There's a thread on this at killercabs, thought I'd cross post here in case anyone had any suggestions.
http://www.killercabs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15233
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvjCDGuvXEM
basically, alternate negative-image colors + buzzing sound on espgaluda II on most of the cabs (new net city / toshiba tri-sync). Works correctly one 1 of the cabs ( which is turned hori, naturally ) but cant figure out why. checked voltages, checked grounds as best we could, same on both the working and non-working cabs.
color distortion on espgaludaII / new net city toshiba
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Mr-Megalo
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I have the same monitor as I rebuilt a UK spec Naomi to JPN New Net City spec (tri sync toshiba, proper Sega SD legs and NNC conversion kit)
can I ask, are you using the VGA port on the monitor for feeding RGB and sync signals to the monitor at 15k, or are you using the tyco amp connector ?
can I ask, are you using the VGA port on the monitor for feeding RGB and sync signals to the monitor at 15k, or are you using the tyco amp connector ?
do you play games ?
www.we-play-games.com
www.we-play-games.com
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Mr-Megalo
- Posts: 44
- Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:00 pm
- Location: somewhere in the UK, looking for my stealthsuit
also, go into your OSD menu on other cabs, if oyur lucky enough to have several tri sync toshiba's check things like brightness, contrast levels etc.
I know from experience that when running 15k stuff I had to alter those levels when going from 31k to 15k
no need to join the sync lines if the screen actuallly syncs, you would only need to have joined H&V sync if your having screen rolling issues (like the AWSD with Neo Geo multislots need joined sync, but CPS3 needs the synclines to be single)
I know from experience that when running 15k stuff I had to alter those levels when going from 31k to 15k
no need to join the sync lines if the screen actuallly syncs, you would only need to have joined H&V sync if your having screen rolling issues (like the AWSD with Neo Geo multislots need joined sync, but CPS3 needs the synclines to be single)
do you play games ?
www.we-play-games.com
www.we-play-games.com
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Mr-Megalo
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- Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:00 pm
- Location: somewhere in the UK, looking for my stealthsuit
I dont want to sound arogant, but its going to be OSD settings i'm 99% certain of it but theres always the odd chance I could be wrong
I can take pics of mine later with everything all cranked up and show similar effects if that helps, but if you say it is fine in certain sections, then its going to be OSD settings, i'm sure of it
its basically down to RGB levels differing in 31k and 15k, with things like the AWSD / Wei Ya M31 series, theres a small switch to alter - no such thing on the Nanao MS29-31 (Blast City 2nd revision monitor and Net City monitor in Japan) or the tri sync toshiba in the New Net City
the MS29-30 found in the first revision Blast Citys has a similar dipswitch as the Wei Ya
I can take pics of mine later with everything all cranked up and show similar effects if that helps, but if you say it is fine in certain sections, then its going to be OSD settings, i'm sure of it
its basically down to RGB levels differing in 31k and 15k, with things like the AWSD / Wei Ya M31 series, theres a small switch to alter - no such thing on the Nanao MS29-31 (Blast City 2nd revision monitor and Net City monitor in Japan) or the tri sync toshiba in the New Net City
the MS29-30 found in the first revision Blast Citys has a similar dipswitch as the Wei Ya
do you play games ?
www.we-play-games.com
www.we-play-games.com
Thanks for the suggestion, Mr Megalo. I did actually try changing the OSD settings (I adjusted the Contrast, Brightness, H-Size, V-Size, H-Pos, and V-Pos all the way up and down) but I'll try writing down the exact settings of the cabinet that the PCB is working in, and then match them on the malfunctioning cab. I'll report back later on when I get a chance to test.Mr-Megalo wrote:I dont want to sound arogant, but its going to be OSD settings i'm 99% certain of it but theres always the odd chance I could be wrong
I can take pics of mine later with everything all cranked up and show similar effects if that helps, but if you say it is fine in certain sections, then its going to be OSD settings, i'm sure of it
its basically down to RGB levels differing in 31k and 15k, with things like the AWSD / Wei Ya M31 series, theres a small switch to alter - no such thing on the Nanao MS29-31 (Blast City 2nd revision monitor and Net City monitor in Japan) or the tri sync toshiba in the New Net City
the MS29-30 found in the first revision Blast Citys has a similar dipswitch as the Wei Ya
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Mr-Megalo
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- Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:00 pm
- Location: somewhere in the UK, looking for my stealthsuit
hmm, that is strange, I yanked my brightness and contrast waaaay up to test this myself earlier with SFA3 and got some serious colour bleeding.
let me whip the back monitor cover off of my New Net tomorrow (its like 3am here at the moment) and see if there are any other pots or switches on the chassis for adjustment.
whats strange is, I am running the same setup as you guys, Riverservice JAMMA loom to a VGA header which in turn connects to a VGA cable going up to the monitor's VGA port above the tyco amp connector.
just as an FYI, my contrast is at 25, brightness is 15
edit:
I know these Toshiba Tri Syncs dont get on well with Seibu Kaihatsu games as they have an odd sync rate and the Toshiba IIRC syncs at 60hz, stuff like Raiden Fighters is 54.5 or something IIRC.
do you guys cabs have the original PSU's installed, have you checked voltage levels on 5v and 12v lines.
let me whip the back monitor cover off of my New Net tomorrow (its like 3am here at the moment) and see if there are any other pots or switches on the chassis for adjustment.
whats strange is, I am running the same setup as you guys, Riverservice JAMMA loom to a VGA header which in turn connects to a VGA cable going up to the monitor's VGA port above the tyco amp connector.
just as an FYI, my contrast is at 25, brightness is 15
edit:
I know these Toshiba Tri Syncs dont get on well with Seibu Kaihatsu games as they have an odd sync rate and the Toshiba IIRC syncs at 60hz, stuff like Raiden Fighters is 54.5 or something IIRC.
do you guys cabs have the original PSU's installed, have you checked voltage levels on 5v and 12v lines.
do you play games ?
www.we-play-games.com
www.we-play-games.com
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Mr-Megalo
- Posts: 44
- Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:00 pm
- Location: somewhere in the UK, looking for my stealthsuit
okay, so i've just whipped the back off of my New Net City (its late, but not i'm not exactly tired so thought what the hell) as I am sure I read on the monitor that it was 50/60hz - it is
anyways, there are no pots on the chassis or the neckboard to alter RGB ccolour levels - seems they are IC controlled, so maybe theres a way to get into an extra sub menu to alter these like the Wei Ya M2929D-2 chassis
and I was mistaken - the amp connector isn't actually above the VGA connector, its to the side of it (been awhile since I installed this monitor
)
BOTH the VGA and amp connector have lines for both horizontal and vertical sync going from there respective connectors to the chassis
I can see only one pot on the chassis, what its use is I do not know,
same as the 3 position switch,
no idea what its for (although if its anything like the Nanao this may be in place instead of the "width" jumper found on the MS8 and MS9 chassis's) and as I have no manual for the Toshiba PD1843 Tri Sync Monitor I wouldn't like to hazzard a guess at whether I am right in these thoughts or start randomly changing them as this is now my only monitor and cabinet.
might be worth using the pics above to check with other sources (KC, or Joey @ http://www.jomac.net.au/ in Australia, or maybe even Ken @ " I repair Sega " http://www.irepairsega.com to see if any of those guys can shed any light on the problem
do you guys have a "JVS to JAMMA" convertor to test ESP Galuda II with instead of the JAMMA loom ?
anyways, there are no pots on the chassis or the neckboard to alter RGB ccolour levels - seems they are IC controlled, so maybe theres a way to get into an extra sub menu to alter these like the Wei Ya M2929D-2 chassis
and I was mistaken - the amp connector isn't actually above the VGA connector, its to the side of it (been awhile since I installed this monitor
)BOTH the VGA and amp connector have lines for both horizontal and vertical sync going from there respective connectors to the chassis
I can see only one pot on the chassis, what its use is I do not know,
same as the 3 position switch,
no idea what its for (although if its anything like the Nanao this may be in place instead of the "width" jumper found on the MS8 and MS9 chassis's) and as I have no manual for the Toshiba PD1843 Tri Sync Monitor I wouldn't like to hazzard a guess at whether I am right in these thoughts or start randomly changing them as this is now my only monitor and cabinet.
might be worth using the pics above to check with other sources (KC, or Joey @ http://www.jomac.net.au/ in Australia, or maybe even Ken @ " I repair Sega " http://www.irepairsega.com to see if any of those guys can shed any light on the problem
do you guys have a "JVS to JAMMA" convertor to test ESP Galuda II with instead of the JAMMA loom ?
do you play games ?
www.we-play-games.com
www.we-play-games.com
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Mr-Megalo
- Posts: 44
- Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:00 pm
- Location: somewhere in the UK, looking for my stealthsuit
Dave, if they have the same Toshiba Tri Sync then yes it has 2 inputs, although the RGB connector is has RGB HV and ground.
I asked about the JVS?JAMMA convertor as I have one from a Windy II which when used doesn't display the over saturated colours so I reckon that automatically drops the RGB levels.
I asked about the JVS?JAMMA convertor as I have one from a Windy II which when used doesn't display the over saturated colours so I reckon that automatically drops the RGB levels.
do you play games ?
www.we-play-games.com
www.we-play-games.com
I have no idea where this would be or what connections would be needed for this.Dave_K. wrote:Are there two inputs on the monitor? Because VGA input is usually amplified, which looks like whats happening to your 15khz signal colors over saturating after the screen blanks between scenes. Try using the 5 pin RGBS input for 15khz games and I bet it will be fine.
Unfortunately, I don't have a RS JVS->JAMMA converter to test with. I've heard that it converts video just fine, but has trouble with the controller inputs. To me, that's just as bad as what's going on with my monitor now (either way, you can't really play).Mr-Megalo wrote:I asked about the JVS?JAMMA convertor as I have one from a Windy II which when used doesn't display the over saturated colours so I reckon that automatically drops the RGB levels.
FYI, we did test different values for the +5v (we adjusted between 4.90 and 5.10 with no difference). The value on the working cabinet was 5.02, but adjusting to that made no difference. When we try to take a +12v reading with the multimeter, it goes nuts and doesn't seem to get a stable reading (but this also happens on the working cabinet). It's probably just the multimeter we tried (cody and I both have the same one).
The point is that the levels are different for VGA and CGA/EGA.
A 15/24Khz (CGA/EGA) game outputs 1.5 Vpp to 5 Vpp and expects around 1K ohm impedance.
A 31 Khz (VGA game) outputs around 0.7 Vpp and expects 75 ohm impedance.
Normally a chassis has a jumper to select the impedance or alternatly two connectors. If you put a 15 Khz analog signal into the VGA input or at VGA impedance you will saturate the colours.
rtw
A 15/24Khz (CGA/EGA) game outputs 1.5 Vpp to 5 Vpp and expects around 1K ohm impedance.
A 31 Khz (VGA game) outputs around 0.7 Vpp and expects 75 ohm impedance.
Normally a chassis has a jumper to select the impedance or alternatly two connectors. If you put a 15 Khz analog signal into the VGA input or at VGA impedance you will saturate the colours.
rtw
http://world-of-arcades.net
The future of ST-V rests upon our work and your work
The future of ST-V rests upon our work and your work
I always thought the point of a tri-sync monitor was to avoid this issue.rtw wrote:The point is that the levels are different for VGA and CGA/EGA.
A 15/24Khz (CGA/EGA) game outputs 1.5 Vpp to 5 Vpp and expects around 1K ohm impedance.
A 31 Khz (VGA game) outputs around 0.7 Vpp and expects 75 ohm impedance.
Normally a chassis has a jumper to select the impedance or alternatly two connectors. If you put a 15 Khz analog signal into the VGA input or at VGA impedance you will saturate the colours.
rtw
Do you think the impedance switch could be the one on the chassis in Mr-Megalo's second picture?
The only way I have found to solve this issue in the easiest manner is to use the VGA cable and a NAMCO JVS->JAMMA adapter.fubarduck wrote:I always thought the point of a tri-sync monitor was to avoid this issue.
Do you think the impedance switch could be the one on the chassis in Mr-Megalo's second picture?
It might be the impedance switch, I can't read what it says though.
If you look at Mr Megalos first picture it looks like your chassis has two connectors. One 31k & one 15/24k.
rtw
http://world-of-arcades.net
The future of ST-V rests upon our work and your work
The future of ST-V rests upon our work and your work
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Mr-Megalo
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rtw, the Tri Sync monitors that I have dealt with in Windy II, Blast City 2nd Revision monitor (MS29-31Auto) Net City and New Net City all accept 15/24/31k signal Via VGA, but as you pointed out there are better results if when used with a JVS>JAMMA adaptor as that is likely to drops the RGB "TTL" levels down, in the case of the Blast City 2nd Rev, both monitor inputs are used.
with monitors like the Rodotron CH666 series or Wei Ya M31 series, they have a switch on the remote board they have a switch to go from 75ohms to 1k, the Nanao MS29-30 is the same, the Wei Ya M2929D series has 2 connector points (RGB HV and VGA socket) and again is the same, it accepts 15k signals fine via the VGA port too, nice thing about the Wei Ya M2929D is it auto syncs with boards like ESPGaluda II and other Cave games with no rolling screen sync issues at all, I fitted one of these for Superpang earlier this year, even 15k quality is really good
swings and roundabouts with how alot of these monitors reactsometimes with certain PCB's
@ Fubarduck, okay you may not be keen to use the Riverservice JVS>JAMMA board as some people reported input lag/latency issues, I personally never had this problem except when using a J-Pac and a MAME PC setup, the issue was more apparent when using J-Pac and the Ultimarc Dreamcast adaptors and Total Control + convertors, with that setup there are some quite serious latency issues.
however the alternative solution is as rtw said to use either a Namco JVS>JAMMA board or one from a Konami Windy II. I opted for one from the Konami Windy II as I have had several of the ones from the Namco Cyberlead, and the VGA port on those doesn't seem as hardwearing in comparison, I can't comment on input lag/ latency with the Konami adaptor and J-Pac etc as i've not had the opportunity to test them with it.
as for the switch, hey i'll throw my hands up in the air here and say i've absolutely noo idea, and apologies but i'm not brave enough to try it on this occasion (ask a few folk, usually i'm the first to dive in headd first and think f*ck it if it breaks i'll replace it or get it fixed) but not on this occasion, simply because this monitor cost me over £1000 GBP from Sega last year, and as its now my only CRT monitor i'm not willing to throw caution to the wind on this occasion, especially as I don't know of any aftermarket replacement chassis to be used on the Flat Screen Toshiba tube, if this Toshiba chassis breaks, theres little to no chance of it getting fixed., however - if you have several of these monitors, you know the one that displays ESP Galuda II with no problems, whip the rear monitor cover off, and take a look at the switch, it may be in a different position to the monitors that display the issue. in honesty your in a better position to help me/us learn if that switch is used for width adjustment or not just by comparing the position of the switch on say the "working" monitor with a "non working" monitor (when reffering to this issue of course)
with monitors like the Rodotron CH666 series or Wei Ya M31 series, they have a switch on the remote board they have a switch to go from 75ohms to 1k, the Nanao MS29-30 is the same, the Wei Ya M2929D series has 2 connector points (RGB HV and VGA socket) and again is the same, it accepts 15k signals fine via the VGA port too, nice thing about the Wei Ya M2929D is it auto syncs with boards like ESPGaluda II and other Cave games with no rolling screen sync issues at all, I fitted one of these for Superpang earlier this year, even 15k quality is really good
swings and roundabouts with how alot of these monitors reactsometimes with certain PCB's
@ Fubarduck, okay you may not be keen to use the Riverservice JVS>JAMMA board as some people reported input lag/latency issues, I personally never had this problem except when using a J-Pac and a MAME PC setup, the issue was more apparent when using J-Pac and the Ultimarc Dreamcast adaptors and Total Control + convertors, with that setup there are some quite serious latency issues.
however the alternative solution is as rtw said to use either a Namco JVS>JAMMA board or one from a Konami Windy II. I opted for one from the Konami Windy II as I have had several of the ones from the Namco Cyberlead, and the VGA port on those doesn't seem as hardwearing in comparison, I can't comment on input lag/ latency with the Konami adaptor and J-Pac etc as i've not had the opportunity to test them with it.
as for the switch, hey i'll throw my hands up in the air here and say i've absolutely noo idea, and apologies but i'm not brave enough to try it on this occasion (ask a few folk, usually i'm the first to dive in headd first and think f*ck it if it breaks i'll replace it or get it fixed) but not on this occasion, simply because this monitor cost me over £1000 GBP from Sega last year, and as its now my only CRT monitor i'm not willing to throw caution to the wind on this occasion, especially as I don't know of any aftermarket replacement chassis to be used on the Flat Screen Toshiba tube, if this Toshiba chassis breaks, theres little to no chance of it getting fixed., however - if you have several of these monitors, you know the one that displays ESP Galuda II with no problems, whip the rear monitor cover off, and take a look at the switch, it may be in a different position to the monitors that display the issue. in honesty your in a better position to help me/us learn if that switch is used for width adjustment or not just by comparing the position of the switch on say the "working" monitor with a "non working" monitor (when reffering to this issue of course)
do you play games ?
www.we-play-games.com
www.we-play-games.com
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Mr-Megalo
- Posts: 44
- Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:00 pm
- Location: somewhere in the UK, looking for my stealthsuit
I got my Windy II version from Yahoo Japan Auctions, the Cyberlead ones again can be found on YHJ mostly, occasionally on eBay. or if by chance that someone is breaking a Cybelead.
you could ask Matsu if he has any, I know he had some Cyberleads a couple of years ago
you could ask Matsu if he has any, I know he had some Cyberleads a couple of years ago
do you play games ?
www.we-play-games.com
www.we-play-games.com
http://page6.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/f64365090fubarduck wrote:Where can I get one of these?
Time to join Rinkya or Shopping Mall Japan
rtw
http://world-of-arcades.net
The future of ST-V rests upon our work and your work
The future of ST-V rests upon our work and your work
Thanks for the link!rtw wrote:http://page6.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/f64365090fubarduck wrote:Where can I get one of these?
Time to join Rinkya or Shopping Mall Japan
rtw
Guess what? I got the adapter today, works perfectly, no more bad colors.rtw wrote:http://page6.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/f64365090fubarduck wrote:Where can I get one of these?
Time to join Rinkya or Shopping Mall Japan
rtw
Only problem is . . .
"Coin" doesn't work. Every other button works. The coin counter also still counts up when I activate the switch, so it isn't broken. Is this an issue with these adapters? Anyone know a fix?
Just to give a resolution to this issue . . .
Upon opening the monitor & taking closer look at the chassis, there are 2 sets of rgbhv pins on the main board of the chassis (you can see these in the lower right hand corner of mr-megalo's 2nd picture. One was wired to the vga connector, the other to an tyco amp-style connector as was mentioned. However, there were only power connections going to the amp-style connector, not rgb (who knows why). Rather than putting additional wires in, we just undid the connectors on the main board of the chassis & swapped them, so that the vga connector is running to the (apparently) higher-impedance rgb pins on the chassis.
Espgaluda II board displays fine now. What's more, an ST board that was resetting at match start has also started working on that cab now
Oh, and that switch he circled says "h center" or something along those lines; we tried all 3 positions without much change.
Upon opening the monitor & taking closer look at the chassis, there are 2 sets of rgbhv pins on the main board of the chassis (you can see these in the lower right hand corner of mr-megalo's 2nd picture. One was wired to the vga connector, the other to an tyco amp-style connector as was mentioned. However, there were only power connections going to the amp-style connector, not rgb (who knows why). Rather than putting additional wires in, we just undid the connectors on the main board of the chassis & swapped them, so that the vga connector is running to the (apparently) higher-impedance rgb pins on the chassis.
Espgaluda II board displays fine now. What's more, an ST board that was resetting at match start has also started working on that cab now
Oh, and that switch he circled says "h center" or something along those lines; we tried all 3 positions without much change.
Re: color distortion on espgaludaII / new net city toshiba
Sorry to bump this thread but thanks so much cody! I was having the same situation on my Egret 3 with the rare Toshiba PF monitor combo. it looked like games had a "negative" image. The contrast seemed too high, but when I tried to bump it down all the other colors would get too dim. But when the game would switch screens by fading out it looked like it would be just right! Plus when I connected a VGA source (Xbox 360) the picture was so dim.
It really became apparent when dannysaigon brought Deathsmiles to the shmupmeet and it just looked all too bright/negative image. Happening on this thread I located the two RBHV connectors (the one that leads to the VGA d-sub connector and the one that leads to the AMP connector which are side by side.) All I did was swap the two connectors, no need to rewire, just swap the connectors making sure the color wires matched and voila! the problem was fixed. Voila! This really saved me the trouble of renting a truck, bringing the whole cab into P&L and who knows what would have happened?
I love this forum.
--the F-man
It really became apparent when dannysaigon brought Deathsmiles to the shmupmeet and it just looked all too bright/negative image. Happening on this thread I located the two RBHV connectors (the one that leads to the VGA d-sub connector and the one that leads to the AMP connector which are side by side.) All I did was swap the two connectors, no need to rewire, just swap the connectors making sure the color wires matched and voila! the problem was fixed. Voila! This really saved me the trouble of renting a truck, bringing the whole cab into P&L and who knows what would have happened?
I love this forum.
--the F-man
