Top 20 Most Collectible Games

[Turrican]

Huh... Okay, let's put it this way. Do I have to remind you that many amiga platformers were advertised as "the game that will throw Sonic in the dust"?

I'm speaking of Tearaway Thomas and Zool, mostly. Tearaway Thomas was pure crap and they really said in magazines that it was going to be Amiga's answer to Sonic. Haha

^ In comparison, Giana Sisters is a much better Mario wannabe. True, SMB is of course better, so what? SMB is still among the best platorms ever made, it's quite naive to say an european hack cannot compare.

By the way, most platformers were overrated on Amiga. see Superfrog. Compared to the fuss Team 17 fans do around Superfrog, I prefer a little "honest" Giana Sisters to it.

(Truth is: platformers never ruled the Amiga scene because noone could go back to them after playing Turrican II )

[Ganelon]

Yeah, didn't the creators/marketers of Zool themselves claim that it was specifically designed to be faster than Sonic? Faster, yes. Mediocre, also yes. Probably among the most criticized games that don't really have a physically describable problem (graphics are OK, control is OK, music is decent).

[Herr Schatten]

The Great Giana Sisters was a blatant SMB rip-off, quite good on its own, but nowhere near the quality of the original.

As often, I find your opinion on Commodore classics tend to be harsh, Herr Schatten. Don't be too picky, do I have to remind you what kind of junk platformers crowded these systems?

I think you missed the bit where I said that it's "quite good". I like the game (at least the C64 version). Actually, I like it enough to have just downloaded the cellphone version to my mobile, which is quite nice. It would be great fun if my phone wasn't a pile of junk, I guess.

As for being too harsh: I just try to be not too rose-tinted. I won't praise a game for being something it just isn't.

By its nature, Giana has to be compared to SMB and it loses in comparison.

Just because most alternatives on the system are worse doesn't miraculously make a game better than it is. A good/bad/mediocre game stays what it is, it doesn't change its quality depending on the overall quality of the system's library.

[Turrican]

A good/bad/mediocre game stays what it is, it doesn't change its quality depending on the overall quality of the system's library.

It would be a better world if that rule stayed true. Unfortunately, it simply isn't. The opinion on a game is alway related to that kind of considerations. One might try hard to give an objective evaluation, but will never reach it totally.

It is also untrue on a different level: it's just natural than when a decent/good game comes to a system that is severely lacking in that genre, the gamers are willing to accept it more than gladly.

Ocarina of Time is not the best Zelda by its merits: it is seen so largely due to the fact that it was one of the few thing people could play on the N64 without feeling embarrassed.

[Herr Schatten]

A good/bad/mediocre game stays what it is, it doesn't change its quality depending on the overall quality of the system's library.

It would be a better world if that rule stayed true. Unfortunately, it simply isn't. The opinion on a game is alway related to that kind of considerations. One might try hard to give an objective evaluation, but will never reach it totally.

It is also untrue on a different level: it's just natural than when a decent/good game comes to a system that is severely lacking in that genre, the gamers are willing to accept it more than gladly.

Probably, but that doesn't make the game itself better. All you're saying is that the perception of a game is different and all I say is that this doesn't make the game different in any way. You see? We're arguing over totally different things here.

Once you have accumulated a vast collection of consoles and home computers this argument becomes pretty pointless anyway, because the more you know the more you can compare for yourself, getting a better grip at reaching the ever-evading, yet much desired, objectivity. Revisiting games you remember to have liked from time to time and judging them again helps, too. If I express an opinion on an old game it's always my current perception of it. That's why it may sound overly harsh sometimes, because obviously not all games have aged as well as others.

[Turrican]

Probably, but that doesn't make the game itself better. All you're saying is that the perception of a game is different and all I say is that this doesn't make the game different in any way. You see? We're arguing over totally different things here.

Huh, not want to go too philosophical, but, how can you talk about a game's difference without giving a perception? Maybe I'm too relativist for you, but there's no such thing as absolute truth. It's not like "this game is like this", the game is how it's perceived, always. Even your objective, current opinion of the game is a perception and it is never based on the game alone, but on your whole being, experience, surroundings.

Once you have accumulated a vast collection of consoles and home computers this argument becomes pretty pointless anyway, because the more you know the more you can compare for yourself, getting a better grip at reaching the ever-evading, yet much desired, objectivity.

Perhaps. Perhaps it could be the opposite too. I wouldn't be so sure that expanding our knowledge always leads us to a better grasp. Sometimes it could just get things out of focus.
Case in point: amiga shooting scene. Your "current" perception of it could be worsened by the better offer out there, thus not realizing which were the limits developers were facing and sometimes the achievements some games reached nonetheless. I'm not sure a too distant pow always help judge. Sometimes you must be well close to a phenomena to understand it fully: I wouldn't try to judge a Cave game over another as I understand my pow is too mainstream to appreciate score multipliers systems or chaining effectively. On the other hand it is quite common to hear young gamers say that all NES games are quite crappy by nowadays standards.

Revisiting games you remember to have liked from time to time and judging them again helps, too. If I express an opinion on an old game it's always my current perception of it. That's why it may sound overly harsh sometimes, because obviously not all games have aged as well as others.

Yeah, I agree on that, of course. On a greater scale, I'd say an amiga user had to revisit the whole amiga experience and tone it down a bit. I remember how many products (Bodyblows, HA!) and how many programmers were considered absolute genius, while the only merit they had was that they actually had learned a bit how to code on the amiga, and were not ready yet to jump on more profitable markets, as the competition would have crushed them.

[Shatterhand]

I personally find most Team17 stuff to be overrated, still I think they've made some awesome stuff. Project X and Body Blows, for example, were horribly overrated. Super Frog isn't a bad game, but it isn't half as good as it's usually stated. (I think Assasin was a better game IMO, and this is from Team 17 too). Now, the Alien Breed series are awesome

And for Amiga platform games, play Mr. Nutz... I've heard many people who actually PLAYED the game saying it DOES beat Sonic. I must admit I never played it properly, so I can't say. And no, it's not the same as the SNES game (Is a lot different actually, it's a completely new game)

And there's Ruff'n' Tumble, Silly Putty, Soccer Kid, Arabian Nights... those 4 games are IMO better than most stuff available on consoles. And there are many other good platform games on the system.


And I still think Great Giana Sistes is too much overrated

[Turrican]

I personally find most Team17 stuff to be overrated, still I think they've made some awesome stuff. Project X and Body Blows, for example, were horribly overrated. Super Frog isn't a bad game, but it isn't half as good as it's usually stated. (I think Assasin was a better game IMO, and this is from Team 17 too). Now, the Alien Breed series are awesome

Exactly my same ratings! No, wait... Alien Breeds are awesome, but Assassin kinda sucked.

And for Amiga platform games, play Mr. Nutz... I've heard many people who actually PLAYED the game saying it DOES beat Sonic. I must admit I never played it properly, so I can't say. And no, it's not the same as the SNES game (Is a lot different actually, it's a completely new game)

And there's Ruff'n' Tumble, Silly Putty, Soccer Kid, Arabian Nights... those 4 games are IMO better than most stuff available on consoles. And there are many other good platform games on the system.

Mr. Nutz I sadly have to play... But, better than Sonic? No, and it actually is an old fashioned platform, nothing like speed, twists a la Sonic

Ruff'n Tumble = great stuff

Silly Putty = very nice, and very "alternative" platformer

Arabian Nights = This one I played through the end. Nice one, but nothing that will be remembered forever in history.

Soccer Kid = damn, never found a working copy of that one.

And I still think Great Giana Sistes is too much overrated

Still better than the average amiga platformer, and hey, I'm not here to convince anyone, believe what you want. I mean, I know you're the kind of guy that rarely changes opinion, as you still refuse to accept the fact that the world has now Saturn pads for Sony systems available through shipping anywhere, even Brazil.

[Shatterhand]

Have you ever played Assassin Special Edition? The 1st one wasn't all that hot indeed, but this budget re-release is basically a NEW game on all itself, with new weapons, new levels and nearly new everything. It's a LOT better than the 1st one.

Me myself have never played Mr.Nutz too much, so I can't say either, but from what I remember, it's a SPEED platform game, like Sonic indeed. I've heard some people claiming it to be a Sonic beater (At least one of them is a member of this forum too )

And I dunno, I just have a love for Arabian Nights. I think it's a very underrates game

For Soccer Kid, you should try it out. I think there are versions of it in other systems too, maybe you could try emulation.

And about Saturn pads for Sony systems being shipped for Brazil... erm... they are EXPENSIVE and the shipping to here is even MORE expensive and... erm

Oh hell, whatever, I quit

[Turrican]

Have you ever played Assassin Special Edition? The 1st one wasn't all that hot indeed, but this budget re-release is basically a NEW game on all itself, with new weapons, new levels and nearly new everything. It's a LOT better than the 1st one.

Yeah, I heard that, but... I somewhat doubt those changes can make out a better game out of it. Hey, at least the guy isn't blonde anymore, I guess. ^_^

Me myself have never played Mr.Nutz too much, so I can't say either, but from what I remember, it's a SPEED platform game, like Sonic indeed. I've heard some people claiming it to be a Sonic beater (At least one of them is a member of this forum too )

A speed platformer, huh? well:

http://hol.abime.net/2527/screenshot

a closer look at screenshots and you know, you may be right. This makes me VERY interested in this game. As you surely know, being coded by Peter Thierolf (who planned to use this code for an amiga Turrican 4) already makes Nutz something legendary. It was really a shame that it was released so late on the amiga, and also that the console versions are atrocious.

however man, you missed my point before. Better than Sonic? NO. Doesn't matter if it's technically there, or even if it surpasses the original: it simply cannot be better, just like Giana cannot be better than Mario. It is not how it works.

And I dunno, I just have a love for Arabian Nights. I think it's a very underrates game

yeah, it was kinda lovely... ahh, fond memories...

For Soccer Kid, you should try it out. I think there are versions of it in other systems too, maybe you could try emulation.

while hunting for Mr. Nutz, I'll keep a look to this one too.

[GaijinPunch]

Panzer Dragoon Mini is probably easier to find than either of the Aleste games on the Game Gear.

Delisoba Deluxe also comes to mind for something that should be on the list... Heim Waltz and Eyeful Home as well, but they're not really games. Rakugaki Showtime isn't THAT collectible. There's usually a few on Yahoo Japan at any given time, even though they want too much money for it.

Akiyamajin for the PC-Engine ranks up there, finishing around $2500-$3000 every time it's on Yahoo Japan.

[captain ahar]

the palette in Mr. Nutz reminds me of Ristar.

[ST Dragon]

Mr. Nutz was 1st released for the AMIGA & it was a completly different game to Genesis/SNES versions.

I combined element from Sonic, Mario & Zelda.
Very cool game.

[umi]

Zool is fucking wicked :P Very fun game, faster-paced than sonic, but in a precise way that could be controlled, with a lot more potential for skilful play. Zool controlled like a true ninja... Just an all-round kickass game.

Team17 should be inducted as demi-gods for their creation of the worms series (2d versions only...).

Are any of the games on that list even Japanese exclusives? I can't tell, but it's obviously euro-centric, so of course they're not gonna list all the rare jap games... of which there are many...

[ST Dragon]

Zool sucked in my opionion.
It tried to beat Sonic in speed & they just made it too fast the whole time, hard to cotrol & very unplayable. Sonic wasn't fast all the time, expect when going down those cool circular ramps & using the speed boots. Silly on Gremlin.

Graphics weren't that great either.
Music was awesome though.

Zool 2 was a good improvement but still is no Sonic Beater.

Mr.Nutz & Robocod were better imo.
What other good similar cute platform games were there for the AMIGA?

[Shatterhand]

We went waaay off-topic there...

I like Zool 2. No, is no sonic beater, but I enjoy it a lot. The 1st Zool kinda of blows though.

You should ask that over EAB, not here! But I'd recommend you Woody's World as a good cute platform game on Amiga.

http://hol.abime.net/1752/screenshot

And Super Laydock, mate, about Peter Thierolf.. check this out:

http://hol.abime.net/1537

Look at the small note at the bottom of the page


Oh, and it seems like Mr.Nutz was actually a character for something. The character wasn't a game hero first, it was something else. Then it was licensed for an Amiga game.

Then LATER it was licensed to be a SNES game, and it was coded by another team, who probably didn't even look at the Amiga game at all.

[Neon]

Panzer Dragoon mini might be the absolute worst game I've ever played especially when you compare it to its Saturn cousins. Seriously, give it a go in Kega, horrible

[Herr Schatten]

Then LATER it was licensed to be a SNES game, and it was coded by another team, who probably didn't even look at the Amiga game at all.

Do you happen to know what the Mega Drive version is like? Is it more like the SNES or is it a port of the Amiga original?

The Mega Drive having hardware not too different from the Amiga suggests the latter, but you never know.

I ask because I always planned on picking up the game and the Mega Drive version is quite common, unlike the Amiga one, so if it's the same gameplay-wise, I 'll get it.

[Shatterhand]

There was a discussion about that game in EAB not long ago (That's from where I am getting all the info I said here)

From what I could get from there, the Amiga version is exclusive to Amiga.

It seems that there are a Mega-Drive, SNES, Game Boy Color and GBA version now of Mr Nutz, all based on the SNES game.

[Super Laydock]

And Super Laydock, mate, about Peter Thierolf.. check this out:

http://hol.abime.net/1537

Look at the small note at the bottom of the page

Well I checked it out but don't see why you address me with this...
Didn't you mean Turrican?

[Turrican]

And Super Laydock, mate, about Peter Thierolf.. check this out:

http://hol.abime.net/1537

Look at the small note at the bottom of the page

Well I checked it out but don't see why you address me with this...
Didn't you mean Turrican?

Indeed, and if you meant me, you didn't have to remark that. I was telling you that in the previous post. You might also want to check these out:

http://www.nemmelheim.de/turrican/files/neon-t4.html

http://www.nemmelheim.de/turrican/seta/

Just in case you were wondering where I came up with Turrican 4, Shatterhand.

[Shatterhand]

Yes, I meant Turrican

ugh

I always have those low attention bursts.... now what were we talking about it?


Hey Turrican, thanx for that 'SETA' link, I had never seen that page... very interesting.... funny how they consideer Castlevania SOTN as an alternative to Turrican... I would never think of that.

And what I said was adressed at you because you were talking about a Turrican 4, and I just wanted to show you the engine had already been used in Turrican 3. But of course you already knew that, you don't call yourself "TURRICAN" for nothing

[Turrican]

Yeah, it's funny. I guess many of those seta entries (which I contributed to with a couple of names) are questionable: to a Turrican purist, probably all of them.

Because, you see, it's quite difficult to find a valid alternative to it. As successful as it was, there were very few attempts to clone the formula.

Even its closest relatives, Rendering Ranger, or Jim Power really play in a different way. Heck, to say it all, even Turrican games began to play differently than they did from Turrican 3 and on.

Yeah, I knew Thierolf was at Neon and was using that code, that's why I assumed Mr. Nutz was not a speed platformer, because Turrican 3 has a slow pace.

I guess SotN reminds Turrican in the freedom to explore a giant maze. In a sense, I see that more fitting than the Megaman series, which is too much straightforward. But then again, it really depends on which Turrican you've in mind...

Edit: how funny, SETA says Assassin SE is worse than the original... Come to think to it, I seem to recall these were the opinions in the magazines back then.

[Shatterhand]

I noticed that about Assassin SE too, heh.

But I stand, I think Assassin SE adds a lot to the original game. I never liked the 1st one that much, but I played 'til I finished the Special Edition...

[AntiPasta]

The real hard to find item is the famicom copy of Akumajou Dracula, a rare cart released in 1993:

http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/2/box-cvone93.htm

^ Scans from my own copy ^_^

I think I have a FDS game with that same boxart & title... does it come close in rarity?
(ebay turns up naught)

[BrianC]

The real hard to find item is the famicom copy of Akumajou Dracula, a rare cart released in 1993:

http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/2/box-cvone93.htm

^ Scans from my own copy ^_^

I think I have a FDS game with that same boxart & title... does it come close in rarity?
(ebay turns up naught)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... eName=WD1V
I get the impression that the FDS Castlevania is much more common than the Japanese cart version.