Neon Genesis Evangelion

LoneSage · Post by **LoneSage** » Thu May 12, 2005 1:34 am

I'm not reading this thread, la la la *covers eyes*

Anyways.

Watched episodes 15-20 tonight. Series is starting to focus less on battles and more on the backstory of EVAs and what NERV really is.

I actually cringed when I saw the dummy plug rip apart EVA 04 (the Thirteenth Angel). I wonder why Toji was chosen to be the 4th Child, was it a test by Gendo to see what Shinji would do? Hmm. I actually kinda knew Toji was going to pilot an EVA, guess it was just a gut feeling.

When Rei is being used for that Human Experimental project, it looks like she is hooked up to a mechanical brain by the stem of it (what’s the brain stem called? Just a brain stem, I guess).

The Christian allusions seem to have little effect on the main story so far…

And I’ve figured that Rei is the offspring that Gendo wanted but never got.

crithit5000 · Post by **crithit5000** » Thu May 12, 2005 2:11 am

judesalmon wrote:Aren't the TV ending and EoE ending different? In each Shinji makes a different choice.

It years since I watched the series, so don't quote me.

To be vague as possible, he chooses the same thing...ah that doesn't work-

SPOILER!

In both he chooses to reject Third Impact and Instrumentality, and wishes to live as himself.

END SPOILER

Zach Keene · Post by **Zach Keene** » Thu May 12, 2005 5:20 am

Protip: [ color=#003952 ] might be a better "spoiler-hider":

Haha you can't see me! Neener neener neener!

crithit5000 · Post by **crithit5000** » Thu May 12, 2005 6:22 am

Duly noted, post edited. I was too lazy to find a hex for the font.

Zach Keene · Post by **Zach Keene** » Thu May 12, 2005 10:51 am

Well crap; forgot about the alternating color scheme in the topics themselves. #004263 is the lighter color.

On second thought, just ignore me. I'm making this more complicated than necessary.

Post by **Ghegs** » Thu May 12, 2005 11:01 am

Zach Keene wrote:On second thought, just ignore me. I'm making this more complicated than necessary.

Off-topic, but I think it would be possible (and maybe a good idea) to have proper

Spoiler

tags in the forums. Another forum I visit has those, and I think it's the exact same forum-program-type-thingy. Not that I actually know anything about these things. Anyway, there are examples here. It's a Finnish forum, but you should get the idea of spoiler-tags in any case.

Just click the button!

Zach Keene · Post by **Zach Keene** » Thu May 12, 2005 11:19 am

That forum is using vBulletin, not phpBB like we are. It's apparently possible to install phpBB mods that allow similar functionality though (like this one.) This would be a job for the admins, though.

And my apologies for starting this derailment.

Sly Cherry Chunks · Post by **Sly Cherry Chunks** » Thu May 12, 2005 12:32 pm

crithit5000 wrote:
judesalmon wrote:Aren't the TV ending and EoE ending different? In each Shinji makes a different choice.

It years since I watched the series, so don't quote me.
To be vague as possible, he chooses the same thing...ah that doesn't work-

SPOILER!

In both he chooses to reject Third Impact and Instrumentality, and wishes to live as himself.

END SPOILER

Wzuh? That's not right. ((Spoiler))

In the TV version the series ends with Shinji finally coming to terms with his own shortcomings and being integrated into the human intrumentality. Dodgy translation or not, they're all clearly still in there in the final scene - or at least that's how I interpreted it.

Of course in the movie he choses to end the entire process.

judesalmon · Post by **judesalmon** » Thu May 12, 2005 5:51 pm

^ Yeah, that's what I thought.

LoneSage · Post by **LoneSage** » Fri May 13, 2005 1:43 am

Watched episodes 21-23 tonight.

Though I had figured out what Rei really little by little through the course of the series, it was really sad to see she was just a shell without a soul.

I still have yet to see Shinji as whiny. Ever since Asuka’s introduction, I have considered her to be the whiniest character yet. She’s such an attention whore, but I don’t blame her for being one. Her mood really jumped out at me in episode 22.

The origin of NERV was really interesting; how odd to see Gendo rise from a nobody to a leader of the world. I’m still confused about what SEELE really is.

LoneSage · Post by **LoneSage** » Sat May 14, 2005 3:15 am

Hmph.

So, after all that time, it turns out to be a coming-of-age story. A goddamn coming-of-age story.

Not only that, but it failed to even end itself correctly.

Super.

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Sat May 14, 2005 3:31 am

Heh, watch the movie and see if that hypothesis still holds up...then watch the TV ending again and look for the parallels...

LoneSage · Post by **LoneSage** » Sat May 14, 2005 3:54 am

It just didn't feel fluid at all with the rest of the episodes; just a bunch of over-philosophised rants that boil down to...rants.

So what is Shinji, the new god of Earth, shaping it to his will? Bah humbug, what a ridiculous ending.

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Sat May 14, 2005 3:57 am

Again, remember that this is the point at which they ran out of money, and had to rely on trippiness to make the last 2 "clip show" episodes seem valid in any way. And again, watch the movie, the "original" ending...whatever "warm fuzzies" might be left over from the TV ending will be gone, I assure you. That's not to say that the movie is perfect or anything, but methinks it'll at least change your perception of what the series is leading up to, if nothing else...though you'll likely be thoroughly confused at any rate, heh.

sethsez · Post by **sethsez** » Sat May 14, 2005 4:04 am

Heh... yep, LoneSage pretty much summed it up. Evangelion is a whole lot of nothing.

TalkingOctopus · Post by **TalkingOctopus** » Sat May 14, 2005 6:06 am

I love Eva. It took me 3 times through the series to understand it. The first time I watched it as a sci fi show. The second time through I noticed things that you couldn't without the knowledge of a previous viewing. The third time I picked up on the deeper layers and the symbolism used to express Shinji's development from a boy to a man.

About the Christian symbols -- they are not entirely superficial but rather just an element of the plot. For example, Nerv is implementing a plan from the dead sea scrolls.

I think that episode 24 would be a good place to end. Shinji crushed karou and the world continued to exist. Anno totally fails to tell a coherent story in the last two episodes.

The platnium DVDs are excellent -- they improved the picture and the sound a lot. Also, I prefer the director's cut episodes along with the movie End of Eva instead of episodes 25 and 26. They make more sense to me. I think that the first part of End of Eva, Air, is great, but in the second part, Anno slips back into the format of episodes 25/26. Also, why does Anno show live action footage from real life and real people in the middle of the movie. I have never understood what I am supposed to get out of it?? I like the very end though, where Shinji tries to strangle Asuka. I think that is a good ending to one of the most most screwed-up things ever created.

LoneSage · Post by **LoneSage** » Sat May 14, 2005 4:03 pm

I mean, I just felt no closure at all to the series. Why did SEELE create the Angels? How did they create the Angels?

I know that with those last two episodes, it's evident that the Human Instrumentality project was a success -- everyone's thoughts and conscience had become a mass of one. It's just that the way they pulled off the last two episodes..eh, it felt so rushed.

Whatever, I'm watching EOE at a girl's house tonight, so maybe that'll be better.

judesalmon · Post by **judesalmon** » Sat May 14, 2005 6:41 pm

Japanese stories don't tend to have a lot of closure. That's more a Western thing.

Maybe it's more zen that way or something.

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Sat May 14, 2005 7:25 pm

TalkingOctopus wrote:About the Christian symbols -- they are not entirely superficial but rather just an element of the plot. For example, Nerv is implementing a plan from the dead sea scrolls.

They aren't the real-life Dead Sea Scrolls though: I believe that those contained mainly Biblical passages (from Isaiah and a few others, IIRC)...I think technically they're called the "Secret Dead Sea Scrolls," they're not supposed to be the same as the "real life" scrolls, just named after them...aka window dressing.

LoneSage wrote:Why did SEELE create the Angels? How did they create the Angels?

They didn't. If you watch the series again keep an eye out for hints into that area...

It's just that the way they pulled off the last two episodes..eh, it felt so rushed.

Again, you've gotta remember, it WAS rushed: the deadlines were looming and the budget was kaput. There are some "hardcore" Eva fans out there who insist that all the "K-Mart" scenes (and episodes) were purely manifestations of Anno's genius, but I definitely don't follow that camp. Eva isn't the "be all end all" of anime, or a "life changing experience" or anything like that, and it's definitely not for everyone, but I tend to think that a lot of the people who take every available opportunity to bash it haven't given it the time it needs, or aren't willing to.