DDPDFK vs. Deathsmiles - which would you get? (store owner)

SuperPang · Post by **SuperPang** » Fri May 09, 2008 10:52 am

Deathsmiles is definitely the right choice. Half the price of Daifukkatsu and the art direction will have more appeal to anime fans.

Go for an older cab with a dual sync monitor over an AWSD though.

McMasters · Post by **McMasters** » Fri May 09, 2008 7:15 pm

Go for an older cab with a dual sync monitor over an AWSD though.

I already have an Atomiswave cabinet waiting for a game.

PC Engine Fan X! · Post by **PC Engine Fan X!** » Fri May 09, 2008 8:12 pm

McMasters wrote:
Go for an older cab with a dual sync monitor over an AWSD though.
I already have an Atomiswave cabinet waiting for a game.

Why not just pick up an Dodonpachi Dai Ou Jou PCB for starters and replace it with the upcoming DDP-DFK PCB when it finally is released on "day one"? If it doesn't do well business-wise, there's always the ability to resell it and get your intial monetary investment back...

You might also consider picking up Jaleco's Game Paradise: Master of Shooting/Game Tengoku PCB for it's cool opening intro anime presentation...

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Fri May 09, 2008 10:18 pm

Why not just pick up an Dodonpachi Dai Ou Jou PCB for starters and replace it with the upcoming DDP-DFK PCB

As he said, Arcade Exclusivity is a *must*. DOJ is out.

Go with Death Smiles. Daifukkatsu will turn off any casual players. It's not easy in the least.

There's plenty of strategy info out on Death Smiles as well. I started a strategy thread. Maybe someone that picked up the PCB can add to it and you can sum up and make a print out to help any crappy player along.

McMasters · Post by **McMasters** » Fri May 09, 2008 10:41 pm

Gaijin, I think I agree.

I'll look more into it. Let me check out this thread of yours..

McMasters · Post by **McMasters** » Fri May 09, 2008 10:51 pm

Quick question, the Cave page doesn't seem to have it, and wikis are conflicting - is this (DS) a 1 player game? 2 player take-turns? 2-player simul?

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Fri May 09, 2008 10:58 pm

2 player simultaneous

i've seen a japanese dude playing deathsmiles in 2 player by himself

(ie controlling each character with one hand)

elfhentaifan · Post by **elfhentaifan** » Fri May 09, 2008 11:11 pm

the legendary DoublePlay's
who will ever understand how they work?

ill6 · Post by **ill6** » Sat May 10, 2008 4:22 pm

Personally wouldn't recommend either. I expect DDP would be super hardcore and pretty niche. I think death smiles is more "casual gamer" so that would be the natural choice over DDP.... You can get to the last level without much skill first time if you play on level 1 (= good value for customer but may take longer to get money back I guess).

Put it this way though on DS - It didn't grab me when I played in Japan; I have every other Cave PCB and had the cash to pick it up as a momento but it just didn't seem that exciting... I didn't get it and I figured it would go down soon enough. Plus its horizontal.

On the other hand it was popular in the Tokyo arcades (maybe a factor of its newness).

I would go with something cheaper and older if possible... Espgaluda 2 or MSFutari I think would draw crowds and keep them putting money in. If you are flush I would get MSF Black Label.

Others worth considering would be Muchi Muchi Pork - its a lot of fun and very accessible. Also some older ones would probably pay you back quicker. E.g. Guwange or Espgaluda or Dangun are pretty cheap compared to the newer boards.

McMasters · Post by **McMasters** » Sat May 10, 2008 4:45 pm

Which of those, if any, are arcade-exclusive, though? Most have a port or two.

I dunno. I have to get something 'shiny' (new-looking), which is why I'm going for a shmup - they are visually appealing and 'busy', plus I am a big fan myself..

moozooh · Post by **moozooh** » Sat May 10, 2008 4:59 pm

Ibara (2005) was Cave's last game that was ported. Everything after that has been arcade-exclusive.

PC Engine Fan X! · Post by **PC Engine Fan X!** » Sat May 10, 2008 4:59 pm

McMasters wrote:Which of those, if any, are arcade-exclusive, though? Most have a port or two.

I dunno. I have to get something 'shiny' (new-looking), which is why I'm going for a shmup - they are visually appealing and 'busy', plus I am a big fan myself..

Guwange, Dangun Feveron & Feveron SOS are classic Cave PCB arcade exclusives and all newer Cave produced starting with ESPgaluda 2 and after it have never been ported whatsoever...

If you like 1970's BGM tunes with crazy hyper-fast shmup action, then Dangun Feveron would fit the bill. It is quite affordable and barely makes a dent on your wallet as far as classic Cave shmup PCB sell for on the used PCB market. There was a flawless and mint condition Dangun PCB kit with all original paperworks + factory Cave/Atlus box that went for 200,000+ yen on YAJ some time back. I'm quite content with just a "barebones" Feveron PCB myself... ^_~

Good luck on whatever Cave arcade exclusive PCB you decide to purchase. And heed the advice of your customers to tone down the difficulty if the quarters aren't streaming in like they used to...of course, the "default" arcade difficulty setting works just fine in most situations (i.e. -- three lives for one credit). ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

ill6 · Post by **ill6** » Sat May 10, 2008 5:13 pm

McMasters wrote:Which of those, if any, are arcade-exclusive, though? Most have a port or two.

I dunno. I have to get something 'shiny' (new-looking), which is why I'm going for a shmup - they are visually appealing and 'busy', plus I am a big fan myself..

All of the ones in my post are arcade only at the moment.

You could buy Esp2, Dangun, Guwange and Espgaulda for a DDP 5 kit!

moozooh · Post by **moozooh** » Sat May 10, 2008 5:39 pm

Yeah, if you want them to be played without cabs, that is. ;)

McMasters · Post by **McMasters** » Sat May 10, 2008 5:50 pm

Thanks for the info. Of the listed ones, are any of them (not sure of the terminology) 'MAME'ed? That was a prob with the NAOMI games out there.

I've watched two playthroughs of DS - Windia and Rosa - and the game looks, I dunno, 'easy'. even on the lvl 3 difficulty. Easy sucks, as it both has the business side of half-hour chump lays, and that easy games aren't played a lot, as they are boring - oo, i beat it again, not yay, i beat it.

blah. Arcade Exclusive is a must, as is 'new' (as much as I am a Feveron fan, it's old-looking -_-) I guess I'm back to picking between:

Mushifutari (and this looks a little old at that)
DS
DDP DFK

Gah, what a circular discussion. You guy'sve seen Deathsmiles playthroughs, right? Easy?

I may have to wait for a good, non sneakycam video of DDPDFK.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Sat May 10, 2008 6:37 pm

Deathsmiles is easy if you choose rank 1 or 2. If you choose all rank 3, it's really not easy at all. The last stage is pretty damn hard with those suicide bullets flying at you from every direction.

If you want an awesome vertical game at a decent price, get Mushi Futari. It has 3 different game modes (Original, Maniac, and Ultra) which all play very differently. Sure to keep people busy for awhile.

honorless · Post by **honorless** » Sat May 10, 2008 6:57 pm

McMasters wrote:Thanks for the info. Of the listed ones, are any of them (not sure of the terminology) 'MAME'ed? That was a prob with the NAOMI games out there.

Dangun Feveron/Fever S.O.S., Guwange and ESPrade (not mentioned yet) are all great in MAME, so avoid them like the plague.

If you're that concerned about the difficulty, I would go for Mushi Futari or ESPGaluda 2—not DDP DFK. Maybe you should ask some of your regulars what they think about Touhou (have they heard of it, do they like it?) to get an idea of the ability level you should target.

The reason I say to avoid DDP DFK is that it may end up being the nicest-looking of all three, but it isn't SO much prettier and newer that Mushi Futari or ESP 2 resemble chopped liver in comparison. (At least not that I can tell!)
Assuming that Mushi Futari and ESP2 are NOT completely blown out of the water by DFK, it doesn't make logical sense to pay so much more for a DFK kit when your goal is to break even/make money.

(Now if you're considering a DFK kit because you're a Donpachi fan who wants a DFK kit eventually and is hoping to justify the cost, that's another story.)

McMasters · Post by **McMasters** » Sat May 10, 2008 7:02 pm

(Now if you're considering a DFK kit because you're a Donpachi fan who wants a DFK kit eventually and is hoping to justify the cost, that's another story.)

Pretty much, but I can wait and save a thousand bucks.

DS is hard at the final level, which is 30 minutes in.

Hmm.

Does anyone know of a quality MushiFutari video (not Youtube)? All the vid I've seen looks like the typical old neon death parade - which I am a fan of, but the store won't be.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Sat May 10, 2008 7:10 pm

McMasters wrote:
Does anyone know of a quality MushiFutari video (not Youtube)?

Here's a high quality, high scoring Maniac mode video with Reco I uploaded awhile back:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=X7T9YQKS

McMasters · Post by **McMasters** » Sat May 10, 2008 7:11 pm

Excellent, thanks! I'll look this over ASAP.

moozooh · Post by **moozooh** » Sat May 10, 2008 7:12 pm

Does DS have any dip switches that lock difficulty? Also, I don't think a Cave game can be 1CC'd on at least 50 first credits by someone who isn't a hardcore manic shmup player.

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Sat May 10, 2008 7:27 pm

honestly you must have some hardcore shmup mofos come into your store if youre shunting deathsmiles only because of the difficulty.

yeah to a few players on this forum the first few levels of DS might come across as easy but the average gamer will definetly feel the heat there already, sure it takes 30mins to 1CC (as do nearly all cave games) but if everyone in your store can walk in and 1CC it you should set up a recording device, youll make a killing in the superplay buisness.

if you opt for DDP5 your only reason should be that you want to play it yourself, trust me, that game will make you NO money at all.
neither will futari 1.5, my regular friends dont even play it at my house even tho its on freeplay, they just shake their heads and call me a freak...

i had the first mushi on operating a few years back, both at shows and in our arcade (rip), in all that time i dont think it grossed even $50 and we had alot of hardcore players come in (mainly bemani & sf3 people but still..), it was just too hard and futari 1.5 is harder.

McMasters · Post by **McMasters** » Sat May 10, 2008 7:42 pm

Wow, really? The replays of DS seem, i dunno, tame. Still you are right, maybe that's the 'DDP fan' in me talking.

About to check out Mushi, will be back later once I'm done with the store. As always, thanks for everything.

Stormwatch · Post by **Stormwatch** » Sat May 10, 2008 7:43 pm

Get an MVS with Blazing Star.

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Sat May 10, 2008 7:50 pm

McMasters wrote:, maybe that's the 'DDP fan' in me talking.

nothing wrong with that, i ran the shmups section in our arcade pureley out of love for the genre.. never made a dime in profit out of it, on the contrary actually

and dont be fooled by superplays, every game looks easy when you see an absolut emaster playing it, hell even futari Ultra looks manageable on the DVD, it is not.. not even slightly

PC Engine Fan X! · Post by **PC Engine Fan X!** » Sat May 10, 2008 7:52 pm

Stormwatch wrote:Get an MVS with Blazing Star.

Some of that good ol' Neo-Geo rendered sprite shmup love...pass it around. ^_~

PainAmplifier · Post by **PainAmplifier** » Sat May 10, 2008 8:48 pm

I have to poke my head in here and recommend Deathsmiles as well.

You're putting it in an anime store.

Think about that for a minute...since you are not an 'arcade', most of your 'walkins' are going to be a lot of 'casual' people at least and big anime fans at best. Putting most other schumps in there is going to be like trying to capture the 'wrestling' fan crowd. Sure, you may get some crossover with the DragonballZ readers and the few that are 'hardcore' schmup players...but not much else.

Deathsmiles however, has an almost 'Visual Novel' feel to it. Someone with no interest in schmups in general, but enjoys good anime art would be more likely to 'try' the game if only to see more of the artwork. And more likely to play it past 1C if only to see more of it.

Which takes us to the 'difficulty'. I have to strongly agree with sven666 here...Deathsmiles may look easy if you are just watching the replays of some hardcore schmup player...but watch them again but try to imagine the usual Bejeweled playing Naruto/Bleach reading anime fan try to make it past just 1/2 a level on 1C. Deathsmiles is still a 'bullet hell' schmup for all the accusations of 'easyness' and watching some of the bullet patterns subjectively tells me that your 'average' customer is not going to 'master' the game anytime soon.

The ability to select your starting stage is good appeal as well. If someone does 'try' the game, having more than one potential starting levels means that you have 3 chances to get a person to play a 'bit more', not just one. That is if they play once, but find it too hard there is still more of a chance that they may try the other two starting levels before 'giving up' on the game entirely.

As far as the 'not torrented' part goes, chances are no matter what schump you are getting, at some point it's going to be found online. And 'harcore' players are very likely to have full MAME type setups at home and will be far more likely to have any of the games you might get as well as having played them a lot already.

A 'casual' or 'walkin' type customer however, is unlikely to have a MAME setup at home, much less played those games to death. And the whole 'Gothic Loli' theme is far more likely to appeal to an anime fan that reads something like Bizenghast, than any of the DDP games would appeal to someone who reads Bleach.

From my perspective, putting Deathsmiles in an Anime shop, is like putting a Golf game in a Bar. The two just fit together. Whereas the DDP type schmups are more like putting a FPS in a 'Chucky Cheese' type establishment....the match between your potential 'customers' and the game just doesn't seem to work, even in theory.

McMasters · Post by **McMasters** » Sat May 10, 2008 9:13 pm

Pain, excellent points. This forum never ceases to amaze me in the quality of the posts.

ill6 · Post by **ill6** » Sat May 10, 2008 10:17 pm

Seems like a good argument to me.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Sun May 11, 2008 12:43 am

I guess this is a good time to ask if your cab does both vertical and horizontal.