"Wahhh, this shmup is too short, it's only 1 hr"

[gs68]

(caution: rant level is over 8,000...wait, it's over nine...)

I'm really getting sick of seeing this complaint.

The same complaint I see in any game intended to beaten in a single sitting (shmups and non-shmups): the game being too short.

Of course they're supposed to be "short," dammit. Like many great classic arcade games, they take only 15-30 minutes to complete on average, and are intended to be played over and over again. Go back to your 30-50 hour epics (not saying that they suck), because I guess the majority of games until the 5th generation of consoles suck garbage for also not being really long.

Even the "endless" classic shmups of the 70's and 80's like Galaga and Defender didn't last very long. Unless you knew the games in and out, you most likely wouldn't survive for more than 15 minutes.

I could maybe understand why people don't like Star Soldier R (though a great game, its price of 800 WP is questionable for a quick high-scoring game), but one particular offender complained about Gradius V being WAY too short. Excuse me? Are you accusing one of the longest non-euro shmups since Space Megaforce of being "too short"?

I only have one issue, and it's unfortunately not something that is easy to fix. The game is way too short. It's so small, the whole game fits on a regular 750 meg CD. Seven levels? Please, I did that almost in my sleep. It is difficult, but still beatable in a very short amount of time. And once you are done, there isn't a whole lot of incentive to play it again. Yes, you can change ships and weapons load outs, but the levels play exactly the same. So there's little to no replay value once you've beaten it. I have an idea, if someone would listen to me. Make a 2D shooter with say 50-60 levels. Then make them come up in a random order. Gradius VI anyone?

Obviously this guy has not seen or even heard of the Perfect DVD, in which the player takes at least 80 minutes to beat. Do I really wanna sit on my ass for 80 minutes, save for, say, bathroom breaks (that I most likely will do in mid-game and thus disrupt my rhythm and concentration)?

[gray117]

/agree

Really hate it when someone does the whole mb thing too.

It all really strikes of the short sighted 'bulk out and complete the features list tick box'

Granted, if you're completely new to shmups AND used to soldiering through 'epic' home releases, it may happen - oh that game was short.

But to act so dismissively does seem daft - and I'm afraid the quoting of mb game sizes in relation to content quality just screams ignorance pretending to be informed knowledge in this case I'm afraid.

At least in their defence they offer a suggested solution, and it strikes me they may in fact enjoy more the geometry wars/robotron type game formats... But such a suggestion is complete rubbish when dealing with the gradius series.

[Makoto Sei]

Gradius V... to short ? thats new for me to heard. I wonder if he ever try to continue playing the game after he cleared all the level ( without return to main menu)
Thunder Force V IS "TOO SHORT" for me

[Klatrymadon]

Not to sound elitist, but complaining that any shmup is 'too short' is just a dead give-away that you're not playing it properly. I highly doubt any journos single-credited Gradius V in time for their review, and there's nothing wrong with reviewing something you haven't thoroughly rinsed as long as you take this into account (without blaming the game for it), but floating your way to the end on each respawn's brief moment of invincibility and then calling the game 'short' takes the piss.

Hell, Contra III on the SNES (as a tenuously-related example) takes about 20 minutes to beat, even on Hard mode, but it usually takes a beginner a good week or so to actually see it through to the end.

Longevity clearly isn't being considered in terms of replay value here, either. A 20 minute game that you play through on an almost weekly basis for 15 years clearly has more longevity than a one-shot adventure you can't really be arsed with once you've finished the main quest.

Reviewers not "getting it" shouldn't come as any kind of surprise, though.

[moozooh]

The game size argument is beyond hilarious. Guys who are using it to assess anything other than the program code efficiency are either severely misinformed, or complete idiots.

Average 16-bit era game size is 512—2048 KB, but those who need to know it the most, don't.

With Gradius V, about ~600 of those 750 MB is music in redbook audio. Ikaruga has none, hence why it weighs under 20 MB.

[Observer]

All these brats have been spoiled by the 'extra content' shit and achievements that force you into situations instead of making you play the damn thing... Amongst other things, like credit feeding to the end and claiming they beat it. They 'beat it' and then unlocked all the achievements and that's it.

Tracking gun: "Score 1500 while touching your ass and holding the pad 90º to the south."

Jeez. But it's always been like that. I was planning on making a thread with mainstream stg reviews from several magazines I have (I posted a couple in a thread not so long ago but I have more) and whatever we can find from the web. Most of them always mash the same thing: "too short, too hard, could use more levels (so far, the only one that mildly handled this to some extent was Jets 'N' Guns), no replay value", bla, bla, bla, yadda, yadda.

30-50 hours epics are so swallow clichés nowadays. Personally, few of those games reach their so-pretended grandiosity. The most rpg feature I can stand in a shooter might be picking up my weapons at the beginning, levelling them up in game (RSG, Darius, etc.), or levelling the character up (Psyvariar).

I think they are trying too hard to make a shooter into jRPGs that last 56 hours or more.

Ironically, I think pretty much every shooter has more epic value than them.

I mean, Gluon (I think that's the name of the roboto from Psyvariar 2), that thing is obscenely crazy, the Stone-Like is always a recipe for insanity (falling crystals at the rhythm of a heartbeat+lasers anyone?), the grotesque Gradius alien heads and moais, the badass Do-do-do-DON-PACHI bosses, huge battleship Elinies, that lady from Esp.Ra.De (and this one feels like some twisted Miyazaki meets Alice in Wonderland with mechs and ships) or even ZUN's crazy lolis.

And I bet people would keep listing not only final bosses but also other stage bosses. ThunderForce or Blazing Star or Under Defeat (where even a freaking ship loaded with cannons or an airplane can be damn cool!)

...

Too long. See, I read a Panzer Dragoon (one of my all-time favourite games) review and the dude complained of the same things.

And I agree with pretty much every post here so far. I wish games would still come with CDDA music...

edit: yeah, guess they just 'don't get it'. Kengou stated it masterfully in his long blog post.

edit2: Typo cleaning/sentence cleaning

[gennss]

I'm of the opinion that the deep level of concentration to properly do a shooter shouldn't be extended more than an hour. Seriously I can sleep through an rpg and do well a shooter requires my complete attention to survive 10 mins. And if you're using continue's left and right, you're doing it wrong.

^.-

[P_HAT]

Just another credit-feed asshole, who cares?

[Frederik]

Just another credit-feed asshole, who cares?

Yeah, this thing has been discussed to death. I mean, of course it´s stupid, but I guess we should stop wasting our energy getting wound up over random idiots incompetent gibberish. There will always be people with stupid opinions (on all sorts of things), and as much as we want to shake them violently sometimes, we just start to just ignore this for the sake of our mental peace.

[gabe]

Just another credit-feed asshole, who cares?

Yeah, this thing has been discussed to death. I mean, of course it´s stupid, but I guess we should stop wasting our energy getting wound up over random idiots incompetent gibberish. There will always be people with stupid opinions (on all sorts of things), and as much as we want to shake them violently sometimes, we just start to just ignore this for the sake of our mental peace.

QFT

[kengou]

This was discussed in a good amount of depth here
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... highlight=

[MR_Soren]

Just another credit-feed asshole, who cares?

Yeah, this thing has been discussed to death. I mean, of course it´s stupid, but I guess we should stop wasting our energy getting wound up over random idiots incompetent gibberish. There will always be people with stupid opinions (on all sorts of things), and as much as we want to shake them violently sometimes, we just start to just ignore this for the sake of our mental peace.

It's worth getting upset over. These idiots are in positions of influence, and their apparent goals are to promote interactive entertainment and snuff out the existence of video games.

They are having a negative impact on our hobby, and we should do something about it. Unfortunately, posting about it here where everybody will agree doesn't change anything, and that's all most of us have time for.

[gennss]

won't make a diff, casual games and classic style games are doing much better now even though the critics and "hardcore" crowds complain because people have voted with $$$

[Skykid]

Gradius V too short?

My ass. People like this aren't capable of being games reviewers because they don't understand anything about games.

Should be banned from the internet by way of finger removal.

[gennss]

I play shmups both ways btw. I 1cc and continue whore it.

First I continue whore to try to see the ending. then I 1 cc to try to get insane high scores, exception, ikaruga, since I couldn't get enough continues to see the ending I jumped into 1cc mentality after the second try. (note: 1cc is new word for me, I'd call it highscore mode but 1cc is cool term lol)

[lgb]

No one cares.

[Skykid]

No one cares.

Not very nice.

[Frederik]

I mean, he kinda seemed to like it anyways, but obviously he could have done it MUCH better, and he´s giving his ideas away for free:

I have an idea, if someone would listen to me. Make a 2D shooter with say 50-60 levels. Then make them come up in a random order. Gradius VI anyone?

ARE YOU LISTENING, TREASURE?

[gabe]

I have an idea, if someone would listen to me. Make a 2D shooter with say 50-60 levels. Then make them come up in a random order. Gradius VI anyone?

This is either the best idea ever, or the worst idea ever.

I honestly can't tell.

[No_not_like_Quake]

I demand more story elements in shmups and rpg leveling and shops and save points with 150 stages. Get rid of score, that's not needed just put in exp. points.

[lgb]

It's almost come to that.

[moonblood]

Gradius V is too long as it is

[gennss]

I can't read japanese. So more pretty pictures less story and cute animations...

[Shatterhand]

I demand more story elements in shmups and rpg leveling and shops and save points with 150 stages. Get rid of score, that's not needed just put in exp. points.

Also make sure there are lots of checkponts in the stages, and an energy bar and constant health pick-ups.

Honestly, if someone make a game like that, with OMG FANTASTIC 3D GFX, the press would drool all over it. Give it an epic story of some sort... you don't even need to think about level design that much, just have a few kind of enemies and throw them over and over, just making they tougher when you advance in the game. Make them shoot simple bullet patterns that always leave enough space, and just throw enemies randomly.

Just make sure to have excellent graphics, an epic story (Possibly with lots of characters, and the main character has to do lots of talking with the other characters, including a wingman who dies along the way), lots of unlockables, RPG leveling and shops to buy stuff, and different paths that lead to different levels, so you can have REPLAY VALUE!!!!!! . That will surely get lots of great ratings among the press.

[320x240]

Lot's of stuff that, sadly, is all too true.

I don't think we'll ever see such a game though.

[orange]

geometry wars 2 was way too short it sucks also there are no unlockables wtf is that

[Observer]

One thing I think it was missing from the other thread or I overlooked it is the, by now stupid and annyoing: RETRO shit.

Gradius V is so retro. Retro my balls la remil reconferencia de la lora... DDP Daiffukatsu is retro right? Did it come out in 1985? Oh, it has 2008. Can't be true, arcade games don't exist anymore, it's all DDR.

Ah, whatever...

http://www.retroremakes.com/wordpress/rm5-war-twat/

Why can't they shove it the retro and simply say it's a shooter? Why it has to be retro?

edit: I mean, Yume Nikki has the same style of blocky graphics and it's not particularly an old game.

Nice name though. War Twat...

[lgb]

Because retro means it's the best game/worst game ever.

[Observer]

Retro jokes aside, I appreciated the sense of humour at least. The game is... insane. Not good for the epileptic.

War Twat has no plot. It doesn't really need one.

Best quote from the author. And that's how shooter should be, right? The plot might come in handy later, once the game is done and rocking.

edit:

Now I expect people to review it: "Game is too short. It lasts 25 seconds."

[Skykid]

Gradius V is too long as it is

Agreed.

Fucking hard too.