Is Mushihimesama Futari really the hardest?

GrimoreLibrarian · Post by **GrimoreLibrarian** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 7:14 am

I've been wondering this lately, but is it really the hardest shmup? Or is there some arcade machine sitting in a biker bar, causing grown men to cry in frustration?

Plasmo · Post by **Plasmo** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 8:59 am

If you're playing Ultra mode, this is probably really THE hardest game, yes. The other two modes are moderate.

oxtsu · Post by **oxtsu** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 7:09 pm

It's one of the easiest (original mode).

btw, where'd you jack that avatar from? :wink:

hermosaguy · Post by **hermosaguy** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 8:13 pm

Its one of the more fun games for my tastes. Ultra is way too hard, but Maniac is just the right amount of chaos for me.

MX7 · Post by **MX7** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 8:34 pm

I'm not sure if a special mode could be considered in a 'which game is hardest' argument. Both Mushihimesama games have 3 different modes, which makes them pretty easy to access. Ultra mode for the first Mushi at least was started after the development of the main game, and it was very much seen as a bonus. For sheer bloody minded difficulty with no easier modes to hide behind, I still think DOJ is the hardest of the modern shooters.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 11:30 pm

The other two modes are moderate.

Original Mode is far from moderate. 1.0 could've been considered as such, but 1.5 is definitely catered to the noob. Ultra is just crazy.

However, I think it's hard to define what *the* hardest is. I'm sure there's some other old ass games that haven't been 1CC'ed by as many people. You hear people bitch about the Rayxanbers and Image Fight all the time, although I never really followed them much more than that.

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 11:46 pm

It's probably the hardest among danmaku games that have clever, balanced difficulty. (ultra mode obiously)

Damocles · Post by **Damocles** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 11:56 pm

Silver Surfer kills them all.

ForceDevice · Post by **ForceDevice** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:31 am

PROMETHEUS wrote:It's probably the hardest among danmaku games that have clever, balanced difficulty. (ultra mode obiously)

^that's it. I'd have 1CC'd Futari's Ultra Mode a thousand times before I could loop Gradius III even once. You can't judge overall difficulty, what's hard for some might be a joke for others.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:38 am

ForceDevice wrote: I'd have 1CC'd Futari's Ultra Mode a thousand times before I could loop Gradius III even once.

LOL. I don't think so. You obviously haven't played Futari Ultra.

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 3:19 am

I haven't played it yet, but since the modes aren't "normal", it's a toss up between Ketsui or DOJ.

ForceDevice · Post by **ForceDevice** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 4:01 am

EOJ wrote:
ForceDevice wrote: I'd have 1CC'd Futari's Ultra Mode a thousand times before I could loop Gradius III even once.
LOL. I don't think so. You obviously haven't played Futari Ultra.

You obviously don't know how much I suck at Gradius. ._.

Actually, I think both would take me a lifetime to 1CC. But you got my point.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 4:30 am

Not being much of a Gradius fan, I wouldn't know, but isn't it pretty impossible to clear once you die after the first couple of stages? At least w/ Futari you have bombs if you fuck something up... although you can't really do this that often in the game and still clear it.

orange · Post by **orange** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 4:47 am

in gradius 3 the game should just reboot once you die once

also fuck the bubble stage

Zebra Airforce · Post by **Zebra Airforce** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:10 am

Bubble stage is ez with at least 1 option plus laser. Fucked if you continue too late in the stage, tho. It's possible to rebound from alot of checkpoints, but some are just retarded.

GrimoreLibrarian · Post by **GrimoreLibrarian** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:13 am

Wow, I never knew the people in this forum have discussions like this before. Most other forums I've been to you only see stupid questions/answers that derail the whole thread

oxtsu wrote: btw, where'd you jack that avatar from?

Um... no where in particular...

Plasmo · Post by **Plasmo** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:32 am

Gradius III is NOTHING compared to Futari Ultra. If your really sit down and play Gradius II for the next 3-4 months, you probably have the clear. Spend the next 1-2 years on Ultra and maybe you can reach the final boss.

Post by **system11** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:25 am

I very much like the way some new Cave games have something to offer to all levels of skill. Both Mushis have multiple modes, Deathsmiles had difficulty levels, the Galudas are as easy or hard as you want them to be depending on scoring tactics. They should make sure something like that is in every game really, it widens the audience considerably.

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:28 am

bloodflowers wrote:I very much like the way some new Cave games have something to offer to all levels of skill. Both Mushis have multiple modes, Deathsmiles had difficulty levels, the Galudas are as easy or hard as you want them to be depending on scoring tactics. They should make sure something like that is in every game really, it widens the audience considerably.

+1

FIL · Post by **FIL** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 3:25 pm

The official shmups forum skill test is the hardest.

drboom · Post by **drboom** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 3:59 pm

Ketsui's pretty hard for sure as is DOJ. Mushi Ultra is brutal and so is Futari 1.5's Ultra (more brutal?).
For old skool titles, Dragon Spirit is ridiculous. I'm not sure if its at all possible to 1cc.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:03 am

the Galudas are as easy or hard

I don't think Galuda 2 is ever "easy". It has a risk vs. reward thing just as many as any Cave game, so scoring will always make the game harder. Using kakusei for safety runs very thin somewhere around stage 4 though (when the game gets hard). The gems just run out to fast, and you still have to point-blank enemies to get a decent amount of them. Also features some of the longest boss fights in a Cave game yet.

I find the first Galuda harder to score in rather than hard when scoring. It requires quite a bit of precision.

BryanM · Post by **BryanM** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:35 am

drboom wrote:For old skool titles, Dragon Spirit is ridiculous. I'm not sure if its at all possible to 1cc.

I don't know why they even bothered to make anything past stage 3 in that thing.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:56 am

GaijinPunch wrote:
the Galudas are as easy or hard
I don't think Galuda 2 is ever "easy". It has a risk vs. reward thing just as many as any Cave game, so scoring will always make the game harder. Using kakusei for safety runs very thin somewhere around stage 4 though (when the game gets hard). The gems just run out to fast, and you still have to point-blank enemies to get a decent amount of them. Also features some of the longest boss fights in a Cave game yet.

Agreed. The main people who claim Espgaluda 2 is easy (even just compared to other CAVE games) are douchebags like icycalm who haven't actually 1CC'd the game. Personally, I think God mode in Mushi Futari Black label is easier to clear than Galuda 2. And I'm talking about a pure survival Galuda 2 clear here. It's definitely not easy, no matter what you do, mainly due to the atrocious last level and ridiculously long final boss fight.

Espgaluda, on the other hand, really can be quite easy in a pure survival 1CC. People really need to stop lumping Galuda 1 and Galuda 2 into "the Galudas". They're night and day in terms of difficulty.

zlk · Post by **zlk** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:42 am

EOJ wrote: Agreed. The main people who claim Espgaluda 2 is easy (even just compared to other CAVE games) are douchebags like icycalm who haven't actually 1CC'd the game. Personally, I think God mode in Mushi Futari Black label is easier to clear than Galuda 2. And I'm talking about a pure survival Galuda 2 clear here.

I still haven't 1cc'd Galuda 2, but I think God mode in Futari BL is way harder. G2 doesn't seem trivial to 1cc, but it definitely isn't as hard as ketsui, doj, or ddp. I would say a G2 clear is just slightly easier than a DF clear minus the TLB. G2 is harder than esprade, guwange, or espgaluda but not as hard as DF.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:17 am

zlk wrote: I still haven't 1cc'd Galuda 2, but I think God mode in Futari BL is way harder. G2 doesn't seem trivial to 1cc, but it definitely isn't as hard as ketsui, doj, or ddp. I would say a G2 clear is just slightly easier than a DF clear minus the TLB. G2 is harder than esprade, guwange, or espgaluda but not as hard as DF.

How much God Mode have you played? They both took me about 3 weeks to clear. Mind you I was probably a bit better in general by the time Futari BL came out, but I was also very familiar w/ the stage layout, enemy placement, and scoring from pretty much the get go. There was basically no learning aside from bullet patterns.

God mode isn't that hard of a clear, really. It's a step up from Maniac, but it's not a huge step up. There's plenty of slow down, and the shot power is crazy. In fact, there are many places (stage 4, anyone?) that are easier in God than 1.5 Maniac.

but it definitely isn't as hard as ketsui, doj, or ddp

G2 is harder than esprade, guwange, or espgaluda

I'd say your assessment is pretty much spot on, except for DDP. With the bomb whore. factor, it's tipped into the easy spectrum. That one took me less than a week. And I assume you're talking about a 2-loop clear for DFK?

EDIT: Aaah, 2-loop DDP. Yeah, that's a tough cookie. It'll be rare to find a single loop game harder to clear than a 2. I think the Mushi Ultras are the exception. Far from the rule.

indstr · Post by **indstr** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:13 pm

Anybody else think that Abadox is hard as a motherfucker??? Not that I have a lot of experience with oldschool shmups, but this one is practically impenetrable to me

MX7 · Post by **MX7** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:05 pm

indstr wrote:Anybody else think that Abadox is hard as a motherfucker??? Not that I have a lot of experience with oldschool shmups, but this one is practically impenetrable to me

Yeah, it's hellish, seriously. I'd honestly say it was about 100000 x harder than DOJ. I really can't get on with such old shmups

MathU · Post by **MathU** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:39 am

I don't know, I've played Futari and I still say Gradius III arcade and Image Fight are harder.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:29 am

I've played Futari

And how long did Ultra on defaults take for you to clear?