Tetris The Grandmaster on DS

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Frederik
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Tetris The Grandmaster on DS

Post by Frederik »

:shock:
Easily the most professional looking DS homebrew game I´ve seen so far.

DSFanboy post:
http://www.dsfanboy.com/2008/05/21/japa ... your-mind/

Developer site:
http://meraman.dip.jp/index.php?NDS_TGM

Older version downloads:
http://qty.se/~apanson/NDS_TGM/?C=M;O=D

It´s a (seemingly, as I never played the original) faithful conversion of TGM to the DS. This guy is programming this port since March 08, and it´s already very complete looking. It also has a very nice Gradius font :wink: He isn´t putting the newer versions up for download, though, but the older versions are still around. You´ll need a flash cart, obviously. I also wonder how long it´ll take Arika before they try to take this one down... It even has all the original music and sounds in it, as well as the classic "Leddy...GOH!" :) :?

I have a kind-of affinity for Tetris, but this variant always watered my mouth, though I now realize I suck at it - it´s miles apart from the easy-as-hell infinite spin-fest that is Tetris DS.
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FIL
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Post by FIL »

Makes me wish I had an R4
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Frederik
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Post by Frederik »

Yeah, it´s awesome!

I just tried the newer one of these versions (the newest that I found on a different site didn´t load the graphics somehow), it even has a replay save and online leaderboards. If I were at charge at Arika, I´d hire the guy to make this a commercial port.

On the other hand, Arika forced videos of Tetris clones like Heboris to be taken down from YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDJQP1xg5EY
So I don´t believe they won´t do anything about it...
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Ceph
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Post by Ceph »

Interesting discovery. I copy/pasted your post into the 2D Gaming Forum.
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PC Engine Fan X!
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Post by PC Engine Fan X! »

FrederikJurk wrote:Yeah, it´s awesome!

I just tried the newer one of these versions (the newest that I found on a different site didn´t load the graphics somehow), it even has a replay save and online leaderboards. If I were at charge at Arika, I´d hire the guy to make this a commercial port.

On the other hand, Arika forced videos of Tetris clones like Heboris to be taken down from YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDJQP1xg5EY
So I don´t believe they won´t do anything about it...
You never know, such quality homebrews are what the devs are looking for to add to their arsenal/stable of official software to sell to the public, assuming such a deal could be worked out in advance as far as royalties, licensing, etc.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~
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Triple Lei
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Post by Triple Lei »

I dug out the ol' DS Lite for the first time in months to try this. It works great with my M3 Lite! 8)

My homebrew-enabled PSP is getting jealous, though. The best Tetris on that is still through a GBA emulator playing the GBA homebrew "Lockjaw".

PSPに移植しろ!
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Frederik
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Post by Frederik »

Hey TripleLei, I remember your Tetris DX videos on YouTube, great stuff :)

I´m liking this game even more than I thought I would. Master Mode is pretty tame at the beginning, Death and Shirase is brutal, but I´m getting the hang of 20G, and I´m surprised how quick I´m learning the finer mechanics of this style of Tetris.

The only downside is that I´m going to be very tired tomorrow. I can almost feel it sinking into the subconscious :o This is the DDP:DOJ of puzzle games, very hardcore, very sweet!
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szycag
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Post by szycag »

Thanks a billion for sharing this. It's kicking my ass personally, but I'm really glad to have it...
That is Galactic Dancing
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StoofooEsq
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Post by StoofooEsq »

Good lookin', FJ. I still don't have a DS, but I'm keeping this close by until I get one and the means to play it (soon, hopefully). That, and rather not miss out on it before Arika fires their cease-and-desist railguns.

Tetris players may find this wiki useful. A lot of information here.
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Frederik
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Post by Frederik »

Thanks, I remember Tetrisconcept. I´ve found a nice essay on the TGM series there: http://bsixcentdouze.free.fr/tc/tgm-en/tgm.html

Although I think I´d rather not dig too deeply into this, as I think I´d rather figure things out myself, aside from the basic game mechanics :wink: I wasn´t aware that Mihara himself made these games. Gives me even more hope for Ketsui DS to be great :)

I really love this a lot. It´s fascinating how he took an already great game and polished it into a pure arcade diamond. Having to think and act really quick is something that is completely missing in the single player modes of Tetris DS; TGM feels a lot slicker and more serious.
PC Engine Fan X! wrote: You never know, such quality homebrews are what the devs are looking for to add to their arsenal/stable of official software to sell to the public, assuming such a deal could be worked out in advance as far as royalties, licensing, etc.
PC Engine Fan X! ^_~
I mean, what could the reason for this coder to not release the newer versions? Maybe he is indeed offering this port to Arika. I never played the original games, but this already is pretty near perfect. And this is a game I really want to spend money on somehow, as I can´t remember having such a blast on a game aside from a few shmups. And given that Arika is a pretty small publisher anyways, the idea of selling this port to them doesn´t sound this far off. I mean, it´s a sin this game hasn´t been release on a handheld platform yet.
Vincent Draconis wrote:Good lookin', FJ. I still don't have a DS, but I'm keeping this close by until I get one and the means to play it (soon, hopefully). That, and rather not miss out on it before Arika fires their cease-and-desist railguns.
Yeah, if I were one of those people without a DS or a flashcart, I´d say download these versions while they are still there. Arika killing this would be the worst-case scenario. But again, this is not a fan-game but looking and feeling like a proper port, and I don´t think MeRAMAN (the guy who made this) copied TGM3 so closely without being up to something. Otherwise he´d just have made another Tetris clone.
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Domino
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Post by Domino »

Don't want to derail the thread but where do you purchase a flash drive to run homebrew software on your DS (emulators, MP3s, etc.)? If this helps, I have the older DS model.
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Post by Jockel »

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Frederik
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Post by Frederik »

I have an EZ Flash V, which is great, aside from not coming with a Micro SD card reader, but the Micro SD I bought came with an adaptor that makes it fit into normal SD slots, so I connected it to my Mac with my mp3-player :wink:

These modern flash carts are very easy to use, too. This site has tons of info on the subject:
http://www.gbatemp.net/

It also seems that the homebrew scene is gaining momentum, as there are quite a few interesting applets out there, including several experimental music programs (including the mod tracker Nitrotracker that you can use samples recorded over the DSes microphone with, very nifty), and a very cool drawing software called "Colors!". It´s a shame these flash carts are mostly associated with piracy - some of these programs use the DSes capabilities in much more interesting ways than a lot of commercial software.
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Jockel
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Post by Jockel »

I tried this TGM Port, and it's insanely difficult imo.
Tetris DS on Level 20 is just soooo easy compared to this game ^^"
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Frederik
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Post by Frederik »

Jockel wrote:I tried this TGM Port, and it's insanely difficult imo.
Tetris DS on Level 20 is just soooo easy compared to this game ^^"
The main difference being is that you can´t keep playing forever as long as you keep jabbing the rotation buttons like crazy like in Tetris DS. TDS has some nice things like the very sweet Push mode and the online mode; the classic Endless mode, however, is hilariously broken. This guy sums it up very nicely. However, this is not Nintendos fault at all - it´s the official guidelines of The the Tetris company, which forces all games under the Tetris name to feature this infinite spin gimmick (amongst others, including Hold piece and brick colors - yeah, they are anal pricks).

I am having a lot of fun with the 4 width mode (in the 2008-06-07 version). I hardly last a minute playing this in Shirase difficulty, but it´s a nice change to be challenged this much :D These modes are obviously targeted towards a hardcore minority, but it has the same punch to it as danmaku shmups. Thanks for making Tetris badass, Arika 8)
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Post by D »

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Frederik
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Post by Frederik »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NO%24GBA

Never tried any of those, though. Might be pretty rubbish, but might do the job in this particular case.

Btw, the version you linked gives me a black screen with only my username appearing - the first one I tried which I guess was one of the latest didn´t have anything on screen at all :? I really don´t know why, as the hardware is obviously always the same... 2008-06-07 is the last one that runs on my cart :?
Last edited by Frederik on Sun Jul 06, 2008 1:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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StoofooEsq
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Some thoughts on TGM

Post by StoofooEsq »

This thread got me thinking. As it stands, the TGM series consists of a typically casual Tetris game that was reintroduced as a serious-fucking-business test of Tetris skill with a very steep learning curve requiring a different style of play at higher-levels. Sharing a sort of bond with the Shmup genre, it would drive plenty of people away for that reason alone but would still manage to gain a substantial following continually playing to raise their skill level and competing with others' scores.

That's why I want to see at least one TGM game released outside of Japan (I think complications with The Tetris Company are what's preventing this). Not as a retail title, but as a downloadable title for PSN or XBLA. Give it some online scoreboards, DLC, replay saving and uploading. Let's see how some more people in the rest of the world perform in this expert, different form of Tetris and not the same old stacker that keeps getting slapped on cell phones. Look up any TGM game on YouTube and you'll see players from different nations have already become skilled.

It could work. :o
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Frederik
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Post by Frederik »

Exactly. Most people remember Tetris as that "old falling bricks game" that nobody really bothers with anymore, while the die-hard fans celebrate a much more refined version. In a way this makes them similar to shmups: People kinda know that genre, but don´t know that it kept evolving in the shadows. Both genres are now of the "IMPOSSIBLE JAPANESE GAME!"-variety. What separates them is that Tetris can be both a very casual type of game (though not quite as dumb as Bejeweled! for instance) AND very hardcore, while looking almost the same at the first glance. Name another game that is that versatile!

There is actually a japanese TGM that follow the stricter Tetris Company guidelines, TGM Ace for XBox360 from 2005 (as Wikipedia tells me), so it´s sadly not like these guidelines don´t apply for Japan and/or Arika. What the Tetris Company wants is that every Tetris game basically plays the same, which leaves no room for extreme games like TGM. But I guess you could always make a Tetris game and just don´t call it Tetris, so that you don´t need the license...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDJQP1xg5EY
As this video claims, you can´t actually patent a game idea.
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Post by Mortificator »

FrederikJurk wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NO%24GBA

Never tried any of those, though. Might be pretty rubbish, but might do the job in this particular case.

Btw, the version you linked gives me a black screen with only my username appearing - the first one I tried which I guess was one of the latest didn´t have anything on screen at all :? I really don´t know why, as the hardware is obviously always the same... 2008-06-07 is the last one that runs on my cart :?
The version he linked to works in that emulator. And man, did it wup my ass.

I haven't decided yet if it's ultra-hard in a good way (Ghosts 'n Goblins!) or a bad way (Tower of Druaga...).
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Frederik
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Post by Frederik »

Can´t really compare it to G´n`G because I hate that series with a passion :wink: (Aside from, you know, these game belonging to completely different genres). I´d compare it to the hardest Cave shmups - as a beginner you won´t last more than a few moments, but it´s a blast to play and you´ll learn very fast.

The TGM system is completely fair - the blocks have a short timeframe of "sliding" time before they lock down that resets each time they drop down, and you can even rotate the pieces in a direction BEFORE they appear - if you press a rotation button right after the last piece locked in place you´ll hear a high-pitched mechnical sound that indicates initial rotation. This can be very important since you´ll only be able to slide pieces downwards, and rotating them before they appear can avoid getting them stuck.

Of course, you´ll have to know exactly what you´re doing - where the pieces drop, how they react to the pieces around them etc. You´ll also soon discover that it´s best to arrange the pieces in a pyramid shape, so that pieces can slide from the middle to the sides. In the case of the long brick these problems are the most obvious.

Again, here is a good summary of the game basics: (In the middle part with the moving gifs)
http://bsixcentdouze.free.fr/tc/tgm-en/tgm.html

I suck at TGM too, meaning I can barely survive for more than a minute in Death Mode, a little above that in 20G and about half of that in Shirase (All in the "narrow playfield" 4 width mode I really love right now). So right now I´m aiming for simply beating my previous miniscule records, but I feel that I´m getting used to this system very quickly. (I don´t even bother looking up records or anything, I don´t do that with shmups either; beating my own scores is just a lot more encouraging.)

On my best runs I got into a kind of zone where I simultaneously watched the playing field and the Next piece window (so that my view blurred). You will really have to keep an eye on the coming pieces at all time, seing what comes next is crucial in this game. The bright colors help to identify the pieces faster after a while. You´ll also notice the sounds that announce the next piece - each one has its own distinctive melody (though I didn´t bother with learning these yet).

I always thought that Tetris had a structure that can be learned very fast and instinctively. I played Tetris Attack/Puzzle League as well as Lumines, but somehow Tetris still has the least concious thinking involved, it just really clicks with the brain somehow. Now this game combines the Zen zoning out with the hectic split-second reaction times that can be found in shmups and fighting games, to a point where it doesn´t feel like the "old" Tetris at all anymore. At first it´s not apparent how much these streamlined elements change the experience, but I can only recommend to anybody to try it for a while until you discard it.
Last edited by Frederik on Sun Jul 06, 2008 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Ex_Mosquito »

I have been playing this for a while. It's really a missed opportunity not to release this properly on the Ds, its clearly the best incarnation of tetris, imo anyway.

If anyone is wondering what it looks like I did a small vid using the new Replay feature on the newest release.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mark9/Ex_M ... ndstgm.wmv
My Arcade 1-Credit Replays
http://www.youtube.com/user/exmosquito
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Frederik
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Post by Frederik »

Ex_Mosquito wrote:I have been playing this for a while. It's really a missed opportunity not to release this properly on the Ds, its clearly the best incarnation of tetris, imo anyway.

If anyone is wondering what it looks like I did a small vid using the new Replay feature on the newest release.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mark9/Ex_M ... ndstgm.wmv
Wow. That´s exactly how it´s been played right :D Here you can see how he is not stacking entirely flat but higher in the middle and falling off to the sides to take advantage of the brick sliding.I´m not nearly there yet, as I am a newcomer to this, but I´m enjoying the learning curve so far :wink:

I wish I knew what it is that´s hindering the new version from running on my cart, I wish I had these switching backgrounds too. Maybe I´ll have to get a new kernel or whatever...
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Post by zaphod »

I believe the TGM series is every bit as accessible as classic tetris.

It's hard at high levels, but always remains fair, unlike older games, which became inhumanly difficult at high speeds, without lock delay.

The game removes limitations from the game engine that get in the way of playing at high speeds, but keeps the core game as simple as ever. The wallkick, rotation, and locking rules are incredibly simple.

While it gets difficult at the higher levels, it never stops being "just Tetris".

I think the game would do well outside of japan. But Mr. Roger's vision is against everything TGM stands for. He'd rather hand out crutches to te beginner, instead of forcing them to learn to play.
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Post by zaphod »

PS: he's hiding it because he's afraid of Arika. He's blatantly ripping off their sounds and graphics.

I'd be glad if ti DID becoem official, though. then I'd just import it and play.
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Post by gameoverDude »

I think Arika does need to release some port of TGM3. I hope they can strike a compromise with TTC over this- maybe include a guidelines compliant (*cough* weaksauce *cough*) mode, as well as a real TGM 3 mode based on the arcade. Don't trash a perfectly good opportunity.

Just using the code that this guy has made, and maybe tweaking it a bit would be enough. The backgrounds in the arcade version rotate, scroll, and/or scale - though you're not really paying that much attention to them, that's a nice touch I wouldn't mind seeing.

Not having a retail port of any of the REAL Tetris TGM games to date is a fucking crime. This particular version is definitely worth $50.
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Post by StoofooEsq »

TGM3 is only running on Taito's Type X hardware, so a PS2 port could've easily been done. As for the Nintendo DS, maybe the animated backgrounds would have to be toned down somewhat, but a port to it would still be feasible.

NDS_TGM already has some considerable features like Internet Ranking, so Arika could just use that as a basis for their own port.

My latest effort in TAP. I still play far too slow. :(
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Frederik
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Post by Frederik »

Vincent Draconis wrote: NDS_TGM already has some considerable features like Internet Ranking, so Arika could just use that as a basis for their own port.
Let´s hope they have got the brains to do just that. On the other hand, who knows if Arika acknowledges MeRAMANs work of if they are too proud and uptight for that and just take measures against it.

I just now realized this guy doesn´t post the new versions on his site because he´s trying to avoid these legal steps and instead lets the data pop up undercover. I mean, he could have made a TGM-like fangame, but taking all graphics and sound straight from the original seems to me like he´s trying to show Arika "Here, this is what we want". Either that, or he´s just being ballsy :roll:

So it´s pretty much up to Arika to either see this as a loveletter to these games or as shameless theft. I don´t know how japanese companies are in this regard (or any western videogame developer), so I have no idea.

And then there is still the Tetris Guideline with their braindead rotation system and all that. I read that the older TGM games still had the option to choose between SRS or TGM systems, but that these guidelines got stricter with time and may not even allow such a choice at all.

Besides, everybody and their mom has a DS in Japan, and it´s not like Tetris games have tons of graphics and code that´s expensive to port anyways. And the online leaderboards are a big factor in that, too. (Not that I actually would want to compare my crummy first steps with worldwide pro players, but yeah)
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Post by lgb »

FrederikJurk wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDJQP1xg5EY
As this video claims, you can´t actually patent a game idea.
Supply me with a download link for KGM, if possible.
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Frederik
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Post by Frederik »

http://www.tetrisconcept.com/wiki/index ... t_of_games
Here is a list that includes fangames, but KGM isn´t on it, which is weird, since tepples (who made the YT vid) is a member on the TC boards. I can´t find anything on Google, either. Looks a bit similar to Lockjaw, though, which could be the next best thing.
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