Rare Case: PAL Release Better Than NTSC Counterpart: R-Types

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Ceph
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Rare Case: PAL Release Better Than NTSC Counterpart: R-Types

Post by Ceph »

When I was playing R-Types (JP) the other day I noticed that it was running too fast when compared with the PCE version or the original PCB (which is running at a pretty weird frequency, 55Hz).
Then I remembered that I had owned the PAL release of R-Types for years and decided to give it a try, and guess what: It's actually much better than the NTSC release, and not just speed-wise. The NTSC release superimposes the beam bar onto the playing field and also cuts off a few lines, whereas the PAL release actually features the full arcade screen.

Example: R-Type II
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D
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Post by D »

I vaguely remeber there are options to center, scale the image on the jp version, so maybe that can do the trick too!
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Ceph
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Post by Ceph »

D wrote:I vaguely remeber there are options to [...] scale the image on the jp version
Nope. There is only a scroll-mode where the screen scrolls up and down as you move your ship; pretty worthless. NTSC simply hasn't enough lines to display the full image, and it's running too fast, which makes R-Type unnecessarily hard.
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Re: Rare Case: PAL Release Better Than NTSC Counterpart: R-T

Post by Turrican »

Ceph wrote:When I was playing R-Types (JP) the other day I noticed that it was running too fast when compared with the PCE version or the original PCB (which is running at a pretty weird frequency, 55Hz).
Then I remembered that I had owned the PAL release of R-Types for years and decided to give it a try, and guess what: It's actually much better than the NTSC release, and not just speed-wise. The NTSC release superimposes the beam bar onto the playing field and also cuts off a few lines, whereas the PAL release actually features the full arcade screen.
Ah, I'm not sure about that Ceph. Here's a little comparison:

These are R-Type and R-Type II, as featured in the Japanese R-Types:

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/6431 ... jpnsl8.jpg
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/6862 ... jpnfx9.jpg

You basically are given two display modes: "fixed" (set screen to normal) and "wobble" (set screen to scroll).

If you play in wobble mode, the "adjustment" option cannot be altered. and you'll scroll up and down for the screen for a good 3 centimeters (roughly, I haven't measured them). In wobble mode the beam bar is on a black background, just as in R-Types PAL.

If you decide to play "normal", then you can adjust the screen up or down and you are also given the possibility to set the beam bar on the top of the screen or at the bottom. The beam bar is semi-transparent in this mode.

Now let's have a look at the games as featured in the PAL version of R-Types:

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/7428 ... palhu9.jpg
http://img368.imageshack.us/img368/5238 ... paljr3.jpg

What have they done? Basically they removed the wobble mode altogether, and decided to go for a fixed mode that uses the non-superimposed beam bar of Japanese's wobble mode.
However, the menu still has a vertical adjustment option, and even an horizontal one now. Thus:
Ceph wrote:whereas the PAL release actually features the full arcade screen.
is incorrect. Both fixed modes cannot display the full arcade screen at once. Sure the Pal one shows a little more lines, but still not enough to be completely full screen. And it does this at the expense of the usual Pal problem: stretched graphics.

So, what version is the best? Since wobble mode isn't a great feature to begin with, they could be considered even, although the Japanese version offers more options. However, have a close look at the R-9 and R-9c ships in the PAL version: the graphics are noticeably squatted. Whereas, goes without saying, graphics keep their original ratio in the Japanese version, regardless of fixed or scroll.

Here, I've taken a couple of screenshots of R-Type II JPN, to show the cockpit adjustment (interestingly the beam bar can be basically omitted if you set the bar to "top").

Beam bar "top", beam hidden:
http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/2474 ... tchlx1.jpg

Beam bar "bottom":
http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/8221 ... ch2ss1.jpg

In these two photos, I've set my 4:3 television to 16:9 mode, so you can see how close the R-9c PAL looks to an unnaturally stretched R-9c Jpn.

About the .hz, I won't comment. Although of course it would be best to compare speed with the original, instead of the DUO port.

Bottom line: I'd go for the Japanese one. It has the R Museum too. :)
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Post by Ganelon »

Does the JP version have anything the US version doesn't?
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Post by Ceph »

PAL has 625 lines (576 visible) NTSC only 525 (486 visible). That's quite a difference.
However, like I wrote above, the biggest disadvantage of the Japanese release is that it's running 5hz too fast, which in the case of R-Type makes quite a difference, and which is why the PAL release feels much more playable to me.
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Post by Turrican »

Ganelon wrote:Does the JP version have anything the US version doesn't?
Can't say for sure, I don't have an US version with me. Does the US version come with the Delta preview video and the R Museum?

R Museum Genealogy screenshots:

http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/3179/dscn0297ie6.jpg
http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/3913/dscn0301ns6.jpg
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/4516/dscn0310rx2.jpg
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/3405/dscn0300lp1.jpg
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/2037/dscn0305wl2.jpg

The Pal version is stripped of both :?
PAL has 625 lines (576 visible) NTSC only 525 (486 visible). That's quite a difference.
JPN fixed mode let me see basically both the borders of the screen, so I'd rather have some lines less and the correct aspect ratio for the whole game graphics, but that's just me.

I found a lot of the 50hz EU games to be tamer than their original counterparts, and therefore more enjoyable.
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Post by Ganelon »

Turrican wrote: Can't say for sure, I don't have an US version with me. Does the US version come with the Delta preview video and the R Museum?
Yeah.
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Post by Turrican »

Ganelon wrote:
Turrican wrote: Can't say for sure, I don't have an US version with me. Does the US version come with the Delta preview video and the R Museum?
Yeah.
Shouldn't have asked. Now I NEED one. :cry:

EDIT: how are your video options then? Like the JPN rev ("normal", "scroll") or like ours?
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Post by Ceph »

Like the Japanese release.
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Post by sideshow »

Yes, the US version does have the R-Museum. I've spent a good hour or two reading up on the history of the Bydo empire. Its a great feature for this retro release.
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Post by Mortificator »

Yeah, it was cool how the museum sort of set up a backstory for Delta.

There wasn't a Delta video in the U.S. game, though.
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Post by mr_m0nks »

i just got a pal copy of this, i didnt get any r type museum though :cry:
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Post by RuffNEC »

First I had only the PAL Release of R-TYPES which was fun to me but I always thought it isn't the real thing in 50hz. Then I played the Japanese Version of R-Types which was much faster and of course harder but i noticed I had either a scroll or stretched mode no original :(

So if I get a super gun with the r-type PCB I get the real deal ? Is there any supergun that can fit the image?
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Post by Alien Soldier »

RuffNEC wrote:First I had only the PAL Release of R-TYPES which was fun to me but I always thought it isn't the real thing in 50hz. Then I played the Japanese Version of R-Types which was much faster and of course harder but i noticed I had either a scroll or stretched mode no original :(

So if I get a super gun with the r-type PCB I get the real deal ? Is there any supergun that can fit the image?
I have one of these setup and yes you can fit the image but only if you get the right monitor along with it because you can't directly adjust the image from a supergun. Also, the blue color from my R-Type PCB is kinda weak. I'm not sure if all JPN R-Type PCBs suffer from this problem but if it's the case, you'll want a supergun with separate R,G and B adjustment to boost the blue color a bit. My supergun is a all-in-one type so there is all kind of outputs available on it and the only way to adjust the size of the image is to use the RGB output. That's why you need an RGB monitor. For exemple, my Mitsubishi AM-2752A have all the 4 horizontal and vertical adjustements to fit any image from any PCB and R-Type looks perfect on it. You'll most likely need to buy/build an RGB cable though.
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Post by RuffNEC »

what is the option "Wait Control" for?

Is it for the original pcb emulation ? On means like original and off means with no slowdowns?
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