How did the origin of danmaku shmups come about?

PC Engine Fan X! · Post by **PC Engine Fan X!** » Sun May 11, 2008 6:23 pm

The above topic says it all...and do you think there is room for improvement in the danmaku genre of shmups? ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

moozooh · Post by **moozooh** » Sun May 11, 2008 6:35 pm

Yes there is. If I weren't too lazy to learn programming languages, I'd already show it, heh.

There is still a lot of potential for unique scoring systems, unique bullet patterns or methods of using them, etc.

shoe-sama · Post by **shoe-sama** » Sun May 11, 2008 6:46 pm

needs more badass memorable patterns

not some boring shit that's slow easy to dodge w/o effort and looks pretty

needs to have some degree of memorization/planning
patterns that whoop your ass the first time around

Cave actually does this well, I dunno why I hate Cave lol

Hulkcore · Post by **Hulkcore** » Sun May 11, 2008 7:12 pm

shoe-sama wrote:needs more badass memorable patterns

not some boring shit that's slow easy to dodge w/o effort and looks pretty

needs to have some degree of memorization/planning
patterns that whoop your ass the first time around

Cave actually does this well, I dunno why I hate Cave lol

I also think what Cave does well is keeping a mix of slow/complex, and faster/twitch patterns, sometimes at the same moment.

shoe-sama · Post by **shoe-sama** » Sun May 11, 2008 7:26 pm

they can do without the fast ones and still make badass patterns

especially them bosses in ketsui

damn... lol

so cool

elfhentaifan · Post by **elfhentaifan** » Sun May 11, 2008 7:29 pm

shoe-sama wrote:they can do without the fast ones and still make badass patterns

especially them bosses in ketsui

damn... lol

so cool

i just watched imakichis ketsui replay in full length (for the xxxth time) and got a flash again.
It's so amazing i finally get to play ketsui this summer

FIL · Post by **FIL** » Sun May 11, 2008 7:38 pm

We need more super fast orange bullets with tiny slow sniper bullets mixed in.

PC Engine Fan X! · Post by **PC Engine Fan X!** » Sun May 11, 2008 7:45 pm

Why not use the entire rainbow color spectrum to great effect with the danmaku genre...surely Cave could pull that off. The Success produced Taito G-Net version of Psyvariar Revision had a great mixture of different colored bullets, especially on the last end-stage boss showdown. ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

Necronopticous · Post by **Necronopticous** » Sun May 11, 2008 7:46 pm

More lolis.

it290 · Post by **it290** » Sun May 11, 2008 8:00 pm

Why not use the entire rainbow color spectrum to great effect with the danmaku genre

Because it makes the game harder to play?

overkill55 · Post by **overkill55** » Sun May 11, 2008 8:02 pm

shoe-sama wrote:they can do without the fast ones and still make badass patterns

especially them bosses in ketsui

damn... lol

so cool

I heard Viper Phase 1 does this, you should really check that game out

elfhentaifan · Post by **elfhentaifan** » Sun May 11, 2008 9:38 pm

Necronopticous wrote:More lolis.

but not in dodonpachi, please

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Sun May 11, 2008 11:55 pm

How did the origin of danmaku shmups come about?

Tsuneki Ikeda wrote:[snip] A long time ago, I hated bullet dodging. Around the time I was playing Slap Fight, I'd move around and coincidentally move unscathed through the bullets. It was then that I came to like dodging. I tend to make the player do so forcefully to an extent. Faced with the question of how to convey the fun in bullet dodging, I played around with making the hit box smaller, and the bullets fiercer.

I'd say that was the start.

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Mon May 12, 2008 12:25 am

Tsuneki Ikeda wrote:I tend to make the player do so forcefully to an extent.

TO AN EXTENT?! I'd hate to see what his idea of all out would be.

orange · Post by **orange** » Mon May 12, 2008 1:10 am

one time someone made touhou and then games were bad for the rest of time

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Mon May 12, 2008 2:00 am

Arvandor wrote:
Tsuneki Ikeda wrote:I tend to make the player do so forcefully to an extent.
TO AN EXTENT?! I'd hate to see what his idea of all out would be.

That was written a long time ago. He hadn't gone overboard yet.

-Bridget- · Post by **-Bridget-** » Mon May 12, 2008 3:19 am

orange wrote:one time someone made touhou and then games were bad for the rest of time

Im going to be quoting this one for awhile, hah.

Regardless, I know Im glad that the "Danmaku" types came to be; I get into these alot more than the more "traditional" ones.... the wacky, complicated patterns are alot more interesting than too many simple, fast, direct shots.

Sycada · Post by **Sycada** » Mon May 12, 2008 11:49 am

-Bridget- wrote: Regardless, I know Im glad that the "Danmaku" types came to be; I get into these alot more than the more "traditional" ones.... the wacky, complicated patterns are alot more interesting than too many simple, fast, direct shots.

Agreed. I've never hated shooters or anything but it wasn't until I stumbled upon DoDonpachi while browsing in Mame many years ago that the doors were blown off my shooter world and I saw just how awesome they could be. Now Danmaku, Cave in particular, is a mild obsession

MR_Soren · Post by **MR_Soren** » Mon May 12, 2008 1:13 pm

GaijinPunch wrote:
How did the origin of danmaku shmups come about?

Tsuneki Ikeda wrote:[snip] A long time ago, I hated bullet dodging. Around the time I was playing Slap Fight, I'd move around and coincidentally move unscathed through the bullets. It was then that I came to like dodging. I tend to make the player do so forcefully to an extent. Faced with the question of how to convey the fun in bullet dodging, I played around with making the hit box smaller, and the bullets fiercer.
I'd say that was the start.

That's an interesting quote. Would this have been pre-Cave?

I like how Cave's games give you an unrelenting sense of danger and malice from your enemies. Some other games of this type feel more like, "I'm shooting pretty colors! Be careful not to touch them! *giggle*"

Mortificator · Post by **Mortificator** » Mon May 12, 2008 2:09 pm

MR_Soren wrote:That's an interesting quote. Would this have been pre-Cave?

No, it's from 2000 or thereabouts. GP translated the full interview for his site. It's pretty interesting.

Ikeda also lists Salamander as one of his favorite shooters, and I've heard it was an influence on him from a couple of other places. Salamander's about finding safe spots from bullets instead of weaving through them, but the enemies do put out a hell of a lot of fire.

Of course, Batsugun was when Ikeda really got to put his bullet-hell dodge-a-thon ideology into practice.

lgb · Post by **lgb** » Mon May 12, 2008 8:57 pm

FIL wrote:We need more super fast orange bullets with tiny slow sniper bullets mixed in.

Necronopticous wrote:More lolis.

See? If people would just work together, there can be some really awesome ideas.

Mortificator wrote:Salamander's about finding safe spots from bullets instead of weaving through them, but the enemies do put out a hell of a lot of fire.

This is true. I'm not surprised that Cavadius was a combination of Cave and a vertical style (like Salamander). Of course that's usually what Cave does, but Progear exists.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Tue May 13, 2008 12:18 am

For the record, I've not heard of any pre-Cave interviews with any of Cave's major staff, although they talk about their time with Toaplan. I do find it a bit odd that Ikeda rates Battle Garegga as a such a benchmark of the genre.