Dodonpachi Daifukkatsu [Cave 2008]

[Twiddle]

Another variant of this is in the first two Raiden Fighters games, where you typically suicide to get rank low enough to make the most out of grazing in the first two stages and end up using nearly all of your bombs to score high, leaving you with little wiggle room and no incoming extends to save you, which applies to at least the second game.

Also, no miss no bomb plays tend to be more conservative and less entertaining than stuntman games when looked closer into.

[moozooh]

That's agreeable, although I guess it depends on the game (or the player). Said DDP doesn't give you much room for playing it safe even if you're doing it conservatively; the risk is more or less the same either way as long as you're nm/nb'ing.

DOJ and DFK greatly increase rank if you hyper much, though.

[GaijinPunch]

You want the rank increased in DFK though. More bullets = more points.

[Enhasa]

And moozooh, i find it hillarious that you are complaining about the TLB battle being bad to watch (not play). Just a funny thing if you think about it for a second.

It might be funny but I already saw some of those old m2k2 threads so I know what to expect.

BTW here is a thread that I'm sure you'll enjoy.

[moozooh]

And how is any of that relevant?

[stanski]

only relevant because you are judging game design based on how good it is to watch.

About your comments on the bomb/hyper fest of the hibachi battle, watch pretty much any other DDP hibachi battle and they usually suck compared to the rest of the replay (I enjoyed watching no miss/no bomb action thru then ending stages of donpachi, dodonpachi, and doj replays that I have seen). Death label doesn't really count imo because it obviously takes a lot less skill to play boss battles independently.

Has anyone actually purchased this game yet, or is everyone waiting for the inevitable price drop?

[moozooh]

There's the misunderstanding: how good it is to watch is actually a consequence, while the reason is how the battle is designed to go for a player able to reach it. And judging by how it looks (unfortunately neither I, nor you, nor anyone else who doesn't have access to the game can judge otherwise), it is designed to completely overwhelm the player. Of course the battles are going to suck that way, with the players purposefully wanting to use whatever tricks and catches it takes for an all-clear. I don't think anyone sane enough would be able to fight this TLB aiming entirely for score unless they specifically want to contest for a WR (and that would consitute not more than 3-4 players in the world).

[sven666]

seriously.. did you watch any of the last 10 cave TLBs? they were all designed to completely overwhelm the player.

take a game as far back as espgaluda for instance.. the game steps the difficulty up 10 notches on the last form of the last boss already there, and after that cave have always had pressure on them to take it up a notch, for deathsmiles they lowered the difficulty a bit and what happened there? people were 1CCing all over the place and making claims they would never play it again and cave had lost their mojo (altho now that the scoresystem has been figured out no-one says that anymore since that game too turned ridiculous), id say they hit the spot pretty well with DDP5, a game that looks easy to start and 20mins later ends in an absoluteley ridiculous assault.. JUST what their fans want and like imo.

being able to freehand-dodge a TLB (or really any latter boss) for the first time without figuring out its tactics is a deader than checkpoints and powerdowns...

[moozooh]

seriously.. did you watch any of the last 10 cave TLBs? they were all designed to completely overwhelm the player.

I would disagree. Galuda's, DOJ's, Ketsui's and Futari BL's TLBs can realistically be no-missed by a world-class player after enough practice (and there are multiple videos suggesting/confirming that); only their very last patterns require exceptional dodging and coordination skills (usually substituted with panic bombing, though) in addition to figuring out effort-effective paths/strategies. DOJ's was almost no-missed, too.

id say they hit the spot pretty well with DDP5, a game that looks easy to start and 20mins later ends in an absoluteley ridiculous assault.. JUST what their fans want and like imo.

Well, if you consider yourself a Cave fan (I don't know if you do), can you say it definitely is what you want and like?

being able to freehand-dodge a TLB (or really any latter boss) for the first time without figuring out its tactics is a deader than checkpoints and powerdowns...

I think you're exaggerating my point; I never wanted the TLBs to be that easy, but I would like them to be at least fair to the players (i.e., not make them resort to cheap stuff). In my opinion, DDP's, Ketsui's, and Futari BL's TLBs are the best Cave has created so far.

[sven666]

I think you're exaggerating my point; I never wanted the TLBs to be that easy, but I would like them to be at least fair to the players (i.e., not make them resort to cheap stuff). In my opinion, DDP's, Ketsui's, and Futari BL's TLBs are the best Cave has created so far.

yeah but how can you say that at this early stage tho? from the very first youtube video of the TLB youre already cutting the whole game by the ankles??

if in 6 months time japanese pro-players still havent managed to no-miss it then you might have a valid point.

[moozooh]

yeah but how can you say that at this early stage tho? from the very first youtube video of the TLB youre already cutting the whole game by the ankles??

You're exaggerating again!

if in 6 months time japanese pro-players still havent managed to no-miss it then you might have a valid point.

So let's see it in 6 months. So far I'm reasonably sure that the power type no-miss won't happen, and bomber type no miss might happen only if using the safe spot exploit. I hope to look at this post in 6 months and see myself wrong, but I don't hold my breath.

[oxtsu]

autographed DFK boxed sets just offered from Try, only 3pcs (cave official)
http://www.try-inc.co.jp/
(click link at top of page, to the right of 6/6 for info+pics!)

[PC Engine Fan X!]

autographed DFK boxed sets just offered from Try, only 3pcs (cave official)
http://www.try-inc.co.jp/
(click link at top of page, to the right of 6/6 for info+pics!)

How much are is the asking price for one of those autographed DDP-DFK PCB boxed sets? I'm sure such a PCB set would fetch mucho yen/$$$ on YAJ in the years to come... ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[overkill55]

Looks like 273,000 yen, but I might be reading it wrong. Whoever owns all three will have supreme power over the universe

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Looks like 273,000 yen, but I might be reading it wrong. Whoever owns all three will have supreme power over the universe

I wonder if any fellow shmuppers here on Shmup.org would be willing to snag that exclusive PCB set? Ladies & gentlemen, it's time to open your wallets and charge it... ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[zro]

any machines spotted stateside?

[bay]

any machines spotted stateside?

machines? like flying mecha lolis bent on world domination?

[firestorm]

any one know ho to release the secret middel boss in each
stage

i only get the one in stage 3 neary every time.

stage 1 and 4 only saw one time.

[Ruldra]

I just noticed something while watching DFK vids: when you activate the hyper, a number appears on your ship, ranging from 1 to 5.

I'm not sure of this, but it seems it's related to the bullet canceling power. When the number is 1, you cancel bullets almost instantly, and when it's 5, you hardly cancel anything.

Now what makes each number appear is beyond me.

[elfhentaifan]

Now what makes each number appear is beyond me.

]
as in common knowledge, you can pick up to 5 hypers in doj.
So propably you have to accomplish cirtain events/collect certain items or whatever to unleash the full power of the hyper (=5)

[MrMonkeyMan]

Everytime you use a hyper the number goes up. It seems if you use 5 hypers on a stage the game gets pissed off at you and makes it really hard to cancel any bullets.

Dying seems to lower the counter.

It might carry over from stage to stage, I'll have to check. EDIT: I don't think it does.

Not really sure, but that's what it seems like.

[Zebra Airforce]

suicides for score a possibility?

[Ruldra]

On the video I saw, the player uses a hyper repeatedly during the stage and he almost always gets a 1. Occasionally he gets other numbers and a 5 appears rarely. I'm pretty sure it's not related to the number of hypers used in a stage.

[MrMonkeyMan]

It definitely goes up every time you use a hyper. Dying will knock it back down one. 5 is the max it can reach. After you hit 5 it doesn't even display a number anymore. I don't think bombing has any effect, but it might.

So, what video are you watching? I've tested this, and checked all the videos I have and this is how it always works. Perhaps the player keeps dying in the video you are watching?

[Ruldra]

I checked again, and yes you are right, the numbers appear in order. The player was dying repeatedly so the number never went up. My bad.

[Gwyrgyn Blood]

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm3639378

Full chain of stage 1-5. Starts the stage with ~8 billion, has counter stopped the game before he even gets to the boss, at 99 billion.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm3639378

Full chain of stage 1-5. Starts the stage with ~8 billion, has counter stopped the game before he even gets to the boss, at 99 billion.

What are the passwords so we can d/l this DDP-DFK video?

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Gwyrgyn Blood]

You just sign in with a nico account. I'm sure there's a guide on how to register around here somewhere. Maybe this will help: http://curryallergy.blogspot.com/2007/0 ... video.html


ALSO, it looks like the dialog options at the end of the video have different text than normal. Maybe there is an Ura loop?

[moozooh]

Use http://d.hatena.ne.jp/video/niconico/smXXXXXXX to watch without registering, http://d.hatena.ne.jp/video/niconico/sm3639378 in this case. (Thanks goes to an amazing Japanese fellow known as gocha.)

16724 hits, of which 16500 consituted a counter stop. I guess this is the trump card for the players to demand a 1.5. :P

But this is odd, really. Cave knew their scoring system well, how did they not account for full stage chains? It doesn't seem something out of ordinary, and it was even expected of players to chain all the way through to the boss… Well, being able to do it back in 1-5 means we'll probably see scores in order of trillions by the 2-ALL time if a new version comes out.

[sikraiken]

\O/ thanks cave