Could 360 become the ultimate shmup system?

[moozooh]

Imo it's pretty much a fact that the oh so evil Microsoft is putting in a lot of effort to bring some shmup goodies to xbla.

No effort there. It's not them who want shmups on XBLA in the first place; MS instead censors some titles for no apparent reason like in your example with Cave ports.

[jp]

Imo it's pretty much a fact that the oh so evil Microsoft is putting in a lot of effort to bring some shmup goodies to xbla.

No effort there. It's not them who want shmups on XBLA in the first place; MS instead censors some titles for no apparent reason like in your example with Cave ports.

So... is that why they put Aegis Wing out for free, made Senko no Ronde part of the Microsoft Platinum Collection in Japan, are getting Treasure to make a new 2D shooter, and got Treasure to port Ikaruga to the 360?

[kengou]

I'm fairly sure Treasure made those decisions themselves and Microsoft would have been stupid to not agree to allow those games on the xbox.

If you have evidence that Microsoft literally put effort into getting more shmups onto the xbox, I'd love to see that though.

[Aru-san]

Imo it's pretty much a fact that the oh so evil Microsoft is putting in a lot of effort to bring some shmup goodies to xbla.

No effort there. It's not them who want shmups on XBLA in the first place; MS instead censors some titles for no apparent reason like in your example with Cave ports.

So... is that why they put Aegis Wing out for free, made Senko no Ronde part of the Microsoft Platinum Collection in Japan, are getting Treasure to make a new 2D shooter, and got Treasure to port Ikaruga to the 360?

Aegis Wing - Out for free because some indie devs managed to pull off a game w/o using XNA and decided their efforts were voluntary (I think).
Senko no Ronde - Have no clue on what's going on in the Japanese XBox 360 realm.
Two Treasure Shooters (New and Ikaruga) - Who's to say that Microsoft made Treasure port Ikaruga or develop a new shmup for the console?

[Battlesmurf]

Does Defender count?


And was it decided that Smash TV/Robotron/Geo Wars/blah blah where not shmups?


But yeah- I find my self playing my 360 more than my PS2 lately- lots of interesting odds and ends popping up on it.

[KindGrind]

I find it hard to buy XBLA games. I have absolutely no trouble buying an original cart/disk, but paying for a file feels weird to me. I did buy Ikaruga for XBLA because I love the game and I had just sold my GC version. Did buy Super Metroid on the VC, too, because I can't go without it. The rest though?

I'd rather buy the real game - that I can sell once I'm done with. There'S nothing like playing the real cart with the original controller. Playing it emulated takes fun out of it, at least in my opinion.

[Dave_K.]

Unfortunately these next generation console shmups (Omega 5, Galaga Legions, Otomedius, ...) require analog sticks! So fancy custom sticks are out of the picture (much less real arcade controls).

What? No they don't. I played Omega Five with the d-pad, and Otomedius' limited edition COMES WITH an arcade stick.

Please correct me if I'm wrong here, as I do not own an XB360. Although Omega 5 uses d-pad for movement, it requires analog stick for directional firing. As for Otomedius, it requires the expensive touch pad or an analog stick for special attack.

Please explain how you can play both of these on a custom sanwa stick with 6 buttons (i.e. arcade controls).

[dmauro]

Playing PCBs on arcade hardware is nice, but $10 for an arcade game with the option to download in-game superplays from the leaderboards is a pretty fantastic deal.

[jp]

Unfortunately these next generation console shmups (Omega 5, Galaga Legions, Otomedius, ...) require analog sticks! So fancy custom sticks are out of the picture (much less real arcade controls).

What? No they don't. I played Omega Five with the d-pad, and Otomedius' limited edition COMES WITH an arcade stick.

Please correct me if I'm wrong here, as I do not own an XB360. Although Omega 5 uses d-pad for movement, it requires analog stick for directional firing. As for Otomedius, it requires the expensive touch pad or an analog stick for special attack.

Please explain how you can play both of these on a custom sanwa stick with 6 buttons (i.e. arcade controls).

Ah, no, I was just talking about general movement. I don't see how special attacks really matter.

Two Treasure Shooters (New and Ikaruga) - Who's to say that Microsoft made Treasure port Ikaruga or develop a new shmup for the console?

I could be wrong, but I could've sworn in an early interview Maegawa mentioned Microsoft approaching them about making some games for them. In fact, if memory serves me correctly, MS was possibly going to be the publisher.

[Dave_K.]

What? No they don't. I played Omega Five with the d-pad, and Otomedius' limited edition COMES WITH an arcade stick.

Please correct me if I'm wrong here, as I do not own an XB360. Although Omega 5 uses d-pad for movement, it requires analog stick for directional firing. As for Otomedius, it requires the expensive touch pad or an analog stick for special attack.

Please explain how you can play both of these on a custom sanwa stick with 6 buttons (i.e. arcade controls).

Ah, no, I was just talking about general movement. I don't see how special attacks really matter.

Alrighty then....like I was saying before, its unfortunate these next gen console shooters require analog sticks, which means they are not playable with arcade controls.

[Ghegs]

Ah, no, I was just talking about general movement. I don't see how special attacks really matter.

I think my brain exploded.

[moozooh]

jp: in any case, it seems that Microsoft only goes for whatever seems profitable for them without caring much about the content quality, because "quality" in this case is tied to profits and not anything else (which would explain much of the actions they take quite well).

RSG/Ikaruga/GV have been among the most popular shmups of their time. These games (well, at least the latter two) are known to casual gamers, and Treasure is known for other popular games as well. If MS wants to have a popular high quality shmup title on their console, Treasure is likely to be the safest possible company to place a bet on. Cave, on the other hand, is so niche the success is absolutely unpredictable in this case.

To put it short, I have yet to see a convincing evidence that MS actually cares about "bringing goodies" when it doesn't spell "bringing profits".

[cody]

320 x 240 ?

fail.

[jp]

Ah, no, I was just talking about general movement. I don't see how special attacks really matter.

I think my brain exploded.

Well, I meant like, I would imagine you could just map some special attack to another button.


Though I don't know exactly how Otomedius works yet, so... I'll have to let you know in September if that would work or not.


In so far as Omega Five, using the right analog to fire completely slipped my mind, so yeah, you would need something to emulate the right analog for it work.


But those are the only two shmups on there that really use the analog... Ketsui X certainly won't and I can assure you Raiden Fighters Aces doesn't...

So... its still silly.

[Afterbirth]

quite why no one has mentioned the duel stick shmups is beyond me...

given Geowars 2 is crack....IMO of course.

[Necronom]

Imo it's pretty much a fact that the oh so evil Microsoft is putting in a lot of effort to bring some shmup goodies to xbla.

No effort there. It's not them who want shmups on XBLA in the first place; MS instead censors some titles for no apparent reason like in your example with Cave ports.

So... is that why they put Aegis Wing out for free, made Senko no Ronde part of the Microsoft Platinum Collection in Japan, are getting Treasure to make a new 2D shooter, and got Treasure to port Ikaruga to the 360?

...they also publish the upcoming R-Type Dimensions and are the publisher behind Geometry Wars. Treasure was approached by MS because MS knows exactly that they have a huge western fanbase and therefore want Treasure games on their platform.
If the efforts of the people working to bring new xbla shmups isn't to your liking, then fine...go and play the wii. Just please don't give me any retarded crap about "censorship". MS simply doesn't see any financial sense in bringing cave stuff to the western market yet. How can somebody with a brain even think about calling that "censorship"?!
And what's with this silly nonsense about "bringing goodies when it doesn't spell bringing profits", moozooh?! Are Sony and Ninty some welfare institutions or what? Since when?

[manaka]

As for Otomedius, it requires the expensive touch pad or an analog stick for special attack.

Incorrect. It does not. There will be a way for people to play the touch pad parts with a normal controller. Otherwise why would they bother to sell the game separately?



In terms of sheer numbers (about 20 titles so far) and quality (Ketsui, DoDonPachi, New Treasure Game) the 360 certainly outclasses its generation of consoles at the moment.

The only people who argue otherwise are the ones that have other issues with the console that are not shmup related.

[Endymion]

So... is that why they put Aegis Wing out for free, made Senko no Ronde part of the Microsoft Platinum Collection in Japan, are getting Treasure to make a new 2D shooter, and got Treasure to port Ikaruga to the 360?

No offence or anything, because I agree with your sentiment, but not with the way that you just put it. Microsoft doesn't "make" anybody develop their games for the system. All they do is make their platform attractive to developers to create and publish on. And they have done a great job at that. It is a wonderful system to develop for. The reason that the platform has suddenly become so attractive to 2D shooting publishers is more circumstantial. I can't imagine for a moment that Microsoft has done, or would even want to do anything to discourage that however, now that it is there.

[Afterbirth]

Its all about XBLA really - i must admit i'm very suprised at Senko no Ronde as it did shite over here in the UK.

But live is the ideal showcase for shmups - i don't think packaged games are the way forward on the 360.

I think devs have looked at how successful the likes of Namco, Konami and Bizarre have been with games - they've seen how great live actually is to set up and play - and of course with constantly great packaged games being available it'll only mean more live subs.

[sjewkestheloon]

I just love the fact that a more than reasonable port of Ikaruga has been made available for very little money.

I hope that more and more shmups come to XBLA. I intend to buy all of them. If 50% are shoddy I still have great value for money.

[Ghegs]

But live is the ideal showcase for shmups - i don't think packaged games are the way forward on the 360.

This hits close to home with me, because all the 360 games that interest me are on the Live Arcade, there's not a single "proper" release for the system that does that. And I would feel seriously weird buying the system for the Live Arcade games alone.

Yes, I know there's the "Xbox 360 Arcade" variant, but without a harddrive and only 256 MB memory unit it seems woefully underequipped to actually store the arcade games...

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

I could be wrong, but I could've sworn in an early interview Maegawa mentioned Microsoft approaching them about making some games for them. In fact, if memory serves me correctly, MS was possibly going to be the publisher.

This.

MS courted them. It was stated in a 1UP interview. I think the same interview mentioned Ikaruga, an unnamed shooter, and a new Wii game.

I think they did a followup interview where RSG was speculated to appear on the 360.

[dmauro]

For anyone that says away from buying XBLA games because they hate the idea of paying for something they have to keep on a hard drive that could fail and leave you SOL, you can buy adapters that plug your 360 hard drive into a normal SATA connector on your PC for a few bucks on eBay. You don't even have to open the hard drive case up so you won't be voiding your warranty or anything. You can then use certain programs to back up your hard drive, and then simply restore that backup later should anything go wrong.

[Kiken]

I could be wrong, but I could've sworn in an early interview Maegawa mentioned Microsoft approaching them about making some games for them. In fact, if memory serves me correctly, MS was possibly going to be the publisher.

This.

MS courted them. It was stated in a 1UP interview. I think the same interview mentioned Ikaruga, an unnamed shooter, and a new Wii game.

I think they did a followup interview where RSG was speculated to appear on the 360.

Same thing was stated by Maruyama of G.Rev: Microsoft approached them and asked if they'd be willing to port one of their games to the 360. G.Rev showed them Under Defeat and Senko No Ronde. Microsoft chose Senko no Ronde so G.Rev figured they'd give DC owners one last gift with the DC port of UD.

[jp]

Yeah... I knew Microsoft had actually asked G.Rev and Treasure to bring stuff to their systems.


So @ the naysayers.

[Kaspal]

I could be wrong, but I could've sworn in an early interview Maegawa mentioned Microsoft approaching them about making some games for them. In fact, if memory serves me correctly, MS was possibly going to be the publisher.

This.

MS courted them. It was stated in a 1UP interview. I think the same interview mentioned Ikaruga, an unnamed shooter, and a new Wii game.

I think they did a followup interview where RSG was speculated to appear on the 360.

Same thing was stated by Maruyama of G.Rev: Microsoft approached them and asked if they'd be willing to port one of their games to the 360. G.Rev showed them Under Defeat and Senko No Ronde. Microsoft chose Senko no Ronde so G.Rev figured they'd give DC owners one last gift with the DC port of UD.

under defeat on XBLA would have been a masive hit from my POV... actually, i still play that one on my DC, and wish i had it on the 360, so i wouldnt have to turn off one, to turn on the other (yes, im a lazzy bastard.)... i've been even thinkin on buyin Ikaruga for the same reason stated above... but, heck!... i have it on the DC for chrst sake!! (i hope next time i connect to XBLA, after i buy the must haves, i have no points left... or i may end up buyin the bastard!).

[RackGaki]

Otomedius would be pretty cool to have on the 360, but Play-asia has the joystick marked up pretty high. I don't even have an asia-region 360, so I probably couldn't even play it (unless they're making it region-free).

I hope Grev does bring Under Defeat to the Xbox 360 sooner than later. Senko no Ronde bombed in the States, but I blame that on a $60 day one price point for a niche genre. Consequently, it was the first 360 game to have it's priced slashed $50 at Gamestop. As the success of XBLA SHMUPs has proven, it would have been worthwhile to simply release it on Live.

As far as the newer consoles are concerned, the 360 has the shoot 'em up market pretty cornered. The Wii isn't doing too shabbily, either, even though many of their shooters were previously released on other systems.

[Kiken]

Otomedius would be pretty cool to have on the 360, but Play-asia has the joystick marked up pretty high. I don't even have an asia-region 360, so I probably couldn't even play it (unless they're making it region-free).

I think we can safely assume that Otomedius will be region locked. Also, again, the joystick is retardedly expensive because it's available through Konami Style exclusively. As a result, all import stores have to pay retail in order to get ahold of them.

I hope Grev does bring Under Defeat to the Xbox 360 sooner than later. Senko no Ronde bombed in the States, but I blame that on a $60 day one price point for a niche genre. Consequently, it was the first 360 game to have it's priced slashed $50 at Gamestop. As the success of XBLA SHMUPs has proven, it would have been worthwhile to simply release it on Live.

They won't. G.Rev have been pretty adamant about stating that they do a single homeport and then prefer to move onto something new. If anything, Mamoru-kun will most likely see a 360 release (and given the current trend, I'd assume on physical disc media).

[RackGaki]

I think we can safely assume that Otomedius will be region locked. Also, again, the joystick is retardedly expensive because it's available through Konami Style exclusively. As a result, all import stores have to pay retail in order to get ahold of them.

It's understandably expensive in such circumstances. It's just unfortunate for the average shoot 'em up fan across the pond.

They won't. G.Rev have been pretty adamant about stating that they do a single homeport and then prefer to move onto something new. If anything, Mamoru-kun will most likely see a 360 release (and given the current trend, I'd assume on physical disc media).

Great news, if not for the inevitable region-locking. Time to buy another 360...

[sideshow]

360>Wii>PS3

PS3 is the weakest of the sauce with only Super Stardust HD and Novastrike which really arent true sidescrolling shmups. Soldner-X still hasnt shown up on PS3 and is supposed to come out this year.