6th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time! - Discussion thread

ForceDevice · Post by **ForceDevice** » Mon May 05, 2008 4:00 pm

Just so you know, spadgy... seeing the first half of your list put a big smile on my face, and it wasn't because of the Cave games.

Oh, and check the brackets you put on R-Type Final.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Mon May 05, 2008 10:47 pm

Roughly an hour to the end of the poll.

People, it's now or never:

Shoe sama

zaarock

louisg

lowemark

update your incomplete votes.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Mon May 05, 2008 11:48 pm

I love how none of the STGT titles get any votes.

The Coop · Post by **The Coop** » Mon May 05, 2008 11:58 pm

WHEW! Just in time...

The Coop - 3,050,540 - Stage 6 (periwinkle ship with pink polka dots)

Wait... OH SHI-!

Ceph · Post by **Ceph** » Tue May 06, 2008 12:38 am

Too bad, only 9 votes for Nexzr. Only a couple more and it would make it.

Enhasa · Post by **Enhasa** » Tue May 06, 2008 12:41 am

Ed Oscuro wrote:
Turrican wrote:while Enhasa removed Senko no Ronde from his list, -bridget- still has it.
This is bad?

Senko no Ronde is too awesome for this site to handle.

Turrican wrote:nimitz

zaarock

lowemark

I wonder why the people with partial lists are all Raizing fans.

GaijinPunch wrote:I love how none of the STGT titles get any votes.

Blazing Star
Armed Police Batrider
Dragon Blaze
Guwange
Darius Gaiden
Giga Wing

Seems like they get enough votes.

If you mean just from this last year, 2/5 seems like the kind of ratio you would expect actually.

Ceph · Post by **Ceph** » Tue May 06, 2008 1:05 am

Enhasa wrote:
Ed Oscuro wrote:
Turrican wrote:while Enhasa removed Senko no Ronde from his list, -bridget- still has it.
This is bad?
Senko no Ronde is too awesome for this site to handle.

Senko belongs here. When we hold a vote for "best 2D game", I'll let you know

PS.
You know, you could have changed your vote for Senko to Nexzr...

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Tue May 06, 2008 1:07 am

Ceph wrote:Too bad, only 9 votes for Nexzr. Only a couple more and it would make it.

Not a bad result at all. I wish my Salamander petition had been as successful.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Tue May 06, 2008 3:15 am

Well, I added mine a while ago.

Zhoul · Post by **Zhoul** » Tue May 06, 2008 5:13 am

Turrican wrote:
Ceph wrote:Too bad, only 9 votes for Nexzr. Only a couple more and it would make it.
Not a bad result at all. I wish my Salamander petition had been as successful.

After reading this thread, I now feel cooler than usual knowing that I voted for both.

Ceph · Post by **Ceph** » Tue May 06, 2008 9:01 am

Zhoul wrote:
Turrican wrote:
Ceph wrote:Too bad, only 9 votes for Nexzr. Only a couple more and it would make it.
Not a bad result at all. I wish my Salamander petition had been as successful.
After reading this thread, I now feel cooler than usual knowing that I voted for both.

Way to go!

Ed Oscuro wrote:Well, I added mine a while ago.

Alright, 10 votes vor Nexzr!

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Tue May 06, 2008 9:59 am

You voted for Kyukyoku Tiger, Ed? Why not Twin Cobra?

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Tue May 06, 2008 10:02 am

Polls closed, so:

Shatterhand wrote:And talking about the predictions for this year... if the voting goes anything like this year, I predict Dodonpachi finally losing its crown to Gradius V.

jp wrote:I predict Gradius V will be #1 this year. Followed by either DoDonPachi or Ikaruga.

I'd love to share your optimism but I have a bad omen, that DDP might lose its crown to another Cave release, either DDP-DOJ or Guwange. Battle Garegga also will continue to go up. Gradius V should definitely be above DDP, though.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Tue May 06, 2008 11:08 am

If you mean just from this last year, 2/5 seems like the kind of ratio you would expect actually.

I mean last year... the one with the noteably horrible selection... the same one that had the same game listed twice in one week, too. You'd expect for a tournament with that big of a turnout, there'd be more than 2 favorites.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Tue May 06, 2008 11:11 am

Gradius V should definitely be above DDP, though.

It is good, but you'd expect something that good out of Treasure, banked by Konami, far into the PS2's life. DDP is an underdog in just about every technical and financial aspect. Yet, it's still here. DDP's longevity is simply unmatched (and it is maybe halfway up the ladder in terms of my favorite Cave game). I don't think it should be number 1... but I don't think it's odd that it beats Gradius V.

Post by **Shatterhand** » Tue May 06, 2008 12:24 pm

Turrican wrote:Polls closed, so:

Shatterhand wrote:And talking about the predictions for this year... if the voting goes anything like this year, I predict Dodonpachi finally losing its crown to Gradius V.

jp wrote:I predict Gradius V will be #1 this year. Followed by either DoDonPachi or Ikaruga.
I'd love to share your optimism but I have a bad omen, that DDP might lose its crown to another Cave release, either DDP-DOJ or Guwange. Battle Garegga also will continue to go up. Gradius V should definitely be above DDP, though.

#1 DDP-DOJ #2 DDP.

This is going to be silly, but thats what it seems the final results. At least DDP is finally beaten.... by another DDP game.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Tue May 06, 2008 12:38 pm

GaijinPunch wrote:
Gradius V should definitely be above DDP, though.
It is good, but you'd expect something that good out of Treasure, banked by Konami, far into the PS2's life. DDP is an underdog in just about every technical and financial aspect. Yet, it's still here. DDP's longevity is simply unmatched (and it is maybe halfway up the ladder in terms of my favorite Cave game). I don't think it should be number 1... but I don't think it's odd that it beats Gradius V.

I like the game and I recognize the sense of wonder and awe when you first approach it. I meant to write: Gradius V should have gathered more votes than DDP. It was simply math, not merits.

Shatterhand wrote:#1 DDP-DOJ #2 DDP.

Gradius V has some ten or so votes more than DDP.

Post by **spadgy** » Tue May 06, 2008 12:43 pm

ForceDevice wrote:Just so you know, spadgy... seeing the first half of your list put a big smile on my face, and it wasn't because of the Cave games.

Oh, and check the brackets you put on R-Type Final.

Dah! I'm a dick. Stupid bloody bracket. Never changed it before the lock either.

What made you smile then? I can't work it out!

Post by **Shatterhand** » Tue May 06, 2008 12:45 pm

Turrican wrote:
GaijinPunch wrote:
Gradius V should definitely be above DDP, though.
It is good, but you'd expect something that good out of Treasure, banked by Konami, far into the PS2's life. DDP is an underdog in just about every technical and financial aspect. Yet, it's still here. DDP's longevity is simply unmatched (and it is maybe halfway up the ladder in terms of my favorite Cave game). I don't think it should be number 1... but I don't think it's odd that it beats Gradius V.
I like the game and I recognize the sense of wonder and awe when you first approach it. I meant to write: Gradius V should have gathered more votes than DDP. It was simply math, not merits.

Shatterhand wrote:#1 DDP-DOJ #2 DDP.
Gradius V has some ten or so votes more than DDP.

Really? I didn't count or did any math, I just took a quickly glance of the votes. From what I saw, Dodonpachi got a lot of votes with high numbers, while Gradius V got a lot of votes with lower numbers. Most people voting for both games seemed to rate DDP highter than GV most of the time.

Of course, IMO Aleste 2 should get the crown, but as this would never happen, I personally find Gradius V a lot better than DDP.

Enhasa · Post by **Enhasa** » Tue May 06, 2008 5:05 pm

GaijinPunch wrote:
If you mean just from this last year, 2/5 seems like the kind of ratio you would expect actually.
I mean last year... the one with the noteably horrible selection... the same one that had the same game listed twice in one week, too. You'd expect for a tournament with that big of a turnout, there'd be more than 2 favorites.

Well, I have a different perspective. For a tourney, I'd rather not have 5 popular games that I've already played before, since it's fun to learn how to score in new games. So I appreciate having these games that wouldn't sniff my top 25 list but are good for the sake of variety. I guess the difference is you consider games like Twinbee Yahho to be horrible. We managed to avoid the choices which I thought were horrible, maybe that's why I'm more positive.

cigsthecat · Post by **cigsthecat** » Tue May 06, 2008 5:51 pm

DOJ might finally beat DDP this year. My quick tally doesn't take into account the weight of a person's actual given score though, making it fairly useless. But the numbers are pretty close with DOJ out in first.

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Tue May 06, 2008 6:08 pm

cigsthecat wrote:DOJ might finally beat DDP this year. My quick tally doesn't take into account the weight of a person's actual given score though, making it fairly useless. But the numbers are pretty close with DOJ out in first.

That would only be fair. I see no other reason why DDP is always rated #1 but the fact that it's the best manic game available on mame = that everyone knows and has played.

ForceDevice · Post by **ForceDevice** » Tue May 06, 2008 6:22 pm

spadgy wrote:What made you smile then? I can't work it out!

Psyvariar 2 at second place... and the fact that your list looks a lot like mine, which means you have a great taste for shmups.

Post by **spadgy** » Tue May 06, 2008 7:24 pm

I did notice they were pretty similar!

Some of us have to have the taste to put Psyvariar 2 where it deserves to be!

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Wed May 07, 2008 12:25 am

Gradius V has amazing graphics, a fantastic soundtrack, and went a good way to fixing my biggest problem with Gradius games, checkpoints and being completely boned if you die once.

With that said, I find Dodonpachi to be much more enjoyable, which automatically makes it better in my mind. I like the general atmosphere more in DDP as well. Gradius V is also too damn long and has a very VERY anticlimatic last boss (I mean the thing with all the leg joints to kill, not the end of the last stage, which is even MORE anti-climatic). One last thing... Scoring system what?

Mortificator · Post by **Mortificator** » Wed May 07, 2008 12:39 am

Gaiden also eliminated the "1-life or bust" mechanic with its gauge edit. You should give it a try if you haven't. It's like Konami distilled the awesomeness out of the old-school arcade games, then added awesomeness.

nimitz · Post by **nimitz** » Wed May 07, 2008 1:58 am

Complaining about Gradius checkpoints is like complaining about DDP's hitbox...

Salamander 2 has no checkpoints and makes it much easier to recover from a death. Does that makes it better than Gradius 1-4? not at all.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Wed May 07, 2008 2:38 am

nimitz wrote:Complaining about Gradius checkpoints is like complaining about DDP's hitbox...

Well the complaint must have some validity, at least in the eyes of Treasure, don't you think?

I don't think the checkpoints are related to Salamander 2's overall quality. Salamander (AC) doesn't have checkpoint and it was an improvement over Gradius in every way possible (except Gradius bar absence).

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Wed May 07, 2008 3:13 am

nimitz wrote:Complaining about Gradius checkpoints is like complaining about DDP's hitbox.

I like the small hitbox in Dodonpachi, and hate the checkpoints in Gradius games, so this analogy doesn't make any sense to me at all.

And it still wouldn't change the fact that I find DDP to be a more enjoyable game than Gradius V. It's not even something I can describe or quantify properly. I just have more fun and get more of a rush from playing DDP.

I should indeed try Gradius Gaiden >_< It seems to be everyone's favorite, and it's basically the only one I haven't played (besides one or two of the many iterations of III I suppose).

Another reason to get a JPS2 I guess. Raiden DX being the other =)

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Wed May 07, 2008 3:45 am

nimitz wrote:Salamander 2 has no checkpoints and makes it much easier to recover from a death.

I like it when Kyukyoku Tiger sends me back far enough to pick up a powerup. Very helpful when you die at a boss.