need Help with Gradius IV PCB- They Suicide?! (a little bit)

dpful · Post by **dpful** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:09 am

My Gradius IV PCB says some kind of checksum error and then it won't save my preferences (I don't think it ever saved high scores, but it did the game and system settings).

I've looked at the board pretty closely and can't see anything that looks like a battery. Does anyone know what could be wrong?

I need to turn off the attract sound. If I can't figure it out, I'll just have to put a switch on the speaker wires.

Post by **Ghegs** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 7:02 am

When I ordered some arcade flyers from SuperPang I also received a Gradius IV PCB manual...which is mostly in japanese, unfortunately. I could try scanning it if nobody has a better idea.

dpful · Post by **dpful** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 2:54 pm

Is there anything in there that obviously looks like a battery? If not, then don't bother- thanks very much though.

If it's not a battery, I don't think I'd know how to fix it. It worked until just a few days ago

Post by **system11** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:31 pm

Is there any kind of settings reset button on it?
What exactly does the message say?
Does the game play fine otherwise?

dpful · Post by **dpful** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:38 pm

Damn I can't remember the exact message- I'll check it later- it says something like "RTC CHECKSUM ERROR! REINITIALIZING RTC", and then the game starts like normal and works perfectly, but all the setings are default.

There is a test button, and all the setting are done in a menu. I don't think there's a settings reset button. All the setting can be saved and work great until the board is powered off.

Post by **system11** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:13 pm

I bet RTC = RealTime Clock.

You sure it doesn't have a battery somewhere?

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:36 pm

Gradius IV has a real time clock inside, so it must have a battery.

Other systems generate RTC checksums. It seems odd that the RTC has a clock, but that might be generated along with other settings so the board can be sure it's not going bad or pirated.

dpful · Post by **dpful** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:12 am

Shit, I'll look again for a battery. (Take apart case again). It's a double layer board all screwed together- definitely not on the top, rather that take it all apart, I just peered between them and didn't see anything.

If it must have a battery, I'll search again.
Thanks guys

dpful · Post by **dpful** » Thu May 22, 2008 4:18 am

Does anyone know more about this board? I took it apart again, there is no battery unless it's in some form I've never ever seen, like inside a chip or something. There are no unusual squares, nubs or cylinders to be found by me.

I'd sure like to fix it! The default setting is attract sound on, 3 lives, and no continues. How the hell am I supposed to get to the end of the bubble level and then credit feed on the boss till dawn??

Again, the new warning is "RTC SHECKSUM ERROR"
"...INITIALIZING RTC"
It worked perfectly until ..... one day that warning came up.

Maybe someone here has the manual?

*big edit*
I'm an idiot. I just barely "happened" to notice that there is a big huge fat microchip on the board that says "Timekeeper RAM" and "Lithium Battery" on it.

I'm assuming that's the chip that keeps getting re-initialized and the battery that's dead. Does anyone have any insight into how to fix that? If I looked up the part, could I replace it, or is there some info in the chip or something about the chip that would get lost. (There's a lot of legs on that chip- looks hard to replace without fucking it up).

Bottom line for all gradius IV owners---- your boards will suicide, just in the area of settings, and the default setting are pretty rough. I think I'll go ahead and mount a test switch as well as a speaker cuttoff switch in an accessible spot on the cab and just deal with it.

rtw · Post by **rtw** » Thu May 22, 2008 6:15 am

dpful wrote: *big edit*
I'm an idiot. I just barely "happened" to notice that there is a big huge fat microchip on the board that says "Timekeeper RAM" and "Lithium Battery" on it.

Sounds like the same type of circuit which was used inside SUN machines.
Could you please tell me the part number ? If it's a DALLAS or ST they
can be ordered from mouser.com

Got any pictures or scans of the motherboard ?

rtw

dpful · Post by **dpful** » Thu May 22, 2008 2:24 pm

(can't link image), here's a pic of the PCB:
http://www.gamestone.co.uk/gradius/game ... =04&page=1
That's the chip in the bottom left of the pic next to the white connector in the top pcb pic.
It says:
AHT1118X
and:
H990A9815
M48T58Y-70PC1
TIMEKEEPER RAM
LITHIUM BATTERY
MALAYSIA

it also says ST!

I don't know what timekeeper ram means, can I swap it out with no probs?

*edit*
I just looked it up a mouser and it looks just like the part. OK to proceed? I've never replaced a whole chip before, I'm assuming I'll need a good solder remover. What works best- wicks? special tool?

rtw · Post by **rtw** » Fri May 23, 2008 6:16 am

dpful wrote:(can't link image), here's a pic of the PCB:
http://www.gamestone.co.uk/gradius/game ... =04&page=1
That's the chip in the bottom left of the pic next to the white connector in the top pcb pic.
It says:
AHT1118X
and:
H990A9815
M48T58Y-70PC1
TIMEKEEPER RAM
LITHIUM BATTERY
MALAYSIA

it also says ST!

I don't know what timekeeper ram means, can I swap it out with no probs?

*edit*
I just looked it up a mouser and it looks just like the part. OK to proceed? I've never replaced a whole chip before, I'm assuming I'll need a good solder remover. What works best- wicks? special tool?

Just buy a new one. Don't worry about soldering, it is most likely socketed.
I have never seen a soldered TIMEKEEPER.

rtw

phasecactus · Post by **phasecactus** » Tue May 27, 2008 7:59 am

rtw wrote:Don't worry about soldering, it is most likely socketed.
I have never seen a soldered TIMEKEEPER.

rtw

Baaaaad news there, this one actually is soldered like a mother. I can't fathom why they did it, but eh. I replaced mine about a week ago and while I was at it installed a socket.

M48T58Y-70PC1 is the number you're gonna want to match.

rtw · Post by **rtw** » Tue May 27, 2008 8:36 am

phasecactus wrote:Baaaaad news there, this one actually is soldered like a mother. I can't fathom why they did it, but eh. I replaced mine about a week ago and while I was at it installed a socket.

M48T58Y-70PC1 is the number you're gonna want to match.

Bad news indeed, was it easy to cut the legs ?

M48T58Y-70PC1, good point important to get the PCDIP version.

May I ask where you bought yours ?

rtw

phasecactus · Post by **phasecactus** » Tue May 27, 2008 8:54 am

rtw wrote:Bad news indeed, was it easy to cut the legs ?

M48T58Y-70PC1, good point important to get the PCDIP version.

May I ask where you bought yours ?

rtw

More bad news really, I have an arcade tech shop at my disposal so there was actually an appropriate battery lying around from a long gone konami hardware. Similarly, I had access to a professional-grade solder vacuum and it was still kinda a hassle, so I truly wish him the best of luck.

Anyway, google shopping reports one for $18, but i can't check n the actual site because it's down for maintenance. Mouser has them too but seems to want you to buy at least 33 of them.

dpful · Post by **dpful** » Tue May 27, 2008 1:54 pm

I've never replaced chips before, really.

http://www.newark.com/jsp/search/produc ... B100000001

Is this what I need?

I'm having a hard time finding the socket to use, also (seemed like a good idea).

Is that the easieast method- try and snip the pins? (don't think it will work with this chip). Does the wick method work? I've got a cheap solder sucker around somewhere, but it sucks ass.

phasecactus · Post by **phasecactus** » Wed May 28, 2008 6:02 am

It doesn't quite look the same, but yeah, the all-important part number matches. That should be exactly what you need.
Definitely shell out the nominal fee for that, it made me feel a whole lot better about the working condition of the whole thing, regardless of its necessity or lack thereof.

I suppose snipping the extra off the pins and then solder sucking would be the best idea, wish I'd thought of the snipping myself.

rtw · Post by **rtw** » Wed May 28, 2008 6:23 am

phasecactus wrote:It doesn't quite look the same, but yeah, the all-important part number matches.

They state on the page that the picture is just for illustration purposes.

Snipping will work if you can get access to the legs.

rtw

phasecactus · Post by **phasecactus** » Wed May 28, 2008 4:15 pm

Speaking of which, let me be clearer: there is no way in heck you can get to the pins between the battery and board. Thing is down solid. I simply meant it would have been easier in retrospect if i had chopped off the extra bits of the pins coming out the solder side before using the solder sucker. Since the pins tend to interfere with the solder being sucked off one another.

dpful · Post by **dpful** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 3:52 pm

I bought a 10$ desoldering iron from radio shack (the kind with an iron with a sucker tip and bulb attached) and it worked like a charm. Put in a socket (so wouldn't have to do it again), inserted new chip, and now the game says all the stuff it said before:
RTC ERROR

INITIALIZING RTC

But now, in red, it says

RTC DEVICE ERROR (35D)

And the game stops there.

I tried the old chip (which always initialized, but wouldn't save settings after power off), and it did the same thing. So I thought I must have fucked up the instalation of the socket-- I checked every pin, there are tiny naked terminals EVERYWHERE next to the pins. I cheaned and scraped away around each pin and I think I got everything that could have been a problem- every trace and blob accounted for- but it still gives the error and won't boot.

Any advice? I thought that maybe there was a short that ruined the chip? (the old chip, too)- since I booted the board with each before my final check of the soldering. Should I blow another 20$ on a 3rd chip, chuck it in the garbage, or what?

rtw · Post by **rtw** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:05 pm

dpful wrote:RTC DEVICE ERROR (35D)

Do you get this message on both chips now ?

rtw

dpful · Post by **dpful** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 2:43 pm

Yeah, I do

rtw · Post by **rtw** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:14 am

dpful wrote:Yeah, I do

Then you have most likely broken something when desoldering
the first chip. If there was a short when you powered it on
the first time you most likely have blown a circuit.

I would start looking for a new PCB

rtw

dpful · Post by **dpful** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:51 pm

What about just fixing the shorts and getting a new chip (like maybe I just blew the chip?) Like maybe the short just blew both the chips- I powered it on with both.

er, if it says RTC device error, you think that it's probably not really the RTC device, but something else broken on the board?

rtw · Post by **rtw** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:25 pm

dpful wrote:What about just fixing the shorts and getting a new chip (like maybe I just blew the chip?) Like maybe the short just blew both the chips- I powered it on with both.

er, if it says RTC device error, you think that it's probably not really the RTC device, but something else broken on the board?

You can try a new chip but make sure everything is clean
before you insert it.

Edit:
Power the PCB and measure the pins in the socket making sure
you don't have 5V where there is not supposed to be any.

rtw

dpful · Post by **dpful** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 5:34 am

THanks to phasecactus, I am the proud owner of a working Gradius IV PCB, with a socketed battery chip, and enough extra batteries to last a lifetime.
Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hint, before changing chips, watch a youtube on it and get a small iron tip and be careful and stuff!

rtw · Post by **rtw** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:38 am

dpful wrote:THanks to phasecactus, I am the proud owner of a working Gradius IV PCB, with a socketed battery chip, and enough extra batteries to last a lifetime.

Hint, before changing chips, watch a youtube on it and get a small iron tip and be careful and stuff!

Good that you got it fixed

I actually played Gradius IV the other day after discovering

that it supports 15Khz.

Which youtube video are you referring to ?

rtw

dpful · Post by **dpful** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 5:09 pm

I can't remember-- I think it was youtube.. Once, I goog'd across a bunch of videos online that had these great tutorials on how to attach/remove a whole bunch of different kinds of chips and surface mounted stuff.

Really made me feel stupid after I'd worked on (and broken) my board.

Also, the CGA setting is so poor! Seems like they just skipped a bunch of lines and let the screen get small.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:28 pm

Awesome, good to know the board is still alive after all this time!

honorless · Post by **honorless** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:48 pm

dpful wrote:I can't remember-- I think it was youtube.

Aww damn, I was hoping this thread would turn into a goldmine of basic technical instruction since I'm such a newb. I'll have to look up those videos myself now...

Good to know you found a solution though.