TFV vs. rest of the series

ST Dragon · Post by **ST Dragon** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:29 pm

Grinning Cat wrote:
ST Dragon wrote:If that's the best Hollywood has to offer for 2008, then Hollywood sucks big time.
After all, it's a fact that the majority of modern Hollywood films are just sub-par, insanely overpriced with non-existent (or minimum) meanings, boring script & storylines and overly relying on CGI.
Weren't you (just the other day) talking about the "epic" storyline in TFV?

Me? I thoroughly enjoyed the Dark Knight. Sure, it may not be the 'deepest' film ever, but as cliched as it sounds - I try to enjoy films for what they are, rather than what they're not.

I just think it did everything (within the confines of its own niche/genre, anyway) near-perfectly. Yes, if I was trying to compile a list of my 100 all-time favourites, it would be pretty unlikely to figure...but it should definitely be considered up there with the best of what mainstream Hollywood has managed in the last decade.

Haters - just remember; elitism isn't mandatory. It is possible to like indie/world stuff as well as some Hollywood!

Weren't you (just the other day) talking about the "epic" storyline in TFV?

Yes, you don't get that many shmups with dramatic/sad, epic and meaningful story lines like TFV....
What else would you call it?

Have you ever read the stoty.txt files revealed once you acquire enough gameplay time? Quite an interesrting read...

Grinning Cat · Post by **Grinning Cat** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:24 pm

ST Dragon wrote:Yes, you don't get that many shmups with dramatic/sad, epic and meaningful story lines like TFV....
What else would you call it?

Sorry, but the only thing I would deem "sad" in TFV, is how poor (generally speaking) it is compared to the rest of the series

[/flamebait]

ForceDevice · Post by **ForceDevice** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:38 pm

Grinning Cat wrote: Sorry, but the only thing I would deem "sad" in TFV, is how poor (generally speaking) the rest of the series is compared to it [/flamebait]

Fixed.

My flamebait > yours

Limbrooke · Post by **Limbrooke** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:50 pm

ForceDevice wrote:
Grinning Cat wrote: Sorry, but the only thing I would deem "sad" in TFV, is how poor (generally speaking) the rest of the series is compared to it [/flamebait]
Fixed.

My flamebait > yours

Grinning Cat · Post by **Grinning Cat** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:09 pm

ForceDevice wrote:
Grinning Cat wrote: Sorry, but the only thing I would deem "sad" in TFV, is how poor (generally speaking) the rest of the series is compared to it [/flamebait]
Fixed.

My flamebait > yours

Nice try. But, no. TFV is what Zanac Neo is to Zanac

Neon · Post by **Neon** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:00 pm

Skykid wrote:
Ed Oscuro wrote:Leave it to Skykid to inject some much-needed I AM A PRO CONVERSATIONALIST AND THEIR SCRIPT WAS DECIDEDLY LACKING into the thread! Three cheers.
Ed, what's going on dude? You're really bashing me today - what have I ever done to offend you.

Hey, he called my girlfriend a vapid cunt and he's my TF2 buddy.

It's just Eddie being Eddie, don't take it personally.

The winking smiley should be eliminated and ^_~ reserved for PCEFX

Super Laydock · Post by **Super Laydock** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:01 pm

Neon wrote:
Skykid wrote:
Ed Oscuro wrote:Leave it to Skykid to inject some much-needed I AM A PRO CONVERSATIONALIST AND THEIR SCRIPT WAS DECIDEDLY LACKING into the thread! Three cheers.
Ed, what's going on dude? You're really bashing me today - what have I ever done to offend you.
Hey, he called my girlfriend a vapid cunt and he's my TF2 buddy.

It's just Eddie being Eddie, don't take it personally.

seconded.

jp · Post by jp » Sat Aug 02, 2008 2:36 am

Grinning Cat wrote:
ForceDevice wrote:
Grinning Cat wrote: Sorry, but the only thing I would deem "sad" in TFV, is how poor (generally speaking) the rest of the series is compared to it [/flamebait]
Fixed.

My flamebait > yours
Nice try. But, no. TFV is absolute garbage in comparison to every other 2D shooter Tecno Soft ever made.

Fixed.

Super Laydock · Post by **Super Laydock** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 2:40 am

jp wrote: Nice try. But, no. TFV is absolute garbage in comparison to every other 2D shooter Tecno Soft ever made.

Fixed.

Someone HAD to say this sooner or later.

How someone could prefer V over IV or III is beyond me.

jp · Post by jp » Sat Aug 02, 2008 2:50 am

Super Laydock wrote:
jp wrote: Nice try. But, no. TFV is absolute garbage in comparison to every other 2D shooter Tecno Soft ever made.

Fixed.
Someone HAD to say this sooner or later.

How someone could prefer V over IV or III is beyond me.

I guess people like horrible scoring systems that revolve around one vastly overpowered weapon and some of the worst level design ever done by Tecno Soft? Not to mention the transition from some timeless 2D that looks stunning even today to some horribly lifelessly bland 3D?

Thunder Force died after IV for me. And then Tecno Soft died after Blast Wind.

JoshF · Post by **JoshF** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 2:57 am

horrible scoring systems

II: infinite scoring
III: okay Toaplan-style duplicate item bonuses, but not enough of them
IV: infinite scoring

V gets the A for effort.

worst level design ever

Here's where the argument is. I can't exactly remember but I don't think V had any real structural obstacles besides the bottom of the screen some times.

jp · Post by jp » Sat Aug 02, 2008 5:37 am

JoshF wrote:
horrible scoring systems
II: infinite scoring
III: okay Toaplan-style duplicate item bonuses, but not enough of them
IV: infinite scoring

V gets the A for effort.

Well, the problem there is that TFII-TFIV weren't really built around a scoring system. Score in that was pretty much just a way to get extra lives, and in the end you'd get some points for having lives. But really, I've always considered score in TFII-TFIV about as relevant as score in Super Mario Bros. or Super Mario Bros. 3: Its THERE, but its not something you really concern yourself with. The good TFs were more just about playing for survival through some awesomely designed levels.

TFV on the other hand, was built around a God awful scoring system which was built around a God awful weapon all while having some God awful level design.

worst level design ever
Here's where the argument is. I can't exactly remember but I don't think V had any real structural obstacles besides the bottom of the screen some times.

I think TFV has ONE level that has any sort of structural obstacles (level 4). Other than that its just empty screen, really bad bullet patterns/movement, and insanely boring enemy placement. TFV had NONE of the spirit of the old TFs in it.

Also, at least in TFII-TFIV you would find yourself using different weapons/strategies against different bosse for maximum efficiency. In fact, in TFIV, you find yourself (Z0MG!) switching weapons DURING boss fights.

On the other hand, TFV was miserably boring to play with Free Range, and just miserable to play without it since the game was apparently designed around it.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 6:07 am

Super Laydock wrote:
Neon wrote:
Skykid wrote: Ed, what's going on dude? You're really bashing me today - what have I ever done to offend you. :(
Hey, he called my girlfriend a vapid cunt and he's my TF2 buddy.

It's just Eddie being Eddie, don't take it personally.
seconded.

To be honest that's pretty over-the-top even for me. I don't like using language like that so I understand if it was a shock.

p.s. I'll GUT you like a CORNISH GAME HEN

D · Post by D » Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:28 am

What's with the tf hijack? I don't understand the love for tf at all. they were impressive games for the genny, but I didn't like them.
Can't you guys find a room!

Grinning Cat · Post by **Grinning Cat** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 5:26 pm

D wrote:I don't understand the love for tf at all. they were impressive games for the genny, but I didn't like them.

How can you call them 'impressive' when you didn't/don't like them?

Surely, if you didn't like them, they'd be unimpressive. Unless you mean purely graphically (though that would also be out, given how basic TFII *cough, shit port* & III look).

Can't you guys find a room!

Only if ST Dragon's paying

jp · Post by jp » Sat Aug 02, 2008 5:52 pm

I always thought TFIII looked fairly impressive personally. I mean, its no TFIV... but it was still damn solid at the time and still holds up fairly well.

Unlike the shitfest that is TFV.

Grinning Cat · Post by **Grinning Cat** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 6:21 pm

The colours look sort of...muted to me in III. Plus the sprites are pretty simple. It's alright, nothing ugly - but hardly very special, either. At least the frame-rate doesn't chug like IV!

And yes, V has the kind of face only a mother could love. To the people who complain about the aesthetics of VI (after the travesty of V): whatever you've been eating, it probably has too many additives

jp · Post by jp » Sat Aug 02, 2008 6:47 pm

Playing TFIV on Gold Pack 2 is the only way to go.

No slowdown what-so-ever.

Grinning Cat · Post by **Grinning Cat** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 6:59 pm

I don't doubt it - though embarrassingly, I've never actually owned Gold Pack 2

I could live with the slow-down in the MD version, if it wasn't for the fact the music judders with the action

hmmm time to pick up the Gold Pack, maybe? Or overclock the shit out of my MD

jp · Post by jp » Sun Aug 03, 2008 1:33 am

Gold Pack 2 is worth it. You get Thunder Force AC and a slow down free Thunder Force IV in which you can also play as Fire Leo once you've finished it.

I would recommend it. TF Gold Pack 1 is kinda worthless though.

J-Manic · Post by **J-Manic** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 1:49 am

jp wrote:Gold Pack 2 is worth it. You get Thunder Force AC and a slow down free Thunder Force IV in which you can also play as Fire Leo once you've finished it.

Not only that, but you also get to listen to the two very nice arranged tracks, that were made for the pack, on redbook audio. And these arrangements can be found ONLY on the Gold Pack 2. Too bad you can't listen to the entire soundtrack for both TFAC and TFIV, though. You can do so on TFGP1.

jp · Post by jp » Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:52 am

J-Manic wrote:
jp wrote:Gold Pack 2 is worth it. You get Thunder Force AC and a slow down free Thunder Force IV in which you can also play as Fire Leo once you've finished it.
Not only that, but you also get to listen to the two very nice arranged tracks, that were made for the pack, on redbook audio. And these arrangements can be found ONLY on the Gold Pack 2. Too bad you can't listen to the entire soundtrack for both TFAC and TFIV, though. You can do so on TFGP1.

Oh yeah! Those are awesome. I actually used to have the one of those as my music on my myspace dealie.

J-Manic · Post by **J-Manic** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:46 am

jp, PM me if you need them.

jp · Post by jp » Sun Aug 03, 2008 7:37 am

Na, I got 'em on my computer.

I ripped all the Tecno Soft stuff to my PC as soon as I got it. Nothing tops Yunker Matai's work from the early days and Hyakutarou Tsukumo's work from the later days. I don't think anyone in the shooter industry has come close to those guys.

FSR · Post by **FSR** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 7:57 am

jp wrote:... and a slow down free Thunder Force IV in which you can also play as Fire Leo once you've finished it.

I've read about this numerous times, but never managed to find some screenshots.
Is this additonal ship just a sprite swap or did they also bother to include all TFIII exclusive weapons?

jp · Post by jp » Sun Aug 03, 2008 8:03 am

Ask and ye shall recieve good sir:

As you can see, same weapons as from TFIII. So yes, it IS the Fire Leo and it plays exactly like it does in TFIII, same weapons and all.

Though if I recall correclty it never gets the charge shot dealie the Rynex gets, so its actually a lot harder to use in later levels.

FSR · Post by **FSR** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 8:11 am

Woah thanks!

The game even switches to TFIII font. Completely unimportant, but a nice detail nonetheless.

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 11:15 am

one vastly overpowered weapon

I know it was by far the best boss killer, but the lancer in TF3 was a boss killer also.

I never played TF for scoring, at all.

jp · Post by jp » Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:57 pm

Strider77 wrote:
one vastly overpowered weapon
I know it was by far the best boss killer, but the lancer in TF3 was a boss killer also.

I never played TF for scoring, at all.

On the other hand, TFV was miserably boring to play with Free Range, and just miserable to play without it since the game was apparently designed around it.

At least if you didn't have the lancer in TFIII, the bosses weren't miserable to fight.

Not even the last ones.

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 6:01 pm

I didn't really find the bosses really all that hard without that weapon, I mean if I was stuck with only the twin shot with no claws then yeah some could be hard, but that's any power up shooter. Gradius for example.

I never read anywhere where the developers made the game around the free range, I have read posts claiming this but never any evidence that it was said by the makers. Anyone that can point me to it, I'm curious myself?