Is the U.S. of A going places?

[Ed Oscuro]

Currently a popular question is whether the US is poised to take a beating in world influence, which is being compared (somewhat imprecisely) to Britain in the mid-20th century as it lost the colonies.

There are a few different key aspects to this, all covered in the latest Foreign Affairs periodical (May/June issue). In any case - your thoughts please.

[Pixel_Outlaw]

It's going down the crapper because many Americans are too concerned with every country but America. They need to take care of their own country first then look to aiding others.

[Super Laydock]

The US is living by an economic model in which they own MORE than a bit to the people they will compete with in the future. It´ll be the downfall of the US as an economic state.

China, India and the ever growing European Union (if they get their act together) will compete for world dominance in economic, opinionating and (increasingly so) military ways.. Possibly an alliance of islamic countries will get their cut too.

[Turrican]

I had this great Atlas made by Le Monde Diplomatique - it shows a map where each country is represented bigger or smaller depending on the weapons it has and the money it spends on armaments.

The USA was bigger than the rest of the world put together.

Nowadays it's common talk here that China and India are the emerging powers ("Cindia") and they will lead economics in the near future.

Well, it may be so, but the red button which triggers all the nukes out there in pure Dr. Strangelove fashion is still in that white building. So no, I don't think the US will be less influential - while the Chinese will rock the economy, they are too smart so I think they'll let american play "policemen of the world" for a long time.

[doodude]

...tnereffid yletelpmoc gnihtemos rof won dnA

[Ed Oscuro]

So no, I don't think the US will be less influential - while the Chinese will rock the economy, they are too smart so I think they'll let american play "policemen of the world" for a long time.

I don't know about those points - China is helping build America's economy. They also have their own means peddling influence about the world recently, which most of the rest of us don't much care for...see that shipment of arms to Zimbabwe (which was turned back).

After the Chinese embassy got bombed during the war in Kosovo (and Serbia), a Chinese official told somebody or other that China learned from U.S. policies and interventions...but how? Lately it seems their pronouncements have been tone-deaf, particularly with regards to religion (yes, I'm an atheist as they claim to be, but they hurt the cause of rationality - if rational living cannot win people to its side on its merits, it certainly shouldn't become a topic of rebellion) and interference in what they term their "internal affairs."

One hot topic lately has been the influence of those ubiquitous self-satisfying (although not so smug as they used to be, thankfully, just daft) Western proclamations against evildoers and dictators across the world. Take the UK's statements against Mugabe lately - Mugabe made his name fighting the UK for independence so it is thought those statements can play into his hands. On the other hand, the West shouldn't stop giving moral support to people in trouble.

[BulletMagnet]

For my money, the current administration in particular has acted with the short term far too dominantly in mind, and down the line it's going to come back and bite us. Whether that's already started to happen in any noteworthy form I don't know, but when you balloon the already-ridiculous national debt (while branding one's campaign as "the grownups are back", to boot), fall even further behind in terms of gaining energy independence and/or increased environmental friendliness, and consolidate even more power and wealth into an already-ridiculously wealthy and powerful few, and more to the point allowing (if not encouraging) the country's business leaders to do the same, it's not going to turn out well. Maybe the piper isn't paid until after you're already dead (which, I'd imagine, is what they're hoping for), but he's still paid.

[Super Laydock]

...tnereffid yletelpmoc gnihtemos rof won dnA

.dnim reveN. riS, dlrow dlo eht morf elpoep emos yb sklat ylno er´yehT

[Ed Oscuro]

For my money, the current administration in particular has acted with the short term far too dominantly in mind, and down the line it's going to come back and bite us.

Instead of thinking in terms of instant gratification vs. planning, what about an assumption that Western democracy, which works just fine here, translates into excellence in world affairs?

Another topic covered in the latest Foreign Affairs - what works here doesn't guarantee we know how to transplant it (it probably makes it harder since going in it was clear the leadership either didn't realize or didn't care to admit the difficulties on the road to Iraqi Democracy).

But I agree with your first point, actually, since it's part of the real problem.

Administrations are more pressed for time than before.

JFK was able to get everybody in place in his government in the span of some months - three months, I think - whereas Bush needed a year to get all the top jobs filled. Part of it's Congress, probably.

Of course, any Administration wants to make its mark on the world in that time. Hi-ho Silver!

Rest in peace, Gen. Akhboob.

[doodude]

...tnereffid yletelpmoc gnihtemos rof won dnA

.dnim reveN. riS, dlrow dlo eht morf elpoep emos yb sklat ylno er´yehT

Hah! er... I mean, !haH

[Turrican]

All I want after this empire is Bydo's. I waited long enough.

[Super Laydock]

All I want after this empire is Bydo's. I waited long enough.

It´s a long way. Some R-9 prototypes have been know to outpower and manouver F-22´s.

Maybe joining force with former enemies can make them counter this thread.
Migs and F-??´s should fly up together and save this world.

[Specineff]

You gotta remember to put Tyrannousaurs to pilot those R-9s, too.

[The n00b]

Sure we're going places. We are going straight to hell in a hand basket because so few Americans well actually give a crap about America. Everybody just "wants their piece" and fuck everyone else.

You see this in our politics where people only care about sticking it the other party even if the country suffers as a result. You see this in our president who only cares about finding new ways to make his corrupt cronies rich. Finally, you see this in the Iraq war where contractors run the place and companies only care about securing their piece of Iraq. God forbid anyone think about actually winning the war...

I also don't buy that the EU actually has a future. Doesn't Europe as a whole have an extremely small birth rate? That doesn't look too good for that place's future. Of course immigration is the only thing saving the US from this fate so maybe they should consider that.

[Super Laydock]

I also don't buy that the EU actually has a future. Doesn't Europe as a whole have an extremely small birth rate? That doesn't look too good for that place's future. Of course immigration is the only thing saving the US from this fate so maybe they should consider that.

EU has more immigration than the US by far at this point.
It does point to a grim future (for Europe) in this case though.

[Fenrir]

EU is nothing more than an americanized monster. The US have completed their process of influencing the world that gave them birth.

The future is all China and India. We are destined to fall to both.

[The n00b]

EU is nothing more than an americanized monster. The US have completed their process of influencing the world that gave them birth.

The future is all China and India. We are destined to fall to both.

China has reigned supreme for most of human history and India has always been a highly advanced society soooo I guess it's back to business as usual.

[Twiddle]

I for one welcome our new extraterrestrial alien overlords

[The Coop]

WE'RE GOIN' TO DISNEY WORLD!

[neorichieb1971]

Its not influence of economy you should be worried about. In the next 50 years no amount of money will suffice. Money isn't solving any of the worlds problems, its making them. Tell that to a politician or congress.

Money will do for now, as long as its a case of whom is on top, who is 2nd and 3rd etc etc. Mark my words, soon enough money won't buy you a pot to piss in.

Right now I vote for a moon base, a lifetimes worth of pot noodles and a big freaking telescope and I'll watch it all happen with a big smile on my face.

I bet whilst its all happening, the most important discussion is whether USA is losing ground or China is coming up in the world. Geez.

[Ed Oscuro]

I did ask about influence. Having the distribution of influence become more equitable would be a fall in influence, but it is not the same thing as having your economy fail or lose your territorial integrity, etc., two things I don't see happening.

[Twiddle]

I also don't buy that the EU actually has a future. Doesn't Europe as a whole have an extremely small birth rate? That doesn't look too good for that place's future. Of course immigration is the only thing saving the US from this fate so maybe they should consider that.

EU has more immigration than the US by far at this point.
It does point to a grim future (for Europe) in this case though.

Yes, the shade of the average European will become more brown. Darker future indeed.

[Ed Oscuro]

I bet whilst its all happening, the most important discussion is whether USA is losing ground or China is coming up in the world. Geez.

Haha, yeah, I hear ya...just addressed this point, but I'm thinking maybe I asked the wrong question since I'm getting mostly "the U.S. is going to crap" answers anyway.

[JoshF]

Darker future indeed.

Family Values types will resist by birthing white Christian soldiers at a large rate.

[BulletMagnet]

Instead of thinking in terms of instant gratification vs. planning, what about an assumption that Western democracy, which works just fine here, translates into excellence in world affairs?

I doubt that many who are so eager to "export democracy" are particularly concerned with how well it "works" once it's set up someplace else - as long as it maintains an effective enough presence to get us access to the the resources of said place (usually for a steal), pretty much anything beyond that tends to take second place.

JFK was able to get everybody in place in his government in the span of some months - three months, I think - whereas Bush needed a year to get all the top jobs filled. Part of it's Congress, probably.

Considering that Bush had a rubber-stamp Congress for most of his presidency, color me hesitant to buy this...off to the side, however "rushed" he is, IIRC he still holds the record for most vacation days taken of any president in the country's history (previously held by Nixon).

Everybody just "wants their piece" and fuck everyone else.

The thing to remember is that certain groups will argue till their last breath (or, preferably, yours) that the above "philosophy" is not only the bedrock upon which the country is founded (and any other attitude amounts to treason in some form or another), but the only "moral" way to live one's life. When "schools of thought" like these are given a prominent place at the proverbial table, it becomes clear just how far we have to go as a people.

[t0yrobo]

Yeah the countries going to crap, but I don't think it's amount of influence will change anytime soon. It's still a huge place with tons of people who love to buy useless crap and a bunch of international companies based there. I think mostly it will depend on if all the US based companies have the sense to adapt to changing markets, China and India are a big deal and if they don't adapt they'll be screwed as wil the rest of the country.

edit- I should add that the governments love for short term solutions isn't helping things either. I'll take my $300 when it shows up this month but it's still a freaking stupid idea.

[Ed Oscuro]

Instead of thinking in terms of instant gratification vs. planning, what about an assumption that Western democracy, which works just fine here, translates into excellence in world affairs?

I doubt that many who are so eager to "export democracy" are particularly concerned with how well it "works" once it's set up someplace else - as long as it maintains an effective enough presence to get us access to the the resources of said place (usually for a steal), pretty much anything beyond that tends to take second place.

Having a broken nation doesn't really help our interests in the short or long term. What's more, there's a discussion about whether the Iraqis are going to start using their oil revenues to rebuild their country; up to this point we've been footing the bill.

Of course we're all incensed about Haliburton and so on, but a lot of these cases are petty corruption by individual contractors. It's sure annoying nobody has pinned anything big on people in or around the current Administration, certainly some corruption originated at higher levels. But to say the whole exercise was started as an excuse for stealing...that underestimates the strength of the neo-con movement.

JFK was able to get everybody in place in his government in the span of some months - three months, I think - whereas Bush needed a year to get all the top jobs filled. Part of it's Congress, probably.

Considering that Bush had a rubber-stamp Congress for most of his presidency, color me hesitant to buy this...off to the side, however "rushed" he is, IIRC he still holds the record for most vacation days taken of any president in the country's history (previously held by Nixon).

I think we all know Bush didn't run the country's affairs day-to-day like many other Presidents. In any case, I cite that as evidence of a trend which affected previous Presidents as well.

[xorthen]

The problem with this country is that the people calling the shots are fucking everything up. They are doing it intentionally too. Bush isn't the person in charge of anything, he's just a front man. The real power is hidden from the public view.

[neorichieb1971]

The fact is technology everywhere else is catching up with Japan and the USA. Most economies in the world don't need to pay their workers anywhere near a satisfactory American wage (Philippenes for Example).

So whilst the end user of everything pushes a button, so do they. They buy a ton of this technology and use up fuel reserves getting it working and before you know it, everyone is a USA.

It has nothing to do with politics. You can see all over the world high rise buildings going up. This is a statement of power and wealth. America better get used to it.

[GaijinPunch]

If China doesn't clean up their act they're going to be just as unpopular as America.