Dodonpachi Daifukkatsu [Cave 2008]

[Udderdude]

Gameplay video on B-board!

Was definitely interesting to watch .. I like the new gameplay addition of the lasers. And new minibosses instead of rehashed DDP bosses = good.

But the lolibosses still look comically out of place And the music is totally forgettable. I didn't even notice it most of the time.

The hyper mode that cancels bullets seemed a bit too easy to survive through. Unless the player was doing it wrong ..

Oh well, not like I'll be playing this one any decade soon.

[Zebra Airforce]

Oh, I get it -- the music is a throwback to DoDonpachi. Remember how the same three songs were repeated?

[moozooh]

Show me a doujin game with a fraction of the dedication put into this.

I'm not the one to judge the dedication — in fact, the point will stay unprovable in any case — but the thing is, DOJ was an obvious qualitative improvement over DDP in scoring system depth, and difficulty/variety of the stuff that kills you, be that patterns, enemies, or whatnot. Here what I see is taking DOJ and simplifying it doujin-style: easier chaining, easier survival (permanently glowing hitbox, power item abandonment, bomb stock replenishing), hypers that let you bullet-cancel at will instead of making the game harder, adding loli crap whether it makes sense or not. It's taking a step forward, then two steps backward.

As bsidwell said, "this looks like how an x.x game would look if x.x could actually draw".

[MX7]

Oh, I get it -- the music is a throwback to DoDonpachi. Remember how the same three songs were repeated?

The songs repeat in the final version? Ultra lame. I guess the game pushes the hardware so much that there's no more room for music, but it still pissed me off about DDP.

Downloading the video now. Despite everyone elses trepidations, this sounds pretty much perfect to me.

[Zebra Airforce]

lol, no, I was joking because alot of the melodies are reused. Some from Shoot 'em All, some from ESPG2, some from DOJ. Also, the fifth stage song is like a remix of the first stage.

[PROMETHEUS]

this game is WAY WAY TOO LONG. It does loop right ? 25 + 25 minutes ? Are you kidding ??

I like how it looks and plays except for the easy hyper bullet cancel (except if the player was doing it wrong like said before but I doubt that), musics okay... It looks pretty hard but uninteresting if played for score through loop 1 + 2. I guess if I were to play it in a few decades I would only play loop 2. Fuck looping games.

[moozooh]

There seems to be three (?) difficulty settings; this playthrough was done on "Rank 2 (Normal)". I'm not sure if it loops, it doesn't actually seem so. However, you either need to play at a higher difficulty to see TLB (I hope it's an ultra-kickass-awesome rendition of Hibachi and not some housemaid-bee-transformer), or to fulfill conditions the current player has failed to fulfill. It definitely doesn't look like a looping game so far.

[PROMETHEUS]

omg that would rock

if you're right then I'm totally excited about this game

[Udderdude]

There seems to be three (?) difficulty settings; this playthrough was done on "Rank 2 (Normal)".

I didn't see any point where the player can change this, so I don't think it matters much. Arcade operators will just leave it at default ..

I'm not sure if it loops, it doesn't actually seem so. However, you either need to play at a higher difficulty to see TLB (I hope it's an ultra-kickass-awesome rendition of Hibachi and not some housemaid-bee-transformer), or to fulfill conditions the current player has failed to fulfill. It definitely doesn't look like a looping game so far.

Well, the music when he beats the first loop does not sound very much like 'YAY YOU BEAT THE GAME', more like 'UH OH, YOU'RE FUCKED'. Bad ending possibly?

[moozooh]

Heard of dipswitches? ;)

[GaijinPunch]

There's a difficulty setting in this like any other game. Traditionally, they have nothing to do w/ TLBs or loops.

I wouldn't say this is a step back. More like a step or two sideways.

[PROMETHEUS]

mmmh I don't know they certainly wouldn't only allow to change difficulty with dipswitches, that would suck because many people couldn't play rank 3 / wouldn't be interested in playing rank 1, if difficulty varies significantly enough between ranks. This is too easy for a 1 loop game, but too long to be a 2 loops game, and first loop would be a little hardcore if the player is supposed to 1 life no bomb it like in Dodonpachi. Mystery.

[PROMETHEUS]

There's a difficulty setting in this like any other game. Traditionally, they have nothing to do w/ TLBs or loops.

I wouldn't say this is a step back. More like a step or two sideways.

It's fucked then, it just has to loop, there's no way they would have made a game that easy :[

[Frederik]

Mmmh, looks a bit bland to be honest. Pretty repetetive. And the visuals and music don´t fit the DDP-atmosphere at all - the graphics are lovingly made but non-threatening (more in the direction of Mushi), and that Espgaluda II-like tune was completely out of place. Soft piano trance in a DDP game? It shows that Ikeda didn´t really want to make this game...

[Gwyrgyn Blood]

If it's anything like other recent Cave releases, there will probably be unlockables over time. Maybe a HARDER mode will be unlocked?

I'm not the one to judge the dedication — in fact, the point will stay unprovable in any case — but the thing is, DOJ was an obvious qualitative improvement over DDP in scoring system depth, and difficulty/variety of the stuff that kills you, be that patterns, enemies, or whatnot. Here what I see is taking DOJ and simplifying it doujin-style: easier chaining, easier survival (permanently glowing hitbox, power item abandonment, bomb stock replenishing), hypers that let you bullet-cancel at will instead of making the game harder, adding loli crap whether it makes sense or not. It's taking a step forward, then two steps backward.

I think plenty of people like DDP's scoring system better than DOJ's. Aside from that, I don't think the chaining is really that much easier in DFK anyway... you still drop the combo instantly if you've got a Hyper in stock, and I'm sure there will be times when you'll get a Hyper well before the ideal time to use it, so there will be plenty of anal scoring sections just like any DDP game. Plus, you can chain INTO the bosses, which means you've got to do the entire stage AND bosses correctly for a 'full chain' now. And even if there is combo slop the rest of the time, slop = less points, so being super careful will still be important for a high scoring run.

And Hypers aren't that strait forward either, there are plenty of areas with tons of bullets to reflect that also have lots of lasers to worry about, see Stage 4's spinner things as a good example.

Abandoning Powerups is a good thing in my opinion, they've been completely pointless in Cave shooters for a long time. If they couldn't think of anything interesting to do with them, might as well throw them out. Also, what all Doujin shooters DON'T have any sort of powerup system? I thought most of them did anyway.

The bomber thing is really pretty ridiculous though... so many bombs... they refill your Hyper meter and do a ton of damage. But again, they totally kill your chain, so playing for score will revolve around not using them. Probably a very smart change from the loke test where it didn't drop your chain at all.

I think the game is, as people have mentioned, really easy for survival, but leaves a shitton of room for experts to push for score. I am still wondering if using Power type will make any real score difference though, the only thing I know that it can do that the bomber type can't is reflect fat lasers without Hyper mode.

Now I very much do agree on the loli crap, that shit is really embarrassingly awful, and massively hurts the overall style of the game. I don't know how they could make a design decision like that, it's just terrible.

[320x240]

I wonder if Cave is trying to cater to both newcomers (by making the game easy) and veterans (by making it hard to score). If so they run the risk of not appealing to anybody (except through the strenght of the series).

Cave is still the kings when it comes to attention to detail though, and that is why their games will never look like doujins.

[PROMETHEUS]

I wonder if Cave is trying to cater to both newcomers (by making the game easy) and veterans (by making it hard to score). If so they run the risk of not appealing to anybody (except through the strenght of the series).

I think they've been doing that with almost all their games. Loops work with newcomers because the first loop is easy enough for them to deal with, and second loop + tricky scoring mechanics work with veterans because they are made to make them addicted and keep going for the best scores.

[EOJ]

There is a second loop. A couple Japanese players have already reached it, and it's really difficult.

[PROMETHEUS]

There is a second loop. A couple Japanese players have already reached it.

well, great...

officially not interested then :(

I can't believe this kind of gameplay still appeals to the guys who've been dealing with DDP or DOJ. Unless you only work with addiction you've got to hate the loop idea.

[j^aws]

Two games dealt with this loop 'problem' for 'skilled' and 'unskilled' players nearly 30 years ago (circa '81):

- Solar Fox: Scoring system based on speed; if you cleared stages fast enough, you'd be rewarded by skipping the easy stages and netting approriate points for it too...

- Stargate: Scoring system based on items collection (humanoids); if you collected enough humanoids and used the 'stargate/ warp', you'd be rewarded by warping the easy stages and netting appropriate points for it too...

[Necronopticous]

I just have to say that I'm really amazed that so many of you are whining about this. You guys seem way too concerned with the fact that they've thrown some color and bosses that look like/transform into girls, as if it is taking a jab at your masculinity or something.

I like the DoDonpachi games because they are very well designed. They have to be because the score system wouldn't work otherwise. That said, the stage design in this game is totally solid. Stage 3 is one of the cleanest looking stages, overall, that I've seen in awhile. I couldn't possibly care less if they switch up the generic shmup futuristic/militaristic jet fighter aesthetics that DoDonpachi uses. If that's all that makes DoDonpachi what it is to you, well then I would say that you're not seeing where the games truly shine.

I absolutely loved the way this looked, and it kills me that I have no chance of playing it anytime soon.

[elfhentaifan]

i am really curious about the TLB.
If loli, or not, he is going to be nuts to reach, let alone beat.

As far as i saw the new ddp is some steps harder than doj, since a lot more is happening on the screen.

I read there is *a "Bomb Mode" that is easier than Death Smiles *
Whats up with that one?

[Zeether]

nicovideo should have vids up of this game soon lol

[zlk]

There are ways to trigger the old ddp bosses as mid-bosses in the game. I wonder if before you reach the TLB of the game, some of the older TLBs from the donpachi series will make an appearance.

[ssfsx17]

I get the feeling that the story and the bosses are supposed to be humorous. Silly Japanese sense of humor.

[GaijinPunch]

I can't believe this kind of gameplay still appeals to the guys who've been dealing with DDP or DOJ. Unless you only work with addiction you've got to hate the loop idea.

Or they simply like the idea of a looping game? I don't see how this is hard to understand.

[Ruldra]

Second loop video here

Scary stuff

[orange]

i don't see how people like ddp's scoring over doj's

:3

[Udderdude]

I just have to say that I'm really amazed that so many of you are whining about this. You guys seem way too concerned with the fact that they've thrown some color and bosses that look like/transform into girls, as if it is taking a jab at your masculinity or something.

I like the DoDonpachi games because they are very well designed. They have to be because the score system wouldn't work otherwise. That said, the stage design in this game is totally solid. Stage 3 is one of the cleanest looking stages, overall, that I've seen in awhile. I couldn't possibly care less if they switch up the generic shmup futuristic/militaristic jet fighter aesthetics that DoDonpachi uses. If that's all that makes DoDonpachi what it is to you, well then I would say that you're not seeing where the games truly shine.

I agree the stages are really well designed, especially the laser rings in level 4. Very cool stuff.

But let's face it .. the loli bosses are ridiculous, no matter how you look at it. They don't ruin the game, but it sure as hell gets me laughing every time I see them.

[Udderdude]

Two games dealt with this loop 'problem' for 'skilled' and 'unskilled' players nearly 30 years ago (circa '81):

- Solar Fox: Scoring system based on speed; if you cleared stages fast enough, you'd be rewarded by skipping the easy stages and netting approriate points for it too...

- Stargate: Scoring system based on items collection (humanoids); if you collected enough humanoids and used the 'stargate/ warp', you'd be rewarded by warping the easy stages and netting appropriate points for it too...

Problem is that neither of these solutions would work with modern bullet hell shooters. Unless it was just like .. 'if(score>bigNumber) skipNoobLevels()' or something. Even then, it would have to add a whole ton of points as well, which defeats the purpose of planning a route for all stages.

Would be much better to just add different game skill levels, like Mushi.