown, it was all created in software. Ketsui however, is straining the hardware and the slowdown is real. I'm having a hard time understanding what he says next - I think it's that part of the slowdown on the PS2 DOJ is genuine hardware slowdown, but it was checked side-by-side against the arcade version to make sure everything matched (same initial settings and same control inputs). And that it took 8 months to do. Because Galuda's balance of CPU and graphics processing usage was different, and because they had done it before, it took less than 4 months, and all the slowdown is in software. Of course, the 360 has many times the grunt of the PS2, both for graphics and CPU, so all slowdown will be in software.
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Post by moozooh »

ReKleSS wrote:He says the arcade DOJ doesn't have hardware slowdown, it was all created in software. Ketsui however, is straining the hardware and the slowdown is real.
That's interesting. Can it be because there are so many nonlinear bullet trajectories (and their overall amount on the screen at any given moment is higher in URA loop compared to DOJ's second loop)?
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Post by Frederik »

ReKleSS wrote:Mihara's latest blog post is interesting. The only part relevant to Ketsui Death Label is that there was mention of a joystick controller at the Cave Matsuri talk thing, but it's not feasible so they're not doing it.
I don´t really know about the state of DS emulation, but you could always just run it on your computer using whatever input you like (if you bought the original game, of course). I mean, think about how big that controller must have been turned out in relation to the DS itself if you want any arcade-like control. I´m a d-pad player anyways so it´s not like I´m losing any sleep over this, and the more die-hard arcade players will detest it anyways.

EDIT:
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:wink:
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Post by Frederik »

Given all the "DS controls suck"-talk, this might be of interest:

http://www.amazon.de/Nintendo-DS-lite-P ... 355&sr=1-1

Image

It´s basically an additional battery, but the snap-on handles are what made me buy this. There are similar products for the PSP, and I had one for my GBA SP (the snap-on handles, not the battery), which was BRILLIANT. Given that the d-pad on the DSL is already a bit problematic, this one here might at least remedy hand cramps and improve the button control quite a bit. I don´t really think I´ll use the battery in it much as I mostly play DS at home, but who knows, might be good for the occasional train ride :wink:

I´d still rather have just the handles, but simply couldn´t find anything similar, which is a bit sad, given how much "value packs", "modding skins" and other useless crap is avaiable for the DS.

It´s a bit expensive, and I couldn´t find the product on non-german Amazon sites, though I´ve read that the same product is made by Nyko, too (it´s supposed to be discontinued, though). I´ve read that these handles are very comfortable in several forums, so that was a no-brainer for me.

EDIT: Here´s the official product page:
http://www.logic3.com/details/?prod=168
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Post by BAD »

Haven't been here for a while, so I haven't checked all the previous posts, but if it hasn't already been mentioned, I noticed that preorders are officially open for this game at Japanese retailers...
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Post by Frederik »

New trailer!

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf9IVoetZkk&fmt=6

Looks better and better in each video. The bullets are pretty slow (which is good given you´ve got to play it with a sub-optimal dpad), but the framerate is smooth as butter and the graphics look a LOT better than in earlier videos. From time to time even I as a total handheld fanboy get my doubts whether or not this is going to be any good, but now I´m positive about it. Mihara doesn´t mess around when it comes to quality :)

http://www.arika.co.jp/product/ketsui_hp/game/game.html
Can anyone translate what it says about the different game modes? Does it say how many bosses in totally are in here?
Last edited by Frederik on Mon Sep 15, 2008 8:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by moozooh »

It looks like the easiest difficulty. The hardest is pretty insane, though.
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Post by Frederik »

Judging from how DOOM looks even in Easy mode, this game will last me a lifetime :oops:
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Post by Jet Black »

FrederikJurk wrote: What´s a bit weird, though, is that in the new version the first level boss is actually the midboss from the original (one center airscrew instead of two left and right as the proper boss). I´ve no idea if that means additional bosses or just swapped sprites.
I think that the first boss has only one airscrew because of the limited hardware power of the DS. So you can use the resources for more bullets and a smoother framerate
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Post by Frederik »

Jet Black wrote:
FrederikJurk wrote: What´s a bit weird, though, is that in the new version the first level boss is actually the midboss from the original (one center airscrew instead of two left and right as the proper boss). I´ve no idea if that means additional bosses or just swapped sprites.
I think that the first boss has only one airscrew because of the limited hardware power of the DS. So you can use the resources for more bullets and a smoother framerate
Argh, you were faster than my editing :wink: I thought so too, until I realized that the one in the video is actually the midboss from the original and that the stage 1 boss initially has four airscrews but has one center one too in the second form.
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Post by Jockel »

Wouldn't mind a leak on the internet right now.
Want it so badly >.>
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