IGN reviewer can't play or pronounce Ikaruga

Post by **spadgy** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:52 am

Twiddle wrote:self-pwn

I like how anyone with dissenting opinions on his forums are banned that's hilarious

Wasn't it his attitude and approach that got him banned though, rather than his opinions?

moozooh · Post by **moozooh** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:55 am

His opinions and ways of presenting them were integrated with each other. Which is a good thing in general, but not in this particular case.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:34 am

JoshF wrote:
This page needs icy.
Check his latest article for a posthumous pwn.

Nice.

StoofooEsq · Post by **StoofooEsq** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:47 am

szycag wrote:He bitched about us in his blog!

Lol. He went from referring to this board's members as "gentlemen" to simply calling the posters here "monkeys". I haven't given enough time to sit down, read over, and ponder about that article, but I believe he should've kept the results of recent Internet drama from leaking into it (especially to the point of naming an individual forum community). That just makes him look, for lack of a better term, butthurt.

moozooh wrote:His opinions and ways of presenting them were integrated with each other. Which is a good thing in general, but not in this particular case.

Was icycalm always that way? Or did something occur on these boards that made him heel turn into a villainous poster with an abusive method of stating his opinions?

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:26 am

I love the post immediately above. "Heel turn" evokes that sense that Alex is going to climb into a ring with a folding chair and try to hit somebody over the head.

Except I don't trust that guy to pull any punches. Kinda reminds me of New Jack that way.

Randorama · Post by **Randorama** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:51 am

Given the direction of this thread, I'd say: "Many enemies, much honour".

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:21 pm

spadgy wrote: Wasn't it his attitude and approach that got him banned though, rather than his opinions?

exactly. it has nothing to do with his actual opinions - people disagree here all the time. it's that he couldn't articulate his points without lowering himself to playground-bully level, name-calling and throwing around abusive language.

Twiddle wrote:self-pwn

I like how anyone with dissenting opinions on his forums are banned that's hilarious

if he banned some of the sycophants he might learn to accept criticisms

verdict: takes internet too personally. (jesus of nazareth indeed)

Post by **spadgy** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:24 pm

jpj wrote:
spadgy wrote: Wasn't it his attitude and approach that got him banned though, rather than his opinions?
exactly. it has nothing to do with his actual opinions - people disagree here all the time. it's that he couldn't articulate his points without lowering himself to playground-bully level, name-calling and throwing around abusive language.

Right. Just what I thought. And what I told Icy plenty while he was here on his last legs...

Twiddle, I think there's plenty of space here for 'dissenting opinions'. If we all agreed 100% it would be really dull here. But Icy was unpleasant and rude when putting across what could have been very interesting points and views...

evil_ash_xero · Post by **evil_ash_xero** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:18 pm

You know, all this shmups reviews vs. casual reviewers stuff got me thinking.

And I tend to like to check out mainstream reviews a bit more than shmups reviews. There are always the idiots who don't think they are full games, but most seems to actually have to be a bit impressed to give it a good score. If you check out gamerankings, most of the darn good games have good rankings. And not just Treasure's games either.

I find that a lot of shmup review sites give games some seriously overhyped scores.

I like to take a look at both and kind of think it over before I buy something.

I will say this though, it seems the only game that the shmups.com forums and mainstream reviewers seem to spit on(in a reverse way) is R-Type Final. It gets very good reviews from the press, but most of us seem to be quite underwhelmed(blame it on bad stage design).

But usually, it's the other way around. Look at reviews for Giga Wing. Ouch.

s/m

moozooh · Post by **moozooh** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:53 pm

spadgy wrote:Twiddle, I think there's plenty of space here for 'dissenting opinions'. If we all agreed 100% it would be really dull here. But Icy was unpleasant and rude when putting across what could have been very interesting points and views...

Twiddle's talking about what Icy does on his own forums.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:51 pm

evil_ash_xero wrote:but most seems to actually have to be a bit impressed to give it a good score. If you check out gamerankings, most of the darn good games have good rankings. And not just Treasure's games either.

It's because everything ever has received a decent score unless it's a licensed game or Army Men.

Metacritic:
Gradius Galaxies (78) is equal to Mars Matrix (78)? Are you kidding me? Gunbird 2 has the gaming equivalent of a failing grade (64), Border Down isn't much better (65). R-Type Final is better than all of those (79)? Etc.

The only shooters scoring an 80+ are developed by Treasure or are downloadable games (Geometry Wars and Everyday Shooter). Downloadable games = handheld 15 pt. bonus for consoles.

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:07 pm

moozooh wrote:
spadgy wrote:Twiddle, I think there's plenty of space here for 'dissenting opinions'. If we all agreed 100% it would be really dull here. But Icy was unpleasant and rude when putting across what could have been very interesting points and views...
Twiddle's talking about what Icy does on his own forums.

indeed. in this thread, a guy called Anid Maro disagrees with what icy is saying, and icy leaves a lollerific reply. when Anid posts his reasonable reply back, icy deletes his post and bans him

http://forum.insomnia.ac/viewtopic.php?t=68&start=25

evil_ash_xero · Post by **evil_ash_xero** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:33 pm

No, not at MetaCritic. I think that site kind of sucks for game reviews. I was specifically referring to Game Rankings.

But anyway, I just have to say that there are a lot of pages that gives way too high of scores. You'd think everything is a masterpiece. I usually just try to look at both(if that is a possibility). See, I don't really like Psikyo, so i'm like "well, there ya go".
Hey, IGN game Zero Gunner 2 a pretty high score. I kinda like that one too actually.

It's just sorta hard to find a middle ground. 1UP in it's recent Ikaruga review pointed out how a lot of shmup fans are "too forgiving" with every new release that comes out. I think there is a lot of truth to that.

It's not like all mainstream sites hate shmups. Ibara was well reviewed by, well, all the sites that did review it. Which I thought was well deserved. Especially when I think a lot of lesser games get praised all over the place that are much weaker in these forums.

But yeah, that review of Shiki III(which I haven't played) is the sorta review that doesn't get the point. As long as I can tell that the review "gets the point", i'll listen to a mainstream review. And I think some of them are a bit more reliable than shmup related sites.

I know that's an unpopular theory, but man, at shmups sites, too many games are "9s" and "10s", and I think we should be a little more demanding.

s/m

Rob wrote:
evil_ash_xero wrote:but most seems to actually have to be a bit impressed to give it a good score. If you check out gamerankings, most of the darn good games have good rankings. And not just Treasure's games either.
It's because everything ever has received a decent score unless it's a licensed game or Army Men.

Metacritic:
Gradius Galaxies (78) is equal to Mars Matrix (78)? Are you kidding me? Gunbird 2 has the gaming equivalent of a failing grade (64), Border Down isn't much better (65). R-Type Final is better than all of those (79)? Etc.

The only shooters scoring an 80+ are developed by Treasure or are downloadable games (Geometry Wars and Everyday Shooter). Downloadable games = handheld 15 pt. bonus for consoles.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:47 pm

Gamerankings looks nearly identical since they're collecting from the same sources.

evil_ash_xero wrote:And I think some of them are a bit more reliable than shmup related sites.

Which ones are you referring to?

freddiebamboo · Post by **freddiebamboo** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:54 pm

jpj wrote: In this thread, a guy called Anid Maro disagrees with what icy is saying, and icy leaves a lollerific reply. when Anid posts his reasonable reply back, icy deletes his post and bans him

http://forum.insomnia.ac/viewtopic.php?t=68&start=25

That really is the funniest thing I've read in years

evil_ash_xero · Post by **evil_ash_xero** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:58 pm

Ha, now that's a good question.

Shumps.com, Plasmablossom, Insomnia..etc. NO disrespect directed at the reviewers of these sites, since I do check them out and take their opinions into account. But seriously, what did Atomic Robo Boy get? 9 or 10? Sega-16 had a pretty funny write up on ARB. You should check it out for an opposite opinion from a pretty hardcore site.

Shikigami No Shiro II is cool, but a 9?(at shmups)
Plasma Blossom gave Ibara(a game which I like very much) a 10, which I think is a bit on the high side.
I just disagree, and agree a bit more with some mainstream sites. I certainly don't consider myself a "casual gamer", but I don't have "hardcore blindness" either.

But like I said, the same goes for mainstream sites too. I mean, freaking Ratchet and Clank 3 is like a 95+ percent almost all the time? You're telling me that RAC 3 is on the same level as games like Chrono Trigger, FF VI, and Metal Gear Solid? OK....

s/m

Rob wrote:Gamerankings looks nearly identical since they're collecting from the same sources.
evil_ash_xero wrote:And I think some of them are a bit more reliable than shmup related sites.
Which ones are you referring to?

320x240 · Post by **320x240** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:02 pm

I agree with what evil_ash_xero says - on many specialized shmup-review sites there is a tendency to be to forgiving 'just because it's a shmup'. This is tied in with what Icycalm is saying about people getting 'overjoyed' over the Ikaruga review. You have to remember though, that these specialized review sites are more or less fan sites at the same time.

On the other hand - nowhere will a game be more thoroughly trashed if it doesn't meet a certain standard or tries to 'fake it' than in these forums.

shoe-sama · Post by **shoe-sama** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:04 pm

freddiebamboo wrote:
jpj wrote: In this thread, a guy called Anid Maro disagrees with what icy is saying, and icy leaves a lollerific reply. when Anid posts his reasonable reply back, icy deletes his post and bans him

http://forum.insomnia.ac/viewtopic.php?t=68&start=25
That really is the funniest thing I've read in years

someone needs to go dig up that post where icycalm says disagreeing w/o reason = ban
haha icycalm is the worst retard ever by his own standards

JoshF · Post by **JoshF** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:47 pm

I disagree with that but I'm not saying why lol useful

if he banned some of the sycophants he might learn to accept criticisms

They have if they say something stupid. Intelligence is the qualifier. It's probably also time we admit some of us here are closet homosexuals for corporate game journalism/racketeering and want nothing more than their validation and would have no criticisms of it at all if they only picked us for the schutzstaffel instead of being on the receiving end.

But seriously, what did Atomic Robo Boy get? 9 or 10? Sega-16 had a pretty funny write up on ARB. You should check it out for an opposite opinion from a pretty hardcore site.

If Sega-16 gave a better review than Shmpus than that would be a perfect indicator that the forum needs to organize and make a site of there own. Also, Sega-16 is funny because it's a joke.

Here's my Atomic Robo Kid MD hardcore review:
A bad game version of Mr. Heli less thoughtful stage layouts broken scoring no time limits (due to coming from an era when console port designers thought removing time limits would be so freeing, to play a broken game.) 1/5

Necronom · Post by **Necronom** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:50 pm

Icy banned many people from his forum who came up with plenty of reasons for disagreeing with him. His "justification" usually went something like "this is a discussion forum for a bunch of friends and I don't like your arguments that's why I ban you" - fanboy fascism at its best so please don't give me any "schutzstaffel" crap here.
The truth is painful and simple...while he does come up with some useful knowledge about arcade games from time to time most of his "criticism" is simply attention whoring. He's the Uwe Boll of the video game critics...getting more attention than he deserves.

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:57 pm

yeah, that Anid guy proved what he said without insults, just some good reasoning. but the fragility of icy's ego meant that Anid's post had to be deleted and his account banned. didn't break any rules, and didn't even wholistically criticise the article - just said the first paragraph didn't use the best example.

making icy's arguments look bad: instant ban

Post by **Shatterhand** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:08 pm

I feel like posting on Icycalm's forum just to make fun of him and get banned, but I think I should know better or something

Not to mention he will probably interpret as the whole shmups.com forum is going against him, as I've seen this happening before.

evil_ash_xero · Post by **evil_ash_xero** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 5:22 am

Rob wrote:Gamerankings looks nearly identical since they're collecting from the same sources.
evil_ash_xero wrote:And I think some of them are a bit more reliable than shmup related sites.
Which ones are you referring to?

NTSC UK isn't bad. IGN actually has given props to a lot of really good shmups, as has gamespot. It kind of goes review to review, but games like R-Type Delta, Raystorm, G Darius, Einhander, Ikaruga, RS, Gradius V, Gradius Gaiden, and some others have all gotten positive reviews from a lot of mainstream sites. And IGN has given very positive reviews to older shmups on their Virtual Console reviews. So, I don't think this "mainstream reviews are garbage" is all that accurate. But it's certainly out there.

Silicon Era kinda sucks though.

s/m

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 5:41 am

JoshF is either with us or with the terrorists.

But I have to agree about Sega-16 to some degree; Malc is a good guy but hating on Bernie Stolar makes me lol

On the other hand, Sega-16 has actual interviews and worthwhile stuff.

Acid King · Post by **Acid King** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:02 am

JoshF wrote: It's probably also time we admit some of us here are closet homosexuals for corporate game journalism/racketeering and want nothing more than their validation and would have no criticisms of it at all if they only picked us for the schutzstaffel instead of being on the receiving end.

The ridiculousness of this whole stupid argument is that Icycalm criticizes the IGN reviewer for not understanding the game but the reality is that he hasn't shown that he understands any of the shooters he reviews either. We have no videos or scores or any legitimate proof that he can apply any of his knowledge to any of the games he reviews. Yet he can call out an IGN reviewer ('You can't review a game you can't play') and get a pass? Why? Because he's a pretentious hack with a hard on for arcade games writing on a blog, not a guy writing a review on an evil corporate games site.

The IGN review is a bad review because it lacks a strong opinion, but criticizing it, while giving a pass to a guy whose only demonstration that he understands the score systems in the shooters he reviews is written explanations (information that can just as easily be gleaned from second hand sources like the Wikipedia entry on Ikaruga everyone tosses at the IGN reviewer) because he "appreciates" it more is just fucking bullshit.

captain ahar · Post by **captain ahar** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:05 am

freddiebamboo wrote:
jpj wrote: In this thread, a guy called Anid Maro disagrees with what icy is saying, and icy leaves a lollerific reply. when Anid posts his reasonable reply back, icy deletes his post and bans him

http://forum.insomnia.ac/viewtopic.php?t=68&start=25
That really is the funniest thing I've read in years

wow that is the dumbest argument i have read in a long time. astoundingly stupid article as well.

makes me miss him even less somehow.

breaking news edit: i'm thinking maybe there is some "asshole club" that is planning the end of the world. icycalm got hip to their scheme so he is setting out to become such an asshole that he will be invited to join, thus giving him the chance to meet the inner circle, and dismantle it from the inside out.

JoshF · Post by **JoshF** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:46 am

JoshF is either with us or with the terrorists.

I prefer to be called an insurgent.

The ridiculousness of this whole stupid argument is that Icycalm criticizes the IGN reviewer for not understanding the game but the reality is that he hasn't shown that he understands any of the shooters he reviews either.

The IGN reviewer didn't understand the game to a sufficient degree required for a quality assessment. I think Icy's reviews demonstrate a sufficient understanding even if he didn't mention one thing from the shmups strategy guide in one review. I haven't read a review of Battle Garegga yet that described the rank points of everything either.

szycag · Post by **szycag** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:06 am

What finer nuances is he missing that the review could benefit from? He seems to understand that to truely excel at the game you need to practice the chaining system to a level of mastery. I would consider an ill-informed review to be one that is still hung up on survival. I don't think the review needs to go any deeper anyways. This is an XBLA title and the demo can be easily attained. Understanding that, Erik Brudvig seems to know his audience quite well. Alex (icy) struggles with that, which could be why a lot of his aimless opinion pieces read like Livejournal posts.

jp · Post by jp » Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:08 am

My question is this:

OK, the IGN guys obviously don't "properly understand" Ikaruga and aren't very good at it. But what high scores and 1CCs does icycalm have under his belt? I see absolutely no mention of 1CCs from him on this board, and a quick search of the high scores forum shows him not even placing in some Mushi thread and then on the lower tier of some other Mushi game apparently no one played. So... what makes him any better than the people at IGN? Because apparently he doesn't have anymore of a grasp on the genre than those people. I mean, it'd be one thing if this episode starred Randorama or DEL or Twitchdoctor or someone who actually played these games WELL and was knowledgable about them first hand, but I really don't see how icycalm can look down upon IGN like he does when a quick glance at his site indicates that he's no better than them, and is in fact probably their equivalent in the psuedo-elitist jerkfest circle.

Just IMO.

Acid King · Post by **Acid King** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:59 am

JoshF wrote: The IGN reviewer didn't understand the game to a sufficient degree required for a quality assessment. I think Icy's reviews demonstrate a sufficient understanding even if he didn't mention one thing from the shmups strategy guide in one review. I haven't read a review of Battle Garegga yet that described the rank points of everything either.

And whate evidence are you using to say this? People keep saying it and never cite anything from the review that shows a lack of understanding. He mentions the three set chaining system, double damage and bullet absorption. Aside from suicide bullets, which he clearly knows about from the video, what else does he need to understand to give a quality assessment? All Icy's reviews demonstrate is that he's read enough to give a decent written explanation of the score system.