Thunder Force deathmatch

[jp]

Getting more than three bullet patterns out before destruction = terribly drawn-out

By that definition (if played properly) not a single boss in Radiant Silvergun is drawn out and (if played properly) hardly any of the TFIV bosses are drawn (giant crab boss takes awhile, but its a great fight anyways so I never cared).


So, I agree.

[JoshF]

I was thinking about TFV.

[jp]

Oh, well there I certainly agree. But you have to keep in mind that TFV is designed almost exclusively around Free Range, so... while the boss fights in TFV take a decade or so and are an abomination when not using Free Range, they tend to last less than 30 seconds when you do use Free Range.

Which, IMO, is a case of horrible gameplay balancing.

[JoshF]

"The better you are the less obstacles you have to face" is indeed backwards.

[Herr Schatten]

the boss fights in TFV take a decade or so and are an abomination when not using Free Range

It's quite the same in TFIV if you don't use the proper weapon for each boss. (If you lost it somehow during the stage, for example.)

Horrible gameplay balancing, indeed. I'd have preferred it if the difference wasn't as huge. Same in TFV, actually. TFIII, on the other hand, got that part quite right.

[jp]

the boss fights in TFV take a decade or so and are an abomination when not using Free Range

It's quite the same in TFIV if you don't use the proper weapon for each boss. (If you lost it somehow during the stage, for example.)

Well, sort of. I generally myself switching the weapons up during the boss fights in TVIV. And at least the bosses require DIFFERENT weapons and DIFFERENT strategies, unlike TFV which is just "Free Range!"

[StoofooEsq]

My turn to bitch about certain weapons in the Thunder Force series.

Starting with Thunder Force III. Like others have said, the game is one of the easier games in the series, and that's partly due to the Sever being present. The weapon delivers plenty of damage, has a fast rate of fire, and doesn't even need Claw to be effective. Clearly it makes a great boss-killer, which isn't saying much when many the game's bosses are for the most part, static.

Sever did have two small but considerable weaknesses: the coverage is limited compared to weapons like Wave and Hunter, and it obviously couldn't do anything to enemies behind you. So while it was able to smack down bosses very quickly and destroy enemies that weren't covered by terrain, there was still a sort of balance to it.

Moving onto Thunder Force V, count me as another member of the "Fuck Free Range" crew. Whereas Saber was the boss-killer in TF3 that could fare well in most situations, Free Range is an everything-killer. An already strong weapon with power that increases with proximity to your targets, nearly instant firing speed, coverage in all directions, and it even fires through the environment. Nothing stands a chance against its Over Weapon, not even bosses. The weapon isn't balanced in the least, but that isn't what bothers me the most about it.

Having to use one picked-up weapon out of five total weapons to maximize the multiplier for variable point opportunities (bulkier enemies, mid-bosses, bosses) makes the game dead boring to play for score, especially when the weapon in question doesn't take much effort to use effectively. It takes away from the skill and fun switching around your armament to properly suit the current situation you're in, something that was a part of the series from TF2 onward. I'd would've rather played a Thunder Force 5 without Free Range or the scoring system that catered to it.

[Turrican]

[FR] makes the game dead boring to play for score, especially when the weapon in question doesn't take much effort to use effectively.

Well, you need to learn how to prevent some enemies waves for a better placement thus getting [x16]. And you also need to get really close to bosses weakspots. Admittedly not a great effort, but still better than switching to Hunter and just hold the fire button pressed.

I'd would've rather played a Thunder Force 5 without Free Range or the scoring system that catered to it.

It's not that bosses or stages are impossible without FR, so you can still play it forgetting about the score.

[jp]

[FR] makes the game dead boring to play for score, especially when the weapon in question doesn't take much effort to use effectively.

Well, you need to learn how to prevent some enemies waves for a better placement thus getting [x16]. And you also need to get really close to bosses weakspots. Admittedly not a great effort, but still better than switching to Hunter and just hold the fire button pressed.

What boss in TFIII or IV allows you to just use Hunter? They all have weak points that Hunter will more than likely never hit, or if it does, it will only be a few bullets and will be minimal damage.

I'd would've rather played a Thunder Force 5 without Free Range or the scoring system that catered to it.

It's not that bosses or stages are impossible without FR, so you can still play it forgetting about the score.

The problem is the boss fights actually take far TOO LONG when you DON'T use FR, since they were all designed with Free Range use in mind to begin with.

[Turrican]

[FR] makes the game dead boring to play for score, especially when the weapon in question doesn't take much effort to use effectively.

Well, you need to learn how to prevent some enemies waves for a better placement thus getting [x16]. And you also need to get really close to bosses weakspots. Admittedly not a great effort, but still better than switching to Hunter and just hold the fire button pressed.

What boss in TFIII or IV allows you to just use Hunter? They all have weak points that Hunter will more than likely never hit, or if it does, it will only be a few bullets and will be minimal damage.

I was referring to in-stage use, actually. And the criticism applies to TFV hunter as well.

I'd would've rather played a Thunder Force 5 without Free Range or the scoring system that catered to it.

It's not that bosses or stages are impossible without FR, so you can still play it forgetting about the score.

The problem is the boss fights actually take far TOO LONG when you DON'T use FR, since they were all designed with Free Range use in mind to begin with.

What now? They don't last enough if you use FR, and too long if you don't? You're being especially picky. Actually they manage to endure some half-minutes or so in Master iirc.
Put it this way, at least with FR they gave you a shortcut, whereas in maniac TF4 you're bound to spend the whole afternoon on it.

[Rob]

What now? They don't last enough if you use FR, and too long if you don't? You're being especially picky.

Agreed with jp and I've seen others make the same complaint. Their life either zips by in a few seconds with freerange or it crawls. There's a certain amount of time that's perfect for a boss battle, they missed it in two directions.

[jp]

What now? They don't last enough if you use FR, and too long if you don't? You're being especially picky.

Agreed with jp and I've seen others make the same complaint. Their life either zips by in a few seconds with freerange or it crawls. There's a certain amount of time that's perfect for a boss battle, they missed it in two directions.

Exactly. TFIV hit the sweet spot for me when it comes to boss length. TFV was just way off in both directions. Also, as I've said, the bosses in TFV were designed to be killed in seconds by Free Range anyways, so the actual outright battle against them is oft poorly designed.

And really, TFIII pulled it off better as well. Sure sure, the Gargoyle goes down in no time, but the fish boss and the giant ship that shoots the ships at you (boss of the TFII level in TFAC, also the boss of... I want to say the underground level in TFIII) both put up a solid little fight. So, yeah, it has its quick kills, but several of the bosses DO put up a decent little fight and SOME dodging is involved.

[it290]

What boss in TFIII or IV allows you to just use Hunter? They all have weak points that Hunter will more than likely never hit, or if it does, it will only be a few bullets and will be minimal damage.

I just played through TFIII this afternoon. You can use Hunter on pretty much all of the bosses, although in most cases it's much more efficient to use Saber. For several of the bosses - the twin mining machines, the batteship core, and the Orn Base sub-bosses at least - Hunter is the most efficient weapon.

TFIV, not so much.

[jp]

I always found Wave to be better for the battleship core.

For the twin mining machines I just used the side shot.

[StoofooEsq]

Yeah, the Search Radars on Twin Vulcan are just begging to be hit with Fire (?).

On Cerberus' core I used the same weapon, just because of the enclosed space and how quickly it would go down anyway.

[gameoverDude]

Best thing to happen to TF stage designs was opening them up with free vertical scrolling. TF5 scaled back to boxed in TF3 designs and its 10 second bosses + a broken weapon/scoring system meant there was nothing to the stages. It lacked every improvement in TF4 and felt like a TF3 remake with nasty 3D graphics and foul synth-metal versions of classic TF songs.

Thunder Force V should've been done in 2D graphics. 3D graphics should've been saved for the Dreamcast sequel which we sadly didn't get.

"Duel of Top" (based on the TFIV intro BGM) from the Rynex boss battle actually rocks. Hyakutaro Tsukumo's BGM for the game doesn't fail to impress.

If you lose your Free Range in TFV, you are fucked if you're in the final couple stages of the game. If it's against the final boss- he'll either get away or take you down while trying.

Gargoylediver (Strite boss) is the best example for what I'm trying to say: His weak spot, the blue orb, is located right between his armor and his tail. Twin Shots can easily pass that small gap, but the Blade seems too big to pass.

I agree, Blade doesn't seem to hit that spot at all. Hunter that bastard to death (just don't choose Strite first).

[LSU]

As has been said, TFIII is real easy to 1CC.
TFV I found tougher, but not too difficult to 1CC.
TFIV I haven't yet completed...

For me this series is another case of, "I love all of them, but can't vote for all three." (Never got really grabbed by II.) So III had to go.

I personally rate TFV as being just ever so slightly better than IV, simply because I feel it is more ambitious, and also is a little more exciting and fun (which probably means simpler) to play. The in-game graphics do look quite rough around the edges compared to the beautiful 2D graphics of IV - I really can't remember ever being more impressed by a Megadrive game's visuals than seeing that for the first time. But I really enjoy the 'grandness' and epic scope of V, and the soundtrack is genuinely adrenaline-fuelling and suits the pace of the game perfectly. I never really had a problem with the weapon selection, but do agree that it's a little more unbalanced than in IV. It does feel a little different to play, kind of 'the odd one out' of the series but that's probably just mostly due to the jump to 3D graphics?

And since it shares so much in common - Hyper Duel is probably hovering just barely outside my top 25... If we could vote for 50 games, it'd definitely be in there.

[Herr Schatten]

If you lose your Free Range in TFV, you are fucked if you're in the final couple stages of the game. If it's against the final boss- he'll either get away or take you down while trying.

No. I've completed the game once using hunter almost exclusively. I didn't even have my free range weapon anymore when facing the last boss and he didn't get away, although it was a really close call.

People are so fixated on abusing free range that they tend to forget that there are other useful weapons in the game, too.

[jp]

People are so fixated on abusing free range that they tend to forget that there are other useful weapons in the game, too.

I don't know if I would call them "useful" per se. They're there... and while they'll do just fine during the levels, boss fights do become a monumental pain in the ass when you cast FR aside.