I thought I was getting decent at shooters, and then...

Zebra Airforce · Post by **Zebra Airforce** » Mon May 19, 2008 6:47 am

You are playing in tate, right?

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Mon May 19, 2008 7:00 am

Generally no, but with the MAME version, that doesn't exactly change much, unless you're playing on a monitor that's small or something.

MX7 · Post by **MX7** » Mon May 19, 2008 7:46 am

When I upgraded to a slightly larger screen and switched to playing with a stick, I made it to the final boss on my first try. Previously I could only get to the start of level 5. I've only played it a few times since, but the 1cc is well in reach. I'm by far the worst gamer I know (laughably bad). With the right set up though, DDP becomes pretty easy for anyone.

TL;DR: make the game display as big as possible. Even a few cm will make a huge difference.

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Mon May 19, 2008 8:53 am

MX7 wrote:TL;DR: make the game display as big as possible. Even a few cm will make a huge difference.

I think almost the opposite :p Even multiplying screen size by 2 won't improve your performance at all, or so slightly you won't even notice. At least that's how it worked for me. That said, it's much nicer when displayed bigger with correct settings.

Like I said quite a few times I think the "big screen and stick totally required to play well !!" is a big myth.

MX7 · Post by **MX7** » Mon May 19, 2008 9:19 am

PROMETHEUS wrote:
MX7 wrote:TL;DR: make the game display as big as possible. Even a few cm will make a huge difference.
I think almost the opposite :p Even multiplying screen size by 2 won't improve your performance at all, or so slightly you won't even notice. At least that's how it worked for me. That said, it's much nicer when displayed bigger with correct settings.

Like I said quite a few times I think the "big screen and stick totally required to play well !!" is a big myth.

I used to think this as well. Now I don't. Different things work best for different people. Personally, a bigger screen was a revelation to me. I could see gaps that I could never see before, and I could let my periferal vision deal with attacks that previously I would be fixated on to the detriment of my survival. It just clicked, not just on Cave games, but on Raizing games too. I'm not saying you're wrong (your scores speak for themselves), I'm just saying that I'd reccomend trying a few different set ups to everyone, as the difference a stick and big(ger) screen made to me was really quite striking.

Zebra Airforce · Post by **Zebra Airforce** » Mon May 19, 2008 9:41 am

Well, my monitor is pretty small

MX7 · Post by **MX7** » Mon May 19, 2008 9:48 am

Half a monitor, half a man.

Zebra Airforce · Post by **Zebra Airforce** » Mon May 19, 2008 9:52 am

MX7 wrote:Half a monitor, half a man.

Are you challenging me to a competition?

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Mon May 19, 2008 10:16 am

My current good run is stage 6 with ~62M points and no bombs used. I do this with a PS2 controller on a 17" monitor, played IN WINDOW MODE because of video driver and direct 3D issues. I flipped the monitor on its side, switched to tate, tripling the screen size or so (no longer need to window, you see), and after a few false starts, what did I get? 62M, stage 6, no bombs used. It didn't even feel like it was helping. If anything it was annoying not being able to keep track of the entire screen at once, I had to focus on whichever quarter I was in or so. Also, I've never been able to get used to playing shooters with my HRAP. I just always do way way WAY worse. Infinitely worse. I LOVE my HRAP for fighters, but for shooters? Fuck it, pad for life. And look at Prometheus, he uses a fucking keyboard.

I'm just not getting any better at this point is my real problem. 2-3 months of playing 3-XX credits a day and I haven't improved at all. It starts to get discouraging after a while.

MX7 · Post by **MX7** » Mon May 19, 2008 10:25 am

Zebra Airforce wrote:
MX7 wrote:Half a monitor, half a man.
Are you challenging me to a competition?

You beast, you.

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Mon May 19, 2008 11:11 am

Arvandor wrote:I'm just not getting any better at this point is my real problem. 2-3 months of playing 3-XX credits a day and I haven't improved at all. It starts to get discouraging after a while.

You should try making statistics on your runs, I've been doing that since I started my runs for the 2-ALL and shit. Even when you feel you may not be improving, statistics you make on your runs can show you you're wrong. You could keep track of where you first miss in each run or how many times you miss in loop1 and make an average number of miss over the last 50 or 100 runs or something, I'm sure you'll see you have improved.

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Mon May 19, 2008 11:22 am

Unless I decide to start throwing bombs around, I miss 5 times in loop 1, every time, 100%. I lose my last life usually on the stage 5 boss, occasionally earlier, sometimes somewhere in stage 6. My first miss is almost always on stage 4, I rarely one-life that stage. I still miss on stage 3 a fair bit of the time, but not nearly as bad as last time I ranted about my consistancy on stage 3 =)

It's stage 5 that still has me walled up, really. I'll either screw up and get one of the big square turrets firing down the middle, which is death or bomb, gauranteed. Or I'll just simply miss the hole I'm trying to fly through. The last really REALLY good run I had, I choked hard on the stage 5 boss and missed THREE FUCKING TIMES. I mean, what the hell? I figured I'd die once at the most and go into stage 6 with a fair number of lives left. Apparently that was the wrong answer.

Zebra Airforce · Post by **Zebra Airforce** » Mon May 19, 2008 11:30 am

I'll just simply miss the hole I'm trying to fly through.

Hmm, this is what makes me think your playing area is too small. It's true that it can be difficult to learn to see everything at once, but playing on a bigger screen will make it much easier to judge spaces you can squeeze through. I'm not the kind of person who believes that you can only be successful with a certain setup, but I think that in a game like DoDonPachi the size of the screen is going to make it easier or more difficult for you to move with precision.

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Mon May 19, 2008 11:47 am

No, missing the holes is purely piloting error, and field size has little or nothing to do with it. I already told you, I tried flipping it and going for tate, which makes the playing field quite a lot larger, but I still missed holes all the same. In fact, I just had a fairly decent run where I almost took out the 6th boss and had 68M points (I did have to bomb a lot though). I only died once in stage 5 (not including one more on the boss), and did so on my good ol' yoko windowed mode setup.

moozooh · Post by **moozooh** » Mon May 19, 2008 11:50 am

In my experience, large screen helps exactly that: precision. It's way more difficult to do quick pixel-scale estimations when the pixels are so small. Large screen potentially gives more advantages if you get around to training your peripheral vision.

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Mon May 19, 2008 4:49 pm

when I switched to tate I actually had a harder time dodging properly for a while, then it came back to normal ^^

Arvandor : again, you look like you lack method. Stage 5's turrets should never hit you because if your method is right you are not in their line of fire at all. Stage 5 boss is very easy because full of holes if played properly. I'm curious to see an inp of you I'm pretty sure you're just using super unsafe paths. Just do record one and show me.

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Tue May 20, 2008 12:27 am

I'll try and see if I can get a replay saved I'm not TOO ashamed of. It's not the turrets that hit me though. They kill me indirectly. I have a really hard time getting them to fire to one side or the other. All too often I misstime a sweep to one side, get the turret firing straight down the middle, which keeps me locked down to the side I'm stuck on and I get swarmed. I usually brave trying to weave through the turret fire back to the other side, but I rarely manage such a feat.

The most common death for me on the 5th boss is when I'm trying to exit the point blank safe spot while he's spamming missiles. Right at the end when he moves down and towards the middle of the screen to fire all his gun pods, he'll sandwich me between himself and an explosion, with no room to escape. I've been trying to hop out a little early, but If I'm not REALLY careful, I'll die while doing so. And if I'm overly careful, I'll miss my window and get sandwiched =P

If I'm lucky, I'll be able to catch these mistakes in the replay, and not some less common random stupidity mistakes.

KNTain · Post by **KNTain** » Tue May 20, 2008 1:59 am

This sounds stupid and anal, but if you're using your PS2 pad and HRAP through a USB adapter, you might be getting some input lag.

The one I used to use probably caused a few frames of lag. I started doing better at Battle Bakraid (lol i know) once I switched to a native controller.

Then again, it could also be a total non-issue. Depends on the adapter.

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Tue May 20, 2008 3:28 am

I've never really had a problem with this adapter. On the odd occasion we played Guilty Gear XX on my friend's laptop, I could still hit those 1-3 frame FRC's no problem, so I don't think there's any input lag. More like not pressing the button down enough or something. Maybe one of those PS2 Saturn pads would help.

No replay tonight if things keep up like this. Either I can't focus properly when I know I'm recording an inp, or I'm having a really off night, but either way, I can't manage to get a run I'm happy with. I'll try again later after working out, eating lunch, and watching some Battlestar Gallactica.

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Wed May 21, 2008 3:05 am

Apparently the computer at work can't handle recording inps. For the most part it's ok, but once or twice a run it'll start frame skipping a lot, for a second or two. I was on probably the best run I've ever had and then proceeded to die twice in stage 5 due to the absurd slowdown >_< Then I was annoyed and made a couple more stupid mistakes because I was too annoyed to be focused.

I'll have to try and record an inp at home if I can break myself away from Battlestar Gallactica for long enough to do so =)