what do you love about shmups?

jonny5 · Post by **jonny5** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:51 pm

i brought my PS2 to my buddies last night and was playing some mushi...people were blown away by it......same thing when i put on DDP DOJ and ESPgaluda......nobody would play them but it was agreed that they were 'cool games'....

then my buddies girlfriend comes in and asks, 'what the hell is with you and these crazy 'chinese' games?'

and this fairly ignorant question actually got me thinking....what is it about these games that i find so addictive?

after some thought i came to the conclusion that i love the patterns....the complexity of it all.....i love everything about the games, but its definitely all about the patterns for me...

probably why i like Cave, and danmaku games in general, so much

so lets hear what everybody else has to say on the subject....

Aru-san · Post by **Aru-san** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:59 pm

"What're you trying to tell me? That I can dodge bullets?"
- Thomas "Neo" Anderson, The Matrix

Here are my three reasons why I like shmups:

- Playing for survival is extremely challenging, yet anticipating and fun.
- Playing for score is frustrating, yet persevering and addictive.
- Genre's concept perfectly follows KISS. Keep It Simple, Stupid. (as seen in Japon : Histoire du Shooting Game, the concept is simple: shoot, dodge, destroy, repeat)

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 5:16 pm

well... basically i used to live on an american airforce base as a kid, which had a kickass arcade, and i used to play tons of street fighter and a WWII shooter called fire shark. when we moved to england, i took up playing guitar and whatnot, so i kinda missed the whole 3D revolution. i remember my mate showing me gta3, and i was like "there's a playstation two now...!?", and they'd been out for about a year and a half

so in some ways i don't think i can cut it with the modern games. everything has long tutorials, is X hours long, etc. just not my thing really. the street fighter love never went away, and i think most people can see the enduring appeal of those games. but why shooters as well? it was ikaruga that got me hooked. part of it is leaderboards. before the recent-ish launch of xbla, leaderboards were starkly missing from modern games/gaming. and if you're playing for score, even if you go on to beat the game, you're still playing against yourself. and as you could always get a better score, you find yourself returning to the same old games time and time again. 2 minutes to learn, 20 minutes to complete, and a lifetime to master.

brokenhalo · Post by **brokenhalo** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 5:18 pm

i love how demanding they are. there is nothing like starting on a new shmup and just absolutely getting your ass handed to you. then you sit down and really start learning the game. patterns, behaviors, systems. and as you progress your one credit keeps getting longer and longer. the feeling of accomplishment when you finally nail that 1cc totally makes it all worth it.

BIL · Post by **BIL** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 5:24 pm

Tremendous replayability and scope for personal improvement in a no-nonsense, yet often very stylish package. Not to use the phrase "personal improvement" too dubiously! But I regard shooters as a great hobby, something to work at over time rather than play, put down and move on.

jonny5 · Post by **jonny5** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 5:25 pm

i just find it so funny that when i explain the games to people they scoff at them like they are easy old games.....

but when they see them they are blown away and often too scared to even play them.....

mind you they probably do seem overwhelming when you have never seen a cave bullet patterns and dont get the concept of the hitbox.....

i often get the 'hey your cheating....your arent getting hit' comments, until i point out the little glowing thingy....then they shut up and drool some more....

shmups are pure games.....you against the game.....overwhelming at first but with experience comes power......

be attitude for gains!!1!!11

elfhentaifan · Post by **elfhentaifan** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 5:46 pm

its the addiction to see beautiful bullet arts (best example mushi) and dance with your ship between them.
I cant survive the day without playing at least one single credit in a game, where you dodge bulletspam.
Unkown, if its healthier than somking, though

BIL · Post by **BIL** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 6:10 pm

I once put down the booze for a few hours' Rayforce. :9

kengou · Post by **kengou** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 6:18 pm

"There is nothing more exhilarating than to be shot at without result." -Winston Churchill

I think that sums it up nicely.

Jockel · Post by **Jockel** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 6:33 pm

Now that's a great thread idea

I really like it, when i see some sort of progress in my own skills.
It's still not much, but i totally enjoy the games and that's what counts, right?
My Cave-Shirt (thankies, lordstar) got me in a few conversations, that usually went something like that:
"Cave? What's that? Nick Cave?"
"No, it's a software company. They produce danmakus."
"What?"
"Bullet hell games"
"What?"
"Shoot em ups"
"Huh?"
"2D Arcade Games, where you shoot everything."
"Like Halo?"
"2D."
"..."
etc. ^^

Post by **spadgy** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:02 pm

I just love the whole bundle.

The challenge, the thrill of doing well and scoring despite the intensity, the trippy nature of the bullet patterns, the fact that they feel like the gaming equivalent to going out raving, the community on this here site, the basic story of one tiny vehicle (me likes the spaceships best) against all odds, the focus needed to play, the look they put on peoples' faces, the adrenalin caused by playing, and last but not least, the atmosphere of a real arcade full of friendly regulars!

Frederik · Post by **Frederik** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:04 pm

jonny5 wrote: after some thought i came to the conclusion that i love the patterns....the complexity of it all.....i love everything about the games, but its definitely all about the patterns for me...

This.

Other games can be very challenging too, but mastering clever patterns is what drew me in and keeps me coming back to shmups. (I´m losing my patience waiting for Ketsui DS btw)

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:21 pm

the challenge and the competition are proboably the main draws for me.

Damocles · Post by **Damocles** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:40 pm

Difficulty. Nothing else comes close...at least in the 1P sense.

StoofooEsq · Post by **StoofooEsq** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 10:17 pm

There's a lot of things I like about Shmups.

For one, it's the concept of the Shmup itself. The positions that the players are being put in. Becoming these exceptions, these individuals with enough valiance to rise up and fight hilariously unrealistic odds being thrown at you almost every second. With these powers at your command, it's very possible to destroy them all.

The challenge is what keeps me coming back. Even though you'll likely be given help in some form, it'll still be a difficult ride. The odds are already against you, a set amount of lives is given for the task, and you'll always lose something when you die. But if you focus, stay vigilant, make use of everything given to you, take every opportunity you spot, you might just make it to the end/next loop. Hell, maybe you'll do it in one credit or even become one of the elite few to do it in a single life.

Scoring thrown into the mix makes it that much more interesting. Killing sets of enemies in a row, using this laser at this time, bombing at just the right moment. It's a complex area that can bring out a desire that isn't always related surviving. Many Shmups have something different to offer in scoring, and I always like a different approach.

Finally, it's how unique each Shump can be and the innovations presented. What if you could absorb bullets? Or throw them back at enemies? Or take control of entire fleets of enemies and mini-bosses? With every game, I know I'll be able to play something different if I just go to a new title.

Master O · Post by **Master O** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 10:18 pm

jonny5 wrote:
... and this fairly ignorant question actually got me thinking....what is it about these games that i find so addictive?

It's the the challenge of shmups, at least for me, though with cute-em-ups, add the wtf factor in there, as well.

innerpattern · Post by **innerpattern** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 10:48 pm

Flying really fast and blowing up tons of shit with huge freakin guns!

A good shmup, like a good piece of music.. absorbs every ounce of your brain matter.

I agree with everyone's points. There are soo many qualities to appreciate.

nimitz · Post by **nimitz** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 10:52 pm

Many things: The fact you can play only a bit at a time (few minutes, one credit) and never feel obligated to play, The twitch aspect, the challenge, the speed and intensity of the gameplay, the pixel art, the way arcade games were designed and maybe a bit of nostalgia.

But the main reason is the overall Simplicity.

Taylor · Post by **Taylor** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 11:12 pm

I took some titles around to a friends “games night” before, which they foolishly themed around shmups not knowing my fetish. At first they surveyed them from a distance like they weren’t sure what they were going to do but warmed to the idea after a little time and alcohol. They seemed to like DOJ of all the ones I brought around, presumably because it was less twee. Everyone loves lasers and explosions.

Another guy put in his PC-Engine filled with tonnes of older shmups on and they seemed to be received much better, presumably because they don’t look impossible to the casual observer – light-heartedly dubbing my efforts as “retina burn.” I’m pretty sure the reservations were from intimidation, the genres apparent difficulty. And the difference is I'm attracted to the challenge... attracted to challenge in the sense of a punch-drunk guy who keeps getting back up to be hit in the face while everyone tells him to stay down, maybe, but attracted nevertheless.

elvis · Post by **elvis** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:31 am

They're hard and they're fast.

Too many games these days are long and slow. Snore.

I like my shmups like my love makin'. (Difficult and over too quickly???)

Jockel · Post by **Jockel** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:35 am

elvis wrote:I like my shmups like my love makin'. (Difficult and over too quickly???)

No, fast movements with a tiny "hitbox"

NMcCoy · Post by **NMcCoy** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:08 am

Jockel wrote:
elvis wrote:I like my shmups like my love makin'. (Difficult and over too quickly???)
No, fast movements with a tiny "hitbox"

In public places, and paid for.

320x240 · Post by **320x240** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:10 am

Because they are short, simple, rigid, repetitive and formulaic.

moozooh · Post by **moozooh** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:22 am

1. Clever patterns that are fun to solve.
2. Clever scoring systems.
3. Elaborate atmosphere (all presentation factors included).

In my experience, #2 and #3 are not often seen together.

Ruldra · Post by **Ruldra** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:57 pm

Difficulty.

I've reached a point where I want games that challenge me, that really test my skills. I was getting turned off by all the story-fests, RPGs and fighting games out there, as none of them provided what I was looking for.

Then, one day, I saw Mushi's TLB video and immediately thought "Wow, I MUST play this! This is just what I need!"

One thing led to another, and I discovered this board, and shmups in general. I've been hooked ever since.

KNTain · Post by **KNTain** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:42 pm

I've reached a point where I want games that challenge me, that really test my skills. I was getting turned off by [...] fighting games

I'm confused.

Post by **spadgy** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:43 pm

Taylor wrote: presumably because they don’t look impossible to the casual observer

I'm sure I've said this before, but if you can get as far as getting those people who deem shmups as impossible just at a glance, they are often pleasantly surprise by how well (relatively) they can do. I've finally got a mate who isn't a gamer at all into Strikers, just because he likes war comics, and boy is he getting good fast!

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 3:31 pm

Someone asked a similar question to this some time back, and my response was, in a nutshell, that shmups are one of the few genres left that are content to just be video games...not "art," not "experiences," not "somethhing that changes the way you look at the world," just a plain ol' game, designed to be played. No, the fact that you can't turn around, never run out of ammo, and are able to collect medals bigger than your ship by running into them doesn't make any sense at all. Yes, a real plane requires more than two buttons to control. No, there's usually nothing deeper than "blow everything up" at work in the background. But guess what? I LIKE that. I don't ask what kind of mushroom makes Mario double in size, or where the Puyos go after popping - I enjoy the game for what it is. Shmups welcome that sort of attitude (if not require it outright), and that's why I play 'em.

Ruldra · Post by **Ruldra** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 4:28 pm

KNTain wrote:
I've reached a point where I want games that challenge me, that really test my skills. I was getting turned off by [...] fighting games
I'm confused.

I don't have people to fight with, so I'm stuck playing against the CPU.

Michaelm · Post by **Michaelm** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 4:44 pm

Getting my ass kicked without feeling hurt I guess.

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