James Joyce was an evil, evil man.

sethsez · Post by **sethsez** » Tue May 10, 2005 6:53 am

I'm currently reading Finnegans Wake. No, I'm not being forced to, I just decided to for the hell of it. And now I feel commited, so I'm going to struggle on as long as I can.

Everyone who's already read it is laughing at me right now. Luckily, I sincerely doubt anyone here (or most anywhere) has actually managed to read the whole thing.

I just felt like sharing. People who know what this book is like get what I mean... people who don't know what it's like should read any random paragraph in it, and they'll understand too.

And I thought Ulysses was pompous...

captain ahar · Post by **captain ahar** » Tue May 10, 2005 7:39 am

i had a friend who read for a senior english project. she ended up getting a c or something. i read a few pages, and it is on the funniest things i have read.

even though it made my eyes hurt.

sethsez · Post by **sethsez** » Tue May 10, 2005 7:47 am

I can't even begin to imagine having to write a paper on this thing.

CMoon · Post by **CMoon** » Tue May 10, 2005 11:13 am

I always heard it helps to read it out loud--you could give that a try. Haha, they should have this on tape somewhere so you can just have it playing all the time until -somehow- you start to understand it.

Andi · Post by **Andi** » Tue May 10, 2005 1:19 pm

It's style and inventive use of language is the best part of that book. I hope that isn't what you are complaining about. While, I'll agree that it wears on you sometimes, I don't think that it is as unreadable as you make it out to be.

Diabollokus · Post by **Diabollokus** » Tue May 10, 2005 4:40 pm

Whats it about just out of curiosity? In need of a half decent summer read, lord of the rings trilogy + hobbit lasted me a week or 2

sethsez · Post by **sethsez** » Tue May 10, 2005 5:47 pm

Andi wrote:It's style and inventive use of language is the best part of that book. I hope that isn't what you are complaining about. While, I'll agree that it wears on you sometimes, I don't think that it is as unreadable as you make it out to be.

I love the style and the language. It's the main reason I'm reading it. Everything sounds amazing.

It's also the main reason it's absolutely impenetrable. Anyone who claims that they fully understand all the layers of the plot and got all of the symbolism is lying. Though I guess being Irish would help a great deal here with the cultural references and the history (but not totally... there are still those pesky thunderwords to deal with).

Diabollokus wrote:Whats it about just out of curiosity? In need of a half decent summer read, lord of the rings trilogy + hobbit lasted me a week or 2

Heh... well, it's about the thoughts of a dying man (or an already dead man). It's also about a family in Dublin. It's also about the history of Dublin. It's also about the history of mankind. And it's written entirely like this:

"...with goodly trowel in grasp and ivoroiled overalls which he habitacularly fondseed, like Haroun Childeric Eggeberth he would caligulate by multiplicables the alltitude and malltitude until he seesaw by neatlight of the liquor wheretwin 'twas born, his roundhead staple of other days to rise in undress maisonry upstanded (joygrantit!), a waalworth of a skyerscape of most eyeful hoyth entowerly, erigenating from next to nothing and celescalating the himals and all, hierarchitectitiptitoploftical, with a burning bush abob off its baubletop and with larrons o'toolers clittering up and tombles a'buckets clottering down..."

And the book contains ten words like this that (supposedly) have great significance to the overall story and theme:

Perkodhuskurunbarggruauyagokgorlayorgromgremmitghundhurthrumathunaradidillifaititillibumullunukkunun

No, that's not random.

Acid King · Post by **Acid King** » Tue May 10, 2005 5:50 pm

I hear it's better to read it with a guide because it's filled with obscure references and a mish mash of languages.

Kiel · Post by **Kiel** » Tue May 10, 2005 6:44 pm

haha I started laughing before I even finished the first sentance.

Andi · Post by **Andi** » Tue May 10, 2005 6:53 pm

sethsez wrote:I love the style and the language. It's the main reason I'm reading it. Everything sounds amazing.

It's also the main reason it's absolutely impenetrable. Anyone who claims that they fully understand all the layers of the plot and got all of the symbolism is lying.

If you could understand every nuance of the book, it would be a very shallow book, heh.

CMoon · Post by **CMoon** » Tue May 10, 2005 6:55 pm

Diabollokus wrote:Whats it about just out of curiosity? In need of a half decent summer read, lord of the rings trilogy + hobbit lasted me a week or 2

I think there are a lot of more accessible reads by Joyce. Though why Joyce at all? The summer is upon us; the sea calls! It is time to read Moby Dick (again.)

sethsez · Post by **sethsez** » Tue May 10, 2005 7:34 pm

Andi wrote:
sethsez wrote:I love the style and the language. It's the main reason I'm reading it. Everything sounds amazing.

It's also the main reason it's absolutely impenetrable. Anyone who claims that they fully understand all the layers of the plot and got all of the symbolism is lying.
If you could understand every nuance of the book, it would be a very shallow book, heh.

Then I shall change it to "anyone who claims they understood 10% of what's going on in the book (nuance included) is lying."

judesalmon · Post by **judesalmon** » Tue May 10, 2005 7:36 pm

I much rather read some Philip K. Dick - his stuff doesn't make sense because he was off-his-face on amphetamines, not pompousity.

Bydobasher · Post by **Bydobasher** » Tue May 10, 2005 7:47 pm

Anyone who claims that they fully understand all the layers of the plot and got all of the symbolism is lying.

I don't think anyone, anywhere, at any time, has claimed any such thing. There's a lot of very sensible analysis of Ulysses out there, but my understanding is that much of "the Wake" remains thoroughly bewildering even to literary scholars.

Personally, I've never really given it a shot. I've leafed thru the book on occasion, and I agree completely with Andi and sethsez that the language Joyce employs (synthesizes? invents?) often has a rapturous quality, and makes for a fantastic "listen". On the other hand, my comprehension of the book could at best be described as "fleeting".

I think there are a lot of more accessible reads by Joyce.

No question about that. The short stories of Dubliners, the 36 poems of Chamber Music, and the semi-autobiographical novel A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man are all easy enough, and worth having a look at -- especially "The Dead", the final story in Dubliners, which is one of my favourites. Although I find it overlong, Ulysses too is much more accessible than Finnegan's Wake. I read it in high school, and while I would never pretend to be an authority on the book, and some of the chapters had me baffled, I still got a lot out of it, and on the whole I would say I enjoyed it.

I much rather read some Philip K. Dick

I haven't read much PKD, but yeah, I like him too.

alpha5099 · Post by **alpha5099** » Tue May 10, 2005 7:51 pm

Kiel wrote:haha I started laughing before I even finished the first sentance.

First sentence? That wasn't even one sentence.[/i]

Diabollokus · Post by **Diabollokus** » Tue May 10, 2005 8:28 pm

ulysses was certainly an interesting read, have any of you guy read the works of douglas hill? bloody brilliant stuff. check it out.

Kiel · Post by **Kiel** » Tue May 10, 2005 8:53 pm

alpha5099 wrote:
Kiel wrote:haha I started laughing before I even finished the first sentance.
First sentence? That wasn't even one sentence.[/i]

lol, I just assumed. I stopped at the begining of the second line, I couldnt make it through the rest.

sethsez · Post by **sethsez** » Tue May 10, 2005 9:35 pm

Despite calling it pompous in my first post (and I'll stand by that) I have to admit I really enjoyed Ulysses, much for the same reason as Finnegans Wake thus far... his command of language is amazing.

it290 · Post by **it290** » Wed May 11, 2005 3:40 pm

I haven't finished Finnegan's Wake myself, but if you like books that are somewhat cryptic, check out Gravity's Rainbow by Thomas Pynchon. It's my favorite novel and a hell of a read, has a lot of humor in it as well.

Tomtom · Post by **Tomtom** » Thu May 12, 2005 6:30 am

Perkodhuskurunbarggruauyagokgorlayorgromgremmitghundhurthrumathunaradidillifaititillibumullunukkunun

That's it. I'm reading this book.

sethsez · Post by **sethsez** » Thu May 12, 2005 8:49 am

Heh, that's the attitude that got me into this in the first place.

I've put the book aside for a bit until I pick up a guide tomorrow. It's almost entirely incomprehensible without one.

And I've been meaning to check out Gravity's Rainbow for a while, it290. I might move on to that once I'm done with this.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Thu May 12, 2005 4:40 pm

I read Finnegan's Wake twice when I was 16. Major literature-binge era for me. I didn't get all of it, but I got enough. I found parts tiring, but it didn't drag as much as Ulysses. I have no plans on reading this ever again, far too draining and far too many obscure parts to make it very enjoyable for me. It's fun to whip out and read a random sentence aloud now and then, but that's it.

Best book no one's read: Journey by Moonlight by Antal Szerb (it's also called "The Traveler" in another English translation, I have no idea why they used this title, as the original Hungarian translates to "Journey by Moonlight"). Translated from the original Hungarian into English for the first time just a few years ago. Excellent work, reminds me of a lot of Joyce and Woolf (particularly the themes of religion and suicide), but far more accessible than either. Written in the late 1930s I believe, Szerb died in 1945 in a Nazi concentration camp (he was a Hungarian Jew).

Speaking of (Virginia) Woolf, I'd just like to add "The Waves" is probably the most beautiful thing ever written. Hopefully you've all read that.