What the cock is going on with STGT08?

The Coop · Post by **The Coop** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:07 am

A few ideas. I'm sure some have already been mentioned, but...

Technosoft Week
Toaplan Week
Doujin Week
Irem Week
Survive For Score Week (by this I mean, older shmups where your score is determined mostly by how long you survive, and not chains/links/insane bonuses/medaling/etc.)

Enhasa · Post by **Enhasa** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:10 am

GaijinPunch wrote:That may be the lamest insult I've seen on the internet, period. You're a disgrace to the forum.

I wasn't even making an insult. Stop being paranoid and learn to read! Also you are easily bent out of shape. You should work on that.

GaijinPunch wrote:EDIT: That comes off correcter.

No need to be bitter! Only your typos are funny because you are "most intelligent" and every other post of yours is criticizing someone's English or the English of shmups forum as a whole.

Ed Oscuro wrote:Enhasa said 2000+ because I'm not quite up to the next milestone yet.

Don't worry, even if I said 3000 you could just ++ in off topic until you got fakeposting privileges.

-Bridget- · Post by **-Bridget-** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:51 am

I'd like to say, "can we please not argue",

but it seems to be an STGT tradition that things randomly break down into flaming arguements of doom.

Who am I to argue with tradition?

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:37 am

Enhasa wrote: No need to be bitter! Only your typos are funny because you are "most intelligent" and every other post of yours is criticizing someone's English or the English of shmups forum as a whole.

That was on purpose, boy genius.

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:31 am

GaijinPunch wrote:
Enhasa wrote: No need to be bitter! Only your typos are funny because you are "most intelligent" and every other post of yours is criticizing someone's English or the English of shmups forum as a whole.
That was on purpose, boy genius.
[]

haha this whole thing made me think of "the trial", check this out you language nerds!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHknAtVs ... re=related

mikwuyma · Post by **mikwuyma** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:30 pm

Ok, so back to this thing called STGT '08.

Point System

It should be changed IMO, the current system gives high-scoring players a huge lead and makes point gaps huge among teams (see stgt 06 and stgt 07)

I propose the highest score should just be the number of teams x 3 (since each team gets three scores). This means the gap between each place is just one point, and that any team that completely rapes a week will still have to fight for future weeks.

Voting by PM mandatory

Yes. Enough said.

Doujin and Caravan weeks

I have no problem with a doujin week, and there seems to be some demand for it. The games are usually pretty easy and simple, making it easy for people to get into the game. The only question is what are some free doujins that are fun to play and don't have broken scoring systems. Also, should I include a Touhou game for this week (only one!)?

Caravan week is a great idea IMO, because Caravan games are easy to pick up and play, which is important since you only get a week of play. However, the only arcade caravan mode I know of is Dangun Feveron's time attack mode. Do we want to make a console exception for Caravan week? Or would that just make things too confusing?

I haven't looked up the games in this thread yet, but I know at least some of those games are console games.

I have one other idea, but I'm not sure if it would be popular (decreasing the game choices per week down to 3-4, since only 2 or 3 get high vote counts anyways).

orange · Post by **orange** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:08 pm

doujin week would only happen if we swapped our userbase for another one

moozooh · Post by **moozooh** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:12 pm

mikwuyma wrote:Also, should I include a Touhou game for this week (only one!)?

Yeah, that would be good. Imperishable Night (hard mode, I guess, will be good enough) seems to be the obvious choice with its simple and utterly forgiving scoring system and considerably engaging execution (not to mention easy practice). EoSD could also work, since it's also pretty simple to understand.

PCB and MoF will not work because their scoring systems are more demanding.

mikwuyma wrote:Do we want to make a console exception for Caravan week?

Well, I don't see why not. There are tons of usable emulators for the games of both 8- and 16-bit era that work on any system, and each of them is less confusing than MAME.

orange wrote:doujin week would only happen if we swapped our userbase for another one

This is very insightful, but I absolutely don't see why it's impossible to change the situation in some way. It sounds like you're denying it for the sole purpose of denying, even though you don't personally want the things to go the way you're suggesting.

orange · Post by **orange** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:40 pm

moozooh wrote:
orange wrote:doujin week would only happen if we swapped our userbase for another one
This is very insightful, but I absolutely don't see why it's impossible to change the situation in some way. It sounds like you're denying it for the sole purpose of denying, even though you don't personally want the things to go the way you're suggesting.

I'm just being a realist. :[

Zebra Airforce · Post by **Zebra Airforce** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:01 pm

Technosoft Week
Toaplan Week
Irem Week
Survive For Score Week

Aren't all of those "survive for score weeks"?

I'd rather not try and outloop Gradius II against a bunch of people who've been playing it for years and have mastered every safespot. Plus, anything that is going to take hours to finish is just a bad idea in general. There's a reason why caravan games are more popular for scoring.

This is very insightful, but I absolutely don't see why it's impossible to change the situation [no doujin] in some way.

It's simple: lots of people have lots of different setups. If we pick a doujin it has to be practical (sorry, no Hellsinker.) and available for a slew of OSs. MAME (and most emulators) is available for just about anybody and isn't that much of a resource hog.

moozooh · Post by **moozooh** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:06 pm

Well, that largely depends on the game selection, doesn't it? For instance, I know that Kenta Cho's games are available for a multitude of platforms and are very easy on the hardware, making it a perfect choice.

VorpalEdge · Post by **VorpalEdge** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:25 pm

Well, the Touhou games are windows only, unless you plan on dipping into the back end of pc-98 games. If we're worried about platforms, so much for them. I imagine that would go for a lot of popular doujins as well.

Before we do anything more than think "a doujin week would be a good idea", we'd need a list of doujin games that A: don't suck, and B: are multiplatform. We can't just have a Kenta Cho week (well, I wouldn't mind, but I imagine that won't fly).

orange · Post by **orange** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:32 pm

yeah because mame sure runs great on osx right guys

sikraiken · Post by **sikraiken** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:37 pm

http://mameosx.sourceforge.net/

Does it not work?

Blame the mac people if it doesn't. Also, bootcamp.

neo · Post by **neo** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:08 pm

VorpalEdge wrote:Well, the Touhou games are windows only, unless you plan on dipping into the back end of pc-98 games. If we're worried about platforms, so much for them. I imagine that would go for a lot of popular doujins as well.

The Touhou games and most of the other doujins run nearly flawlessly in linux with the latest version of wine, and this include popular doujins such as Blue Wish Resurrection and Cho Ren Sha 68k. Platform is only an issue for mac users.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:43 pm

Zebra Airforce wrote:
Technosoft Week
Toaplan Week
Irem Week
Survive For Score Week
Aren't all of those "survive for score weeks"?

Hyper Duel! Don't move or you lose!

mikwuyma wrote: I propose the highest score should just be the number of teams x 3 (since each team gets three scores). This means the gap between each place is just one point, and that any team that completely rapes a week will still have to fight for future weeks.

I think the point system is fine. The higher up you are the harder it is to get there, i.e. much easier to move 3 places/3 points in lower ranks, harder to move 1 spot etc. To make things more competitive there needs to be more competitive teams. There's no reason a single team should be able to "rape a week."

-Bridget- · Post by **-Bridget-** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:59 pm

VorpalEdge wrote:Well, the Touhou games are windows only, unless you plan on dipping into the back end of pc-98 games. If we're worried about platforms, so much for them. I imagine that would go for a lot of popular doujins as well.

Before we do anything more than think "a doujin week would be a good idea", we'd need a list of doujin games that A: don't suck, and B: are multiplatform. We can't just have a Kenta Cho week (well, I wouldn't mind, but I imagine that won't fly).

Not even just that...... but you have to consider that even computers of the same type can be dramatically different.

Also consider: Vista.

Im stuck with Vista on this machine here. This particular PC is a gaming powerhouse, BUT, there are certain things that it just wont run because...... VISTA interferes.

I have numerous doujin games on this machine, a few of the Touhous, BWR, and so on, but there are a few of those that simply will not run, for assorted moronic reasons.

Also,

It'd have to be a doujin that's free to download AND easily accessible TO download, for everyone to have a chance to participate......

KennyMan666 · Post by **KennyMan666** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:22 pm

So, yeah. Doujin ideas.

Freeware ones.

First of all, the one I believe to be the best freeware shmup ever made: Twin Seeds

Also, not-really-Touhou-I-promise, made by a bunch of drunkards: Uwabami Breakers

I'd suggest something by Kenta Cho, but those that I believe are his best games doesn't really fit to play for score... Gunroar would work, though.

Also also: Ultimate Stage

mikwuyma · Post by **mikwuyma** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:29 pm

Rob: I agree that the teams aren't competitive enough, including yours last year, but one team being 200 points ahead of the second place team isn't very encouraging. It was harder to get the top spots some weeks (twin bee yahhoo, since everyone was playing), but it was really easy to get the top spots in others (Darius Gaiden).

Kennyman666: Does Gunroar even end? If we had a Kenta Cho game available for voting, wouldn't Tumiki Fighters be best? That one has an end IIRC.

KennyMan666 · Post by **KennyMan666** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:58 pm

I seriously have no idea if Gunroar ever ends. Don't know about Tumiki either.

moozooh · Post by **moozooh** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:59 pm

Not sure about Tumiki, I'd rather play Titanion modern mode. Much more fun!

Davey · Post by **Davey** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:26 pm

Ayanami wrote:Plus I think my team mates have said that they would not compete in a tournament this year if it happened.

I'm probably not competing this time. 06 was hit-and-miss, so I was hesitant to sign up for 07. 07 pretty much sucked throughout, so I'm not too optimistic for 08. But it looks like there might be a lot of shakeup this time around so I might sign up if it sounds interesting.

Davey · Post by **Davey** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:33 pm

KennyMan666 wrote:I seriously have no idea if Gunroar ever ends. Don't know about Tumiki either.

I'm not too familiar with Tumiki, but I'm pretty sure Gunroar never ends. I'm not ambitious enough to dig through the source code to find out, though.

If it got picked for STGT08 my score would definitely get crushed. That could be motiving or disheartening, not really sure which.

EDIT:

KennyMan666 wrote:I'd suggest something by Kenta Cho, but those that I believe are his best games doesn't really fit to play for score...

Which games do you consider his best and why aren't they good to play for score? (I'm not trying to sound like a dick, I'm just curious.)

KennyMan666 · Post by **KennyMan666** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:50 pm

My favourites of his are rRootage, Noiz2sa and Torus Trooper. While Noiz2sa could be played for score in Endless Mode, I don't believe it's suited for a competition. And Torus Trooper is honestly more "YAY SPEED" than a good shooter. Also, endless. I think.

...y'know, I should try playing Torus Trooper with Yakety Sax playing in the background. Yakety Sax makes everything better, speedy things even more so.

Davey · Post by **Davey** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:15 pm

KennyMan666 wrote:My favourites of his are rRootage, Noiz2sa and Torus Trooper. While Noiz2sa could be played for score in Endless Mode, I don't believe it's suited for a competition. And Torus Trooper is honestly more "YAY SPEED" than a good shooter. Also, endless. I think.

I can't really comment on rRootage or Noiz2sa, but I pretty much agree with Torus Trooper. It's a fun game, but I don't think it would be a good game for a competition. Plus people would get all pedantic and shoot it down for not being a true shmup. You're right, it doesn't end (AFAIK).

Parsec47 would be a good one I think. Titanion might be good, although scores shoot up by leaps and bounds as you progress which might not be good (but not in a bullshitty way like in some past STGT games like Star Force and VP1).

KennyMan666 wrote:Yakety Sax makes everything better, speedy things even more so.

Undoubtedly.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:14 am

Voting via PM

Terrible idea since PM boxes are (relatively) small. Email for the win.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:55 am

GaijinPunch wrote:Email for the win.

BBH · Post by **BBH** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:06 am

sikraiken wrote:Why is Shock Troopers on your list, then?

why shouldn't it be allowed

it's mothafuckin' Shock Troopers

mikwuyma · Post by **mikwuyma** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:18 am

Okay, I didn't know the pm box was small (I almost never get pms). Email it is then.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:25 am

100 messages isn't enough room for votes?