Power Ups: The forgotten art

[evil_ash_xero]

I was playing G Darius the other night, and realized how much I miss power ups in games. Yeah, you have the power up of your main shot, but dammit it's not enough.

For instance, how great is it to be able to switch between 5 weapons(and don't forget you can power up 2 of them) in Thunderforce IV?

I find that it adds something cool to strive for(like powering up your shot to wave in G Darius), and just gives the game a cool factor.

Anyone else miss the power ups?

s/m

[MathU]

I blame Cave.

[Turrican]

power-ups flourished during the console years. Indeed, I miss them.

[Rob]

Anyone else miss the power ups?

Not really. Can make a game too easy when you're doing well, too hard when having to start at base level. Darius and Raiden are really annoying in that regard.

Thunder Force always has 2-3 throwaway weapons.

[evil_ash_xero]

Anyone else miss the power ups?

Not really. Can make a game too easy when you're doing well, too hard when having to start at base level. Darius and Raiden are really annoying in that regard.

Thunder Force always has 2-3 throwaway weapons.

Mm...Gradius come to mind when it comes to that. I always found a use for most of Thunderforces weapons. Except maybe "freeway" or is that "threeway?

s/m

[Ed Oscuro]

I agree with Rob. When I'm playing a game like Rapid Hero and you get a powerup before the first wave of popcorn enemies, it becomes apparent that it is a simple mechanic to keep the player occupied catching things and make recovery after dying harder.

[evil_ash_xero]

Boo. You guys aren't real men. Who doesn't want MORE firepower?

Rob, you like Einhander, right? Strip it away of all it's cool weaponry, and you'd have a pretty dry experience.

[Rob]

Yeah, Einhander has one of the best weapons systems ever, since it's well balanced and requires strategy (picking right ship type, the right pods, saving them for the right moments), which is so often not the case with power-ups. More like that would be cool.

In that it's more about weapon selection than powering up (and up until you're unstoppable).

[evil_ash_xero]

Yeah, Einhander has one of the best weapons systems ever, since it's well balanced and requires strategy (picking right ship type, the right pods, saving them for the right moments), which is so often not the case with power-ups. More like that would be cool.

In that it's more about weapon selection than powering up (and up until you're unstoppable).

Yeah, weapon selection is what I meant to a large degree. But also powering up like in R-Type and other games. Basically, I would like more weapon selection, but only if they're actually usefull.

I miss it greatly. I think G Rev's games would greatly benefit from it. And I know some G Rev supporters will show up very shortly and disagree. I think they were influenced by Ikaruga or something.

I think the lack of weapon selection and power ups have hurt the modern shooter.

s/m

[nimitz]

I love the Mahou Daisakusen power up system or the MUSHA power ups. Lots of stuff to collect, but it takes alot of it to make a difference in your actual firing power.

People who say that losing everything in gradius makes the game badly designed or too hard don't really understand what the game is all about. Very few things in shmups are as satisying as a though recovery in Gradius (being able to get back to full power from a death in a later stage)

[Zebra Airforce]

I only care about weapons/power-ups if they actually add depth. For instance, in Super Space Fortress Macross 2 your shot type favors either range or speed, so it pays to think carefully about which one you use in order to maximize scoring potential.

The bad kind would be like Super Star Soldier, where you grab the green one and hope you don't accidentally grab a blue or a yellow one.

[Ed Oscuro]

I love the Mahou Daisakusen power up system or the MUSHA power ups. Lots of stuff to collect, but it takes alot of it to make a difference in your actual firing power.

This actually has little impact on your overall score, because collecting extra coins when fully powered up only adds 100/coin to your score. Magic shot powerups are worth slightly more at 1000/book, but that's still insignificant.

Dimahoo makes them even less relevant by slowing them down and making them into bigger shot coins thrown up when you're killed.

Toaplan has had some good and some bad powerup designs. Flying Shark makes it hard to get powerups and often throws more planes at you when the item is revealed. Truxton could have been designed entirely without powerups; they appear very slowly and until the later stages there's no skill involved in collecting them and they only serve to let them ramp up the difficulty to match more firepower (of course, they could've designed the game without this).

I don't hate powerups, but I also feel there usually isn't anything that can be done with them that couldn't have been with a different system. Giving the player the opportunity to select any weapon at any time lets the game change the pace much more quickly, and you can still emulate the Toaplan-style point bonuses for keeping a single shot type - or improve on them by adding that elusive element of "strategy."

[PROMETHEUS]

I think power ups are futile in a game centered around skill unless they manage to bring variety to the scoring path without decreasing depth. I don't believe in strategy in shooters at all, all you do is find through trial and error the most optimal path you can use to be safe and make as many points as possible : anyone can do that without skills given enough time. That is not strategy, strategy is molding and practically adapting the means at your disposition to achieve a goal. It isn't merely a plan you make up and then stick to, but indeed "on the fly" smart thinking, as you find in good RTSs, and good FPSs in the form of tactics. That is absent or very weak in STGs.

Now if we're talking about a memorizer it's fine to have many weapons and powerups when they had to the atmosphere, because atmosphere and feeling are the center elements of interest in memorizers. I really like to have those intriguing weapons in Pulstar like the pink force field. It looks cool and just adds to the intriguing nature of the game.

[elfhentaifan]

i hate powerups in doj.
They always tend to break your chain. Some of them are truly evil

[Turrican]

People who say that losing everything in gradius makes the game badly designed or too hard don't really understand what the game is all about. Very few things in shmups are as satisying as a though recovery in Gradius (being able to get back to full power from a death in a later stage)

So very true.

[Shocky]

Yeah, I miss the REAL power-ups and the different playing strategies they make possible. In Cave games the difference between weapons is always marginal (even when they are selectable, like in Ibara arrange mode), no matter what you do and how much you point blank the enemies will always release pretty much the same amount of bullets just before they die.

The king of power-upping is indeed Gradius. Especially if the player can obtain hidden special weapons by taking some voluntary risks like collecting special power ups or searching destroyed enemy structures (MSX Salamander/Gradius games).

I really like the idea of buying power-ups between stages (Forgotten Worlds, Area 88, X-Out, Jets'n'Guns). It makes the routine of playing through the boring and easy initial stages much more bearable, when I can experiment with different weapon combinations. The Gradius system offers this buying thing in mid-action, which is high respect design (except that a speed-down system is missing from most games in the series).

[D]

A shmup without powerups is not a shmup.
I think Battle Garrega and Raiden Fighters have a good power up systems.
To make a shmup without power ups is just plain silly.
I don;t like buying power ups nor do I like switchable weapons, nor do I like the option gradius system.
Battle garegga/Raiden Fighters or die!

[Ruldra]

I always found a use for most of Thunderforces weapons. Except maybe "freeway"

Freeway in Thunderforce IV is actually the strongest weapon there. Just try using it against bosses/mid-bosses and you'll see how quickly they go down.

Regarding powerups, I second these:

Can make a game too easy when you're doing well, too hard when having to start at base level.

it's more about weapon selection than powering up

i hate powerups in doj. They always tend to break your chain.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that Daifukkatsu probably won't have powerups. Just proves that they aren't needed anymore.

[Ghegs]

A shmup without powerups is not a shmup.

In latest news: Ikaruga is no longer eligible to be in the Top 25 vote. Everybody is encouraged to change their votes to, I dunno, Raiden 1 or something.

[Shatterhand]

Rob pretty much nailed the subject. Weapon Selection is good, Power-Ups either unbalance the game or is just superfluous.

[spadgy]

I think power-ups are irrelevant to game quality to a certain extent. I like some scrolling shooters with them, some without, and some with weapon select. However, getting your weapon from a puny little lazer to a screen covering hellfire with missiles and boombs and options is of course hugely satisfying.

Onto to Turrican's comment..

power-ups flourished during the console years. Indeed, I miss them.

I totally understand what era you mean, but it makes me wonder, if we're not in the console years now, what era are we in? The great depression maybe? I'm not that cynical really, but I wonder...

[320x240]

power-ups flourished during the console years. Indeed, I miss them.

I totally understand what era you mean, but it makes me wonder, if we're not in the console years now, what era are we in? The great depression maybe? I'm not that cynical really, but I wonder...

I think it's better to say that they flourished during the arcade years as that's where they originated and made sense.

[HeWhoGoverns]

Freeway was one of the best weapons in Thunder Force 4. It is the only all-ranged weapon. And the Free Range in Thunder Force 5 is just broken. That is one of the instances where, in my experience, it truly does make the game too easy when you learn how to use it.

But i love power-ups in shmups. Yeah, its frustrating when you lose them, but the feeling of power and awe you get as you increase your strength is worth it. I love playing Raiden and just plowing through the levels with the max vulcan.

[Turrican]

I think power-ups are irrelevant to game quality to a certain extent. I like some scrolling shooters with them, some without, and some with weapon select. However, getting your weapon from a puny little lazer to a screen covering hellfire with missiles and boombs and options is of course hugely satisfying.

Onto to Turrican's comment..

power-ups flourished during the console years. Indeed, I miss them.

I totally understand what era you mean, but it makes me wonder, if we're not in the console years now, what era are we in? The great depression maybe? I'm not that cynical really, but I wonder...

No matter how powerful we may be fighting-wise
a system where all the parts react the same way
is a system with a fatal flaw.
Like individual, like organization.
Overspecialization leads to death.
That's all. Kusanagi Motoko.

It's not a depression, it's more like a recession. It's not even a decadence - arguably many of the few shmups released these days are jewels per se. But they are playing it safe with the same audience. I'm not especially bitter with the situation as it is now; however, being fairly contempt with what I get now doesn't cloud my senses on what the genre was offering before. When it was more raw and immature if you want, but also more vital.

I think it's better to say that they flourished during the arcade years as that's where they originated and made sense.

I politely disagree. With some degree of generalization, everything generated from the arcades. So we're not saying much by saying that.

[Rob]

I don't believe in strategy in shooters at all, all you do is find through trial and error the most optimal path you can use to be safe and make as many points as possible :

Not every game is DDP. Some require thinking beyond trial and error and on the fly thinking. Regardless of that, coming up with and sticking to a plan is precisely strategy. "Plan" is all over any definition of strategy.

[nimitz]

however, being fairly contempt with what I get now doesn't cloud my senses on what the genre was offering before. When it was more raw and immature if you want, but also more vital.

I have to agree, I feel one of the main interest of shmups is simplicity. The more complex and rigid the scoring sytems become, the farther away we move from the roots that made this genre so great. A good example of relatively new games that kept it simple while improving on the basic concept is Psikyo's Strikers series, where so much care was put into making every second of a game fun, while keeping it as simple as possible.

In a way, in this world of minimal attention span, I feel shmups (or old-school shmups) represent well the idea of really enjoying the simplest things.

I think power ups are futile in a game centered around skill unless they manage to bring variety to the scoring path without decreasing depth.

Once again Mahou ot MUSHA. the power ups don't really influence score but they take some skill to collect (they fall in variable patterns). Also they do influence fire power wich makes collecting them quickly important.

I think Battle Garrega and Raiden Fighters have a good power up systems.

Battle Garegga power up system --> Avoid the power ups as if they were bullets. More like an anti-"power-up system"

[BulletMagnet]

Anyone else miss the power ups?

Not really.

I guess I more or less fall into this camp as well...while I don't "hate" power-ups, especially in more recent games where the focus is more on exploiting a scoring system than just blowing up everything you see indiscriminately they seemed more like "tradition for tradition's sake" than anything else (the Giga Wings pop most immediately to mind). It is kind of nice to see your pea shooter eventually become a mega-wave of death, and some power up systems were pretty fair insofar as how harshly they "punished" you for dying and losing firepower, but a lot of the time I'd find myself wondering if the developers couldn't have just streamlined the game and given you "full" power from the start.

[Enhasa]

Rob pretty much nailed the subject. Weapon Selection is good, Power-Ups either unbalance the game or is just superfluous.

I agree, but there are games where you actually might not want to pick up powerups, like to rank control. Those are good.

That is not strategy, strategy is molding and practically adapting the means at your disposition to achieve a goal. It isn't merely a plan you make up and then stick to, but indeed "on the fly" smart thinking, as you find in good RTSs, and good FPSs in the form of tactics. That is absent or very weak in STGs.

I put Senko no Ronde at the top of my top25, lol.

[spadgy]

It's not a depression, it's more like a recession. It's not even a decadence - arguably many of the few shmups released these days are jewels per se. But they are playing it safe with the same audience. I'm not especially bitter with the situation as it is now; however, being fairly contempt with what I get now doesn't cloud my senses on what the genre was offering before. When it was more raw and immature if you want, but also more vital.
.

I guess I was talking about games in general. In fact your absolutely right and I didn't mean to over emphasise the 'great depression' thing as it was more of a suggestion that opinion. I love where we are with shmups right now. I'm not exactly struggling to find some to play!

Even ones with acceptable power-up systems!

[A_Civilian]

Ah, Raiden II......

You get annoyed by losing your second to last life at max power, the fairy drops a yellow M and a flashing P, you get happy and take the M then the P, and then you get shot again five seconds later at your last life. The best reaction is to just laugh as you put in your initials.

I think of power-ups like a shiny object: it's not major, but you just want to nab it.