Is Progear considered easy?

[KindGrind]

Played it quite a lot recently, love it. I can't help but feel it's a lot easier than most Cave games (well, all the others I've played, to be exact). Is it generally considered easy? How does it compare to Deathsmiles in terms of difficulty? Input much appreciated!

[moozooh]

Have you seen the second loop? I don't think it's any easier than your average Cave game.

[KindGrind]

I haven't managed to see it, to be honest, but I see it coming pretty soon, which I couldn't say for all other Cave games except for DDP.

[GaijinPunch]

Have you seen stages 4 and 5 of the first loop? No, it's not considered easy. It has an every feature but that doesn't mean shit if you can't score. If you strategically use bombs you can probably do a 1-loop clear with some effort, but it's far from easy.

Death Smiles is one of those weird games. On the weakest rank and no Canyon, it is bar none the easiest Cave game. All Rank 3 with the Canyon, and the last two stages are painful... harder than most for me.

[ForceDevice]

I think Progear is harder than all the other Cave games that run on MAME.

I'd rather play all of the backwards scrolling parts in Guwange than any part of stage 4 in Progear. Whoever came up with the idea of adding a vertical scrolling stage on a hori manic seriously needs an axe TO THE HEAD.

[Fenrir]

Have you seen stages 4 and 5 of the first loop?

Hell yeah. Absolutely pain in the ass.
No, it's not easy at all. I find it moderately hard, expecially in comparison with other Cave games.
The first 3 levels are somewhat easier than the first three levels of a lot of Cave games, but then...

[KindGrind]

I think lvl 4 and 5 are indeed difficult (scrolling in lvl 4 felt weird), but didn't feel as tough as I thought it'd be. Mind you, I'm not really playing for score yet, barely survival, but I can do a real decent job at it. Panic bombing at its finest

Maybe my impressions have to do with what I played recently, namely, lots of DOJ, where I can see the game saying "fuck you!" and laughing in my face all the time. I came into Progear expect something like it I guess, but I found it real pleasant and easier than other stuff I've been into lately.

Thanks for the input on Deathsmiles. Damn does the game look fine...

[FIL]

I remember a PRO REVIEW stating how dumb the vertical scrolling in Progear was, and the pastel which makes your eyes hurt like toothache.

[professor ganson]

The first three stages of Progear are just my pace. Level 4 was disorienting, and I haven't yet bothered to get the hang of it.

Perhaps Progear is similar in difficulty to DonPachi, at least with respect to the final stages? From what I hear the last part of DP is rough. Haven't gotten to the final stage yet myself.

[moozooh]

DonPachi has a really wacky difficulty curve. In my experience (I only played a couple hours, so I didn't manage to pass stage 4, the rest was mostly learned through credit-feeding), it went something like this:

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st1:    |
st2-3:  ||
st4:    |||||
st5:    ||||||
st6:    ||||
st7-8:  |||||||
st9-10: |||||||||
TLB:    ||||||

[spadgy]

Not for me - I've been trying for that 1CC down the arcade for months now - sometimes only one visit a week or even fortnight - sometimes twice a week, which I know isn't regular enough, but I tried it on Mame and hated the small screen.

Thing is, I've only ever played for score. I started that way and now there's no question of just going for survival, as I'm really trying to climb the high score table, and playing for survival feels a little empty.

While it's not as fast and intense as other Cave games, it patterns seems far less, well, patterned, which plays hell with my weak mind!

[moozooh]

I tried it on Mame and hated the small screen.

You can run it in fullscreen, y'know. ;)

[jonny5]

I tried it on Mame and hated the small screen.

You can run it in fullscreen, y'know.

i think he is referring to the difference between an arcade monitor(25in-29in) and perhaps a 15in computer monitor

[jpj]

Thing is, I've only ever played for score. I started that way and now there's no question of just going for survival, as I'm really trying to climb the high score table, and playing for survival feels a little empty.

i think what separates progear from other similar cave games is that because scoring well means bullet-clearing, the game gets easier as you learn to score better.

personally, i think it's about right as a cave game: first two levels are pretty easy, third stage doable with practice, and then the sudden difficulty spike for stages four and five

i really wanna buy this again, actually

[kengou]

Progear is a hard game. Stage 4 and 5 are ridiculous. I think you're seeing it as easier because you've been playing DOJ. Everything seems easy compared to DOJ.

[NTSC-J]

I think lvl 4 and 5 are indeed difficult (scrolling in lvl 4 felt weird), but didn't feel as tough as I thought it'd be. Mind you, I'm not really playing for score yet, barely survival, but I can do a real decent job at it. Panic bombing at its finest

Keep in mind that to see the loop you'll have to not bomb more than two times. IMO, Progear's loop is comparable with DOJ or Ketsui due to the forced restarts when you die. Not an easy game.

[moonblood]

Isn't there a difference in difficulty between the Us & Jp version too?

[KindGrind]

I think lvl 4 and 5 are indeed difficult (scrolling in lvl 4 felt weird), but didn't feel as tough as I thought it'd be. Mind you, I'm not really playing for score yet, barely survival, but I can do a real decent job at it. Panic bombing at its finest

Keep in mind that to see the loop you'll have to not bomb more than two times. IMO, Progear's loop is comparable with DOJ or Ketsui due to the forced restarts when you die. Not an easy game.

See, this is something I didn't know. Getting to loop 2 now seems a lot tougher...

[ForceDevice]

Isn't there a difference in difficulty between the Us & Jp version too?

Everyone says so, but I've played at least 50 credits on the japanese version (which I only got a few months ago) and haven't seen any significant increase in difficulty.

Maybe I'm doing it wrong?

[spadgy]

Firstly, I do mean the difference between a cab with a 29" Screen and a laptop with a puny monitor.

Second, apparently the slight increase in difficulty in the Japanese version is about the resilience of enemies in terms of the amount of pain they can take before they die.

Something about the actual difficulty levels being slightly out of synch?

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Firstly, I do mean the difference between a cab with a 29" Screen and a laptop with a puny monitor.

Second, apparently the slight increase in difficulty in the Japanese version is about the resilience of enemies in terms of the amount of pain they can take before they die.

Something about the actual difficulty levels being slightly out of synch?

Yes, for the full arcade experience, it's recommended to play the CPS2 version of Progear No Arashi on a Japanese cabinet. A 29" RGB monitor is perfect for overall presentation of the graphics. Can't get any better than with that particular setup to play Progear as it was meant to be played. ^_~

IIRC, Gaijin Punch knows of a Japanese gal who mastered the CPS2 ver. of Progear over the course of two years and is able to finish it to the very end on the 2nd loop. Practice makes perfect in this day of age, especially with Cave arcade shmups titles.

Plus there's the cool novelty factor of being able to play Progear on the go with a custom firmware endowed PSP (or 1.50 fw PSP for that matter) using NJ's CPS2PSP emulator = priceless. ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Mortificator]

Second, apparently the slight increase in difficulty in the Japanese version is about the resilience of enemies in terms of the amount of pain they can take before they die.

Something about the actual difficulty levels being slightly out of synch?

Yeah, the difficulty levels in the US version are harder than their Japanese equivalents, but the US defaults to a lower level.

The difficulty in the Japanese version just feels, I don't know, more natural. I played a lot of the US version first, and after trying the Japanese I never went back. It's probably just subjective, though.

i think what separates progear from other similar cave games is that because scoring well means bullet-clearing, the game gets easier as you learn to score better.

I'm wondering if Esprade is easier if you score better. The rank's higher when you max out on gold tokens, but you get more time to fill up your meter, so you can bomb pretty often.

[GaijinPunch]

Progear

Scoring does make it easier, but for stages like 4, it can be a bitch. To score high and jewel properly you have to fill up the screen. If you blow it, you're dead.

As for the difficulty, more bullets does not mean harder. In fact, it can mean easier as you can jewel them easier. This is a game you really do need the rank to raise up. It does mean the bosses will be harder since you can only jewel them a couple of times, but throughout the stage, if patterns aren't thick enough, you can't jewel right.

I'm wondering if Esprade is easier if you score better.

Not really. Bullet Canceling is more of a side effect, although they said they toyed with a system like Progear's jeweling while the game was in development.

[Taylor]

Playing for score makes all the difference, you really have to put yourself at risk. The best example is the quasi-midboss plane on stage 2 – shooting it down and milking it are miles apart.

I found Stage 4 weird at first, but it’s a nice change once you get your head around it and the two tank-fest sections are a lot of fun to clear out. The only bit I dislike is the green planes at the start of stage 5; I never get through them unscathed without feeling like it was fluke, my strategy after the 3rd one swoops in is to scream and jerk in random directions.

Not for me - I've been trying for that 1CC down the arcade for months now - sometimes only one visit a week or even fortnight - sometimes twice a week, which I know isn't regular enough, but I tried it on Mame and hated the small screen.

I really need to get down to Casino Arcade more often to play it properly, but despite being my closest arcade it’s still an hour train ride away...

[Nakano]

And I thought I was the only one who thought this game was hard! I remember a similar thread saying this was one of the easier cave games....

For the Cave shooters I've played up to & including Ibara/esp2 (except BL versions & Ketsui & Donpachi), I would say Mushihimesama is the easiest on original to 1cc it. I never done it myself, but on a good run, I can get to the final stage dying once & once without dying, but I kept trying to not use any bombs there, to work out how to best tackle the stage. Then I needed the money and sold it before I could do it. Hopefully I can get it back 1 day and finally 1cc it.

[Shion]

I found the first loop to be fairy easy to 1cc. The scoring system allows for a lot of bullet canceling, so you don't even have to dodge a lot on the stages if you know how it works. The Japanese version of the game seems a lot harder than the US release though.

[innerpattern]

For the Cave shooters I've played up to & including Ibara/esp2 (except BL versions & Ketsui & Donpachi), I would say Mushihimesama is the easiest on original to 1cc it. .

I haven't played every Cave game but so far I agree with this. I made it to stage 4 the first credit I played.

For me Progear is the HARDEST Cave game, mostly due to the fact that it's not a vert shooter. I remember in some vid Cave criticizing their own game saying that yoko just doesn't work as well for their shooters.

[moozooh]

I say this passes with experience. The loop requirements are pretty cruel, but otherwise Progear isn't really hard when you adjust to it.

It also helps if you play it in normal (12:7) aspect ratio, so that the sprites (most importantly those of enemy bullets) aren't distorted. It also makes it look faster and more "epic" at the same time. :D

[PC Engine Fan X!]

For the Cave shooters I've played up to & including Ibara/esp2 (except BL versions & Ketsui & Donpachi), I would say Mushihimesama is the easiest on original to 1cc it. .

I haven't played every Cave game but so far I agree with this. I made it to stage 4 the first credit I played.

For me Progear is the HARDEST Cave game, mostly due to the fact that it's not a vert shooter. I remember in some vid Cave criticizing their own game saying that yoko just doesn't work as well for their shooters.

It's been said that Cave tried out a tate version of Progear but found out that it was not to their liking. And thus, the endless debate goes on as to create a new shmup title from the ground up either in tate or yoko...what will it be?

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[sikraiken]

I say this passes with experience. The loop requirements are pretty cruel, but otherwise Progear isn't really hard when you adjust to it.

Just don't die or bomb and you'll never even have to know about the loop requirements.