Ketsui X and Daioujou Black Label X - Ports for Xbox 360

Etrian · Post by **Etrian** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:47 am

bcass wrote:Judging from the screens we've seen of these conversions so far, they are presented in their native resolution (which is why the play screen looks so small). The main issue (for people not using CRTs) is whether they will put a scanlines option in without any other filters (or filters you can turn off) to maintain the low-res look.

No 360 game has included this, and I own all the shmups for 360.. so, I doubt it.

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:06 am

yeah i doubt it also, the only ones to do this have been the sega ages discs. those discs handled by sega now are the perfect exp for porting even for next gen.

bcass · Post by **bcass** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:26 am

You mean no 360 games have included scanlines options, don't you? Because Castlevania has options to turn the filter off and it looks a hundred times better. Scanlines options arent an issue for me as I use a CRT with my 360 anyway.

Etrian · Post by **Etrian** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:09 pm

bcass wrote:You mean no 360 games have included scanlines options, don't you? Because Castlevania has options to turn the filter off and it looks a hundred times better. Scanlines options arent an issue for me as I use a CRT with my 360 anyway.

Castlevania was on the XBLA.. I'm talking about retail games. Most people just expect others to have HDTVs or LCD monitors these days.

Also, filters turned off look like crap on non-CRTs.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 1:08 am

bcass wrote:You mean no 360 games have included scanlines options, don't you? Because Castlevania has options to turn the filter off and it looks a hundred times better. Scanlines options arent an issue for me as I use a CRT with my 360 anyway.

Depends on your idea of "issue". Your CRT will not give you proper scanlines from a 360 b/c it doesn't support 240p (at all). On that note, Ketsui & DOJ:BL will not be in their native resolution. They will be in their native aspect ratio though.

Also, filters turned off look like crap on non-CRTs.

This is why you play old games on proper CRTs, and new games on HDTVs. I doubt there will ever be a catch all. Right now, the best monitor is a multi-sync, but you still need something newer for your HDTV games.

bcass · Post by **bcass** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:02 am

GaijinPunch wrote:Depends on your idea of "issue". Your CRT will not give you proper scanlines from a 360 b/c it doesn't support 240p (at all). On that note, Ketsui & DOJ:BL will not be in their native resolution. They will be in their native aspect ratio though.

Like I said, it isn't an issue for me. As you know, any low-res game looks far superior on a CRT than on any plasma/LCD, regardless of scanlines.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:14 am

I know that they still look like fuzzy turds compared to the original thought. Interlacing is no less evil than line doubling in my book.

bcass · Post by **bcass** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:38 am

You're entitled to your opinion, but it isn't going to stop me (and probably the vast majority) enjoying Ketsui when it get's released this year. For me, extras like hi-score saving, replays, leaderboards, a $50 price tag, and who knows what other extras, mean a hell of a lot more to me than a slight graphical difference (which will probably be as negligible as is humanely possible given that we have the word of the conversions producer promising a 'perfect' conversion).

Etrian · Post by **Etrian** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:21 am

I like my JP 360 but I hope they don't mess up with Ketsui like they did with Raiden Fighters. Sigh..

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:31 am

the 360 ports will be able to be put out at 480p. I can knock that back down to 240p via a vga cable/extron then have it on a tate'ed low res rgb monitor.

true I'll have to plug a cord in everytime and change the systems res to 480p. but... it will be all right for the price.

I think line doubling works out well when it's handled with the fake scanlines working... just making every other line black ect.

we go on circles with this though over and over. i like it scan-lined for sure, others don't. i say we should have the option... so no one loses.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:57 am

You're entitled to your opinion, but it isn't going to stop me (and probably the vast majority) enjoying Ketsui when it get's released this year.

Well, nobody was talking about enjoyment and whatnot. If I have a 360 then (possible) I'll probably buy one too, and might enjoy it. High score saving does little for me. I'd rather have the arcade extras, honestly. And "slight graphical difference" is very subjective. If you're playing on S-Video on an old CRT, then you're right... the difference is probably "slight". Arcade monitor? Prepare to cry.

given that we have the word of the conversions producer promising a 'perfect' conversion).

Well, we don't have him saying that really. He's promised to do his best to make them perfect. That's a far cry from a perfect port. The fact that they're putting in "updated graphics" already says they've either got no clue, or they're hoping people that have no clue will not realize that laying a filter on a sprite is pretty nasty.

bcass · Post by **bcass** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:27 am

Well, we did ask for a filter option, so let's hope they listen. We got a reply from the producer, so I'd imagine they are listening. If it all turns to shit, then we know not to support 5pb again. And as for video connections, I'm not talking about s-video, I'm from Europe, I always use RGB scart. I've been playing coin-ops since the mid 80s, and I can promise you that I notice very little difference (if any) in graphics between playing at home on my CRT via RGB and what I see in the arcades.

Also, what extras are in the PCB version of Ketsui that won't be in the 360 version?

Etrian · Post by **Etrian** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:36 am

It sounds like GaijinPunch is really trying his hardest to justify his PCB purchase. Haha.

At least the 360 version opens up the game to a wider audience. That's all I care about at the moment.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:11 pm

Also, what extras are in the PCB version of Ketsui that won't be in the 360 version?

The most important ones:
-240p
-Absence of any other port deficiencies (although we don't know what these will be)

It sounds like GaijinPunch is really trying his hardest to justify his PCB purchase. Haha.

32,000 yen for the board... I've easily gotten my money's worth. My Black Label kit I paid far more for, but I don't need justification. It's wicked, and that's good enough for me.

At least the 360 version opens up the game to a wider audience.

Yep, and I've said as much somewhere in one of these related threads.

moozooh · Post by **moozooh** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:21 pm

GaijinPunch wrote:
Also, what extras are in the PCB version of Ketsui that won't be in the 360 version?
The most important ones:
-240p
-Absence of any other port deficiencies (although we don't know what these will be)

Lol, GP, you're the first person I've met who's ever called absence of something an extra. :D

Caveman · Post by **Caveman** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:30 pm

Etrian wrote:It sounds like GaijinPunch is really trying his hardest to justify his PCB purchase.

I'ts no fun waiting for a port that may never surface though right?
GP is,like many others here, a purist at heart.
Obviously though,the more attractive/affordable price tag may introduce the masses to our niche obsession.Time will tell whether thats good or bad?

Etrian · Post by **Etrian** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:52 pm

Caveman wrote:
Etrian wrote:It sounds like GaijinPunch is really trying his hardest to justify his PCB purchase.
I'ts no fun waiting for a port that may never surface though right?
GP is,like many others here, a purist at heart.
Obviously though,the more attractive/affordable price tag may introduce the masses to our niche obsession.Time will tell whether thats good or bad?

What do you mean "never" surface? It's already announced for sometime in 2008.

I'd buy a Ketsui PCB, sure, but NO ONE will sell me a Supergun. I'll just wait for the 360 port, since it's cheaper and will no doubt come with extras.

Caveman · Post by **Caveman** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:21 pm

Etrian wrote: What do you mean "never" surface? It's already announced for sometime in 2008.

I mean only by this,that GP never imagined that a port would become available when he bought the pcb.
Such actions don't need justification & should be aplauded.
Imo he just happens to own THE version of the game we wish we all had.

Gwyrgyn Blood · Post by **Gwyrgyn Blood** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:22 pm

Etrian wrote: I'd buy a Ketsui PCB, sure, but NO ONE will sell me a Supergun. I'll just wait for the 360 port, since it's cheaper and will no doubt come with extras.

thchardcore has been trying to sell one for a while now.

iatneH · Post by **iatneH** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:26 pm

Etrian wrote:I'd buy a Ketsui PCB, sure, but NO ONE will sell me a Supergun.

Build your own! It's fun

If you know how to cut and strip wires, and solder them to things, you already have all the technical skill to do it. And it is simple enough that the experience you gain can lead to doing all sorts of other fun mods.

There's a supergun you can build yourself. Just add power supply, NeoGeo controllers, and a SCART RGB television which I think you have in NZ.

seiatsu · Post by **seiatsu** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:27 pm

Well, I'd consider myself a purist in (almost) everything I do. However, as much as I want to play Ketsui, I can't see shelling out for a board of a game that I've only seen in videos.

On the flip side, if I like the game enough, I could see buying the board after I've gotten my hands on the 360 version (assuming I like it enough)

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:37 pm

that GP never imagined that a port would become available when he bought the pcb.

I bought the PCB very close to the low as well. Ports were the last thing I was thinking of then. I paid good cash for a Mushi kit ($1000 or so) well after the PS2 port came out.

I'd buy a Ketsui PCB, sure, but NO ONE will sell me a Supergun.

I resell Sigma's, although they are painfully expensive to ship.

Etrian · Post by **Etrian** » Thu May 01, 2008 12:01 am

GaijinPunch wrote:I resell Sigma's, although they are painfully expensive to ship.

What prices are we talking here?

iatneH wrote:Build your own

I'm dumb and can't build my own. Seriously, I've never even touched a soldering iron in my life.

Gwyrgyn Blood wrote:thchardcore has been trying to sell one for a while now.

I've sent him a PM.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Thu May 01, 2008 12:26 am

Etrian wrote:
GaijinPunch wrote:I resell Sigma's, although they are painfully expensive to ship.
What prices are we talking here?

Well, the exchange rate is not on your side these days. You're looking at about $500 all in (shipped to your door) for an AV7000, 9000TB, controller, and Jamma Harness. If you want S-Video or RGB cables, they are extra (about $25 & $35 respectively, last I checked).

I'm dumb and can't build my own. Seriously, I've never even touched a soldering iron in my life.

Gotta start somewhere (although on a supergun is probably not the best place to do so). Solder is banned from my house, so I have to pay people to do it. I love Japanese hypochondria mixed with paranoia. My wife is worse than me on my worst acid trip (and that was bad).

iatneH · Post by **iatneH** » Thu May 01, 2008 12:28 am

Etrian wrote:
iatneH wrote:Build your own
I'm dumb and can't build my own. Seriously, I've never even touched a soldering iron in my life.

Hope I don't sound condescending since that's not my intention. Never touched a soldering iron? No better time to go touch one (on the handle). IMO, contrary to what GaijinPunch says, supergun is a great way to learn soldering since in most cases it does not require any precision. Just strip a bunch of wires and practice getting a bit of solder on the end just to get a feel for how molten solder behaves. Once you've done that for a while, you probably have enough stripped wires to build a supergun! Yeah it might look like that piece of crap I posted a picture of, but it will work.

My parents sent me to an electronics summer community class when I was 10 years old to keep me from sitting at home playing video games all day for a few weeks, that's when I learned to handle an iron and it was life-changing for me.

It will cost a few dollars in overhead to get started though. My current setup is a $7 iron and a $7 stand, a wad of toilet paper soaked in water and/or a brass scrub ($1 for a pack of 8 at the dollar store), a $5 spool of solder which has lasted me a couple of years now, and a couple of feet of 15-core data cable at $0.30/ft.
The tools and materials will need to be replaced occasionally, but what you get is a useful skill that will last a lifetime.

Maybe I'll put a little soldering lesson on Youtube sometime, you won't believe how easy it is

I really hope you'll give it a try! But! This is not related to Ketsui and DOJ:BL for X360. I will start a thread on Hardware if I get around to doing this.

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Thu May 01, 2008 5:23 pm

GaijinPunch wrote: Gotta start somewhere (although on a supergun is probably not the best place to do so). Solder is banned from my house, so I have to pay people to do it. I love Japanese hypochondria mixed with paranoia. My wife is worse than me on my worst acid trip (and that was bad).

can't you just get some lead-free solder? or just tell her it's lead-free

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Thu May 01, 2008 10:57 pm

jpj wrote: can't you just get some lead-free solder? or just tell her it's lead-free

Lead-free solder sucks. While that is a concern, it's the little balls of solder one might leave behind that she's more worried about. Little kids try to eat everything.

Etrian · Post by **Etrian** » Thu May 01, 2008 11:20 pm

Apparently thchardcore doesn't want to ship internationally, so I'm still missing a Supergun. I would have purchased his, too.

More incentive to wait for the 360 release, I suppose.

bcass · Post by **bcass** » Fri May 02, 2008 12:03 am

GaijinPunch has practically offered to get one for you. Why don't you ask him nicely?

Etrian · Post by **Etrian** » Fri May 02, 2008 12:18 am

bcass wrote:GaijinPunch has practically offered to get one for you. Why don't you ask him nicely?

$500 for a professionally made Supergun is a little steep considering that I'm only wanting it to play Mushihimesama Futari and Ketsui on.. something lke a Pistol Supergun would be ideal.

I'm only looking at a maximum of $300 to 350. If I blow everything on a Supergun, I won't have enough for PCBs!