Westerners vs Japanese Arcades...

[sfried]

There's an excellent post on SRK about Japanese vs Western arcades. I will have to dig it up and link to it from here.

The basic gist of it is this:

The west has lots of space. Large houses are a commodity, and owning consoles is a convenient thing. Similarly traveling to a friends house to play games is socially acceptable, as well as convenient for parking (and young westerners generally own more cars per capita).

Japan on the other hand doesn't have a lot of space. Small houses and apartments are common, and inviting your mates around for a gaming session is not only difficult, but considered a little socially rude (particularly if you live with flatmates or family). Traveling to city centers is easier for most who don't own cars, as they can take trains and busses far more easily than finding transport out to the 'burbs. Arcades are still social meeting places for friends, as opposed to just playing with nameless strangers.

Compare and contrast the two social aspects of each culture, and it's easy to see why arcades survive in one and flounder in the other.

I like how people tend to pigeonhole Japan as "the East". Are arcades popular around Korea and China as well?

This is a very awkward comparison based on a very narrow selection of examples for "East" and "West."

[elvis]

I like how people tend to pigeonhole Japan as "the East". Are arcades popular around Korea and China as well?

This is a very awkward comparison based on a very narrow selection of examples for "East" and "West."

I didn't pigeonhole Japan as "East", and nor did the original SRK poster. If anything, I pigeonholed Europe, America and Australia as "West".

I quite purposefully did not use the word "East". Search my post for the word, and you will find it missing. Similarly the title of this thread is "Westerners vs Japanese Arcades...", which is what I comment on above.

Nor did I mention China, Korea, Singapore, or any of the other major Asian countries for the simple reason that I know absolutely nothing about them (as opposed to Japan, where I have actually spent some time and observed the cultural differences to my own first hand).

[Bonemaster969]

You're right, maybe we should also start speaking japanese and eating only japanese food and wearing japanese clothing. You should probably also stop watching TV and movies unless they are japanese. This will definitely help you play better. I also stopped eating chips and switched to pocky, and now I have gotten to stage three in Gradius IV.

しました。アメリカの料理はおいしくないです。ポッキーやカルピスが大好きですよ。そして、アメリカのテレビは悪いですから、今日はギャラクシーエンジェルが見ました。

But seriously guys, I seem to be the biggest weeaboo here, and even I think "shmup" is a cool word. It confuses a lot of people around me, but once I explain it, they know. I've never heard anyone refer to a shmup as an "STG", which sounds even stupider cause it's a lousy acronym. Since when do letters in the middle of a word form an acronym? I guess you guys also cry when you see concaved buttons on a cabinet, don't you?

shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup
shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup
shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup
shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup
shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup
shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup
shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup
shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup
shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup
shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup
shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup
shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup
shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup
shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup
shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup
shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup shmup

YEAH! You tell em! I like this man's thinking!

[elvis]

I really like the word "shmup". It was in use within my group of friends long before the revolution that was the Internet.

And in Australia, using the word "schmuk" is considered very American, and by virtue of that, nobody would be caught dead doing so.

[DEL]

elvis quoted;

There's an excellent post on SRK about Japanese vs Western arcades. I will have to dig it up and link to it from here.

The basic gist of it is this:

The west has lots of space. Large houses are a commodity, and owning consoles is a convenient thing. Similarly traveling to a friends house to play games is socially acceptable, as well as convenient for parking (and young westerners generally own more cars per capita).

Japan on the other hand doesn't have a lot of space. Small houses and apartments are common, and inviting your mates around for a gaming session is not only difficult, but considered a little socially rude (particularly if you live with flatmates or family). Traveling to city centers is easier for most who don't own cars, as they can take trains and busses far more easily than finding transport out to the 'burbs. Arcades are still social meeting places for friends, as opposed to just playing with nameless strangers.

Compare and contrast the two social aspects of each culture, and it's easy to see why arcades survive in one and flounder in the other.

That must be true, but I don't think its the reason why arcades with skill-based games still survive in the East. I think that western arcade owners simply lost sight of what brought players to the arcades in the first place (14+ years ago).

Arcades are still social meeting places for friends, as opposed to just playing with nameless strangers.

Like I mentioned earlier, this has never been the case in the London arcades. There's always been a community of players who meet up with each other in our arcades.

[Necronopticous]

I like "shmup;" an obscure, niche name for an equally obscure, niche genre of games.

[Klatrymadon]

I've just remembered I usually call them "shoot-yer-mums" in conversation, despite having no proclivity for matricide.

I like "shmup;" an obscure, niche name for an equally obscure, niche genre of games.

But this was the biggest genre for years, mate. At the risk of sounding like a stuffy ol' spod, I think there should be words in the wider (or 'casual') gaming vocabulary that at least serve as reminders of its historical importance.

[FIL]

Forced scrolling third person two dimensional aerial pugilism gameplay experience.

[MX7]

Forced scrolling third person two dimensional aerial pugilism gameplay experience.

Thread.

[malik11]

Forced scrolling third person two dimensional aerial pugilism gameplay experience.

Yes, FSTPTDAPGEs.

Personally, I would say the most seemingly arbitrary term would be good enough for widespread Western understanding, or you could go REALLY specific, like the above. But if you reduce the ability to dissect the meaning of a term, there is less potential for extension of reference to other things.
Example: When you use the term "role-playing game" on an Anglophone who doesn't play games, they can easily make the extension to virtually any type of game, because you play a role in lots of them. On the other hand, since Roman letters (and, not to mention, the English language) are not natively Japanese, Japanese people might not think of the term RPG as as much a combination of those individual components (and the same probably goes for STG) as a simple idiomatic word.
Being an Anglophone, I even come across people calling fighting games "beat-'em-ups", which I find annoying. This is sort of why I disagree with the term "shooting game" to be used in English context.

[malik11]

I live in a city that has a huge asian community, so there's an arcade with lots of japanese machines. Aren't I lucky?

For Syndicate,

You're lucky to have such an arcade with such Japanese arcade cabinets...can't say that about the local arcade hangouts around in my area. ^_~

The social atmosphere of an arcade & playing with complete strangers -- those qualities are missing from what one owning/playing such arcade cabinets at home (which is a very different experience, of course).

If you stop & ponder a bit, you'll eventually realize you're the owner, manager, customer & player all rolled up into one person if you can afford such an personal arcade with such full-sized American or Japanese cabinets for home use... ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

I agree very strongly with this. In fact, there was an old game that I played called Runaway City , and there was a female character in it who said that as a child, she didn't have any friends so she started playing video games, and she was specifically an arcade player. In reality, you also obviously wouldn't invite someone you don't know over to your house to battle in fighting games, or to, say, exchange demonstrations of strategies with in FSTPTDAPGEs.

[KindGrind]

I'm in Canada. About 10 years ago or so people actually went to the arcades here. Very few shmups were actually played though. Everybody played SF, VF, MK, KI and the like.

The only places where you can still see the latest arcades around here are theme parks. And even then, not many players dare to put money in games like Mushi. People want to play for their money's worth, and feel shmups are very intimidating, especially when you've never played them before.

I feel people don't play shmups in arcades anymore (here anyway) because it doesn't impress as much as other games. I think part of the reason why people play in arcades is the deep desire to show off their skills. Put the best DDP player in the world in an arcade around here and nobody will even notice.

[doctorx0079]

Scrolling shooters. I WIN.

And the number one reason arcades were ever popular in the West is because most young people couldn't afford decent computers, and console games weren't anywhere near as good. Now console games are just as good in terms of graphics and gameplay, and arcade makers have to try to outdo them, which makes for very expensive arcade games.

[henry dark]

Shooters are dying in Nagoya, Japan.

Went into my local today and they've moved Mushi BL into the corner, made it 2 plays for 100yen, moved Pink Sweets even further into the darkness, got rid of Death Smiles and Muchi Pork completely...

and made way for, yes, more faceless beat em ups!

Luckily, they still have the Shmups Skillz Test

Just to rub salt in the wound, they turned the sound off Mushi BL! Presumably so it wouldn't get in the way of the more important "round one fight!" noises going on elsewhere. Now, without the sound effect, I have to look at the counter myself to see if it's green or blue...

[doctorx0079]

Of course you realize we would kill to have any of those.

Just saying.

[malik11]

I don't know... That still sounds like bad news to me. If that kept up, it could only make STGs harder to access/acquire.

[undamned]

Well, casting aside all the silly talk of what to call shmups, the whole "are Japanese gamers magical beings?" issue was touched on in the following article that I found to be a great read. It's about fighting game players, but the rules probably apply to shooting games, as well:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/article ... ustin-Wong

(If somebody knows of a more appropriate thread, I can move this. I was thinking there was...)
-ud

[GaijinPunch]

In fighting games, you're only as good as your best opponent give or take. US Arcade scene = dead = hard to find competition = far fewer high level players. For shooting games, you're only as good as yourself, which you get from time and dedication. HOWEVER, there's a lot to be learned from the guy playing on the cab just before you. On that note, westerners are at a slight disadvantage, but nothing like in the fighting community.

[JoshF]

I was eating a Famous Star from Carl's Jr. at the time.

The author is lucky I didn't stop at this fucking useless NGJ signature.

[Ed Oscuro]

I was eating a Famous Star from Carl's Jr. at the time.

The author is lucky I didn't stop at this fucking useless NGJ signature.

You might as well have.

[kccttzj]

In fighting games, you're only as good as your best opponent give or take. US Arcade scene = dead = hard to find competition = far fewer high level players. For shooting games, you're only as good as yourself, which you get from time and dedication. HOWEVER, there's a lot to be learned from the guy playing on the cab just before you. On that note, westerners are at a slight disadvantage, but nothing like in the fighting community.

Overall, I would have to agree that the US arcade scene is dead, so less competition, etc., but not entirely. In my area, there's actually a pretty good scene as far as fighting games go. I can't say that they're all top-tier players, but they show up all week, and stay for hours. I can usually bank on having to stay at least an extra half hour after we close on Friday nights, because there are still so many people playing Tekken 5 Dark Ressurection. They learn a lot from each other, and only know each other through the arcade. I guess we just have an abnormally active community.

As far as shooters... I don't think we'd have much support. I know a few people who would be interested in them, but not even sure if they'd actually go to the arcade to play them, unless it was something they couldn't play at home.

[JoshF]

You might as well have.

I know, Gaijin could answer the question in a single paragraph without sounding like he's waiting for someone to throw a Ph.D at him. The white man is more prone to succinctness I guess.

[Ligersknight]

Shooting games? you mean like Quake right?

Fixed.

I have to agree with a lot of sentiment here about the downfall of arcades.

Arcades fell behind the times in technology and gameplay. Previously, they were full of games that had features (graphics, gameplay, etc.) you couldn't get at home. There was a reason to go to the arcade - the home ports just weren't as good as the arcade originals.

As time went on, console and PC games surpassed arcade games in terms of features, graphics, etc. Plus you could play them at home, didn't need to drag your ass to the arcade. Console ports of arcade games became arcade perfect, and even added new features not available in the arcade.

I also agree about the rise of web cafes. It's pretty sad that these PCs, running windows, can out-power most arcade hardware. In fact, Taito Type X/X2 is PC hardware!

There is a arcade in Toronto, that is a real shame of a place. It's dark, smells like cig smoke, and most of the machines in the back are busted or the controls are ass. Ironically they have 6 webcafe-style PCs set up right in front for $3/hr. It's everything that's wrong with arcades. :/

Personally i would LOVE to drag my ass to a arcade (if one even existed in the US).

[Ligersknight]

Instead of calling these games shmups call them Forced scrolling third person two dimensional aerial pugilism gameplay experience. (FSTPTDAPGEs)

Will be using as a sig for the epic lulz!1 =D

[henry dark]

In arcades here they have these huge Gundam games where you sit in pods and feel car sick.

[Mills]

This is a no brainer topic because its so obviously clear.

[Ed Oscuro]

Instead of calling these games shmups call them Forced scrolling third person two dimensional aerial pugilism gameplay experience. (FSTPTDAPGEs)

Will be using as a sig for the epic lulz!1 =D

Awesome, but fix the tags in your sig...how did you manage to get two tags from the wrong posters in there? lmao

[louisg]

And in Australia, using the word "schmuk" is considered very American, and by virtue of that, nobody would be caught dead doing so.

It's yiddish, dude.