Hope Winds/Lords of Thunder is in the Top 10 this year!!

HardcoreOtaku · Post by **HardcoreOtaku** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 6:24 pm

Personally I really hope Winds of Thunder/Lords of Thunder makes it into the top ten this year, for anyone who's never played it and owns a Wii, Download it today!!!!

have great fun and see why it deserves a place in the top ten Shmups!

Massive respect to voters so far:
jp
Sonic R
Ganelon
nimitz
PlasmaBlooD
maco
RGC
szycag
ratlhead
KindGrind
Ridley
louisg
maxi
Asherdude
slateman

oops just noticed this thread:
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=19544

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 6:39 pm

Nice try! We'll be lucky if something not made by Cave makes the top 10.

jp · Post by jp » Sat Apr 05, 2008 6:40 pm

Rob wrote:Nice try! We'll be lucky if something not made by Cave makes the top 10.

Like that would ever happen.

We'll be lucky if Cave's entire library isn't the top 10.

ForceDevice · Post by **ForceDevice** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 7:17 pm

We'll be lucky if Treasure's entire library isn't in the top 10... again.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 7:46 pm

Gradius V is just as much Konami's. It's their formula.

Zebra Airforce · Post by **Zebra Airforce** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 7:54 pm

Rob wrote:Gradius V is just as much Konami's. It's their formula.

Danmaku? No way, bub.

jp · Post by jp » Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:05 pm

ForceDevice wrote:We'll be lucky if Treasure's entire library isn't in the top 10... again.

I agree. I only voted for one of them.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:36 pm

Zebra Airforce wrote:Danmaku? No way, bub.

There's no way Gradius V is that word. It's a pretty conservative update of the series.

nimitz · Post by **nimitz** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:03 am

Gradius V is just as much Konami's. It's their formula.

There's no way Gradius V is that word. It's a pretty conservative update of the series.

Its definitely not a bullet hell. But, Axelay or Thunder Cross 1-2 are much closer to any Gradius than Gradius 5 ever will be.

Treasure made a boring new school "console style"(long levels and long loops) memorizer out of Gradius. Then they added the music, level design and options from the Gradius series and Slapped "Gradius V" on it. Not such a bad game, but its no Gradius.

Heck, even Xexex feels more like a Gradius than Gradius V.

henry dark · Post by **henry dark** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:16 am

nimitz wrote:Not such a bad game, but its no Gradius.

Yes, Treasure departed from the Gradius series formula by actually making G5 fun to play.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:25 am

How has tviks not posted in here yet?

I can't handle these crazies on my own.

Gungriffon Geona · Post by **Gungriffon Geona** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 1:53 am

henry dark wrote:
nimitz wrote:Not such a bad game, but its no Gradius.

Yes, Treasure departed from the Gradius series formula by actually making G5 fun to play.

and added nothing but brown and blue and yellow to the color palette. also you must be high because out of all the Gradius games 5 is the one that ruins the fun of it.

Post by **nZero** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 1:57 am

What fun? You can't ruin what was never present.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:29 am

Every bizarre perspective has been covered in so few posts. Amazing!

Zebra Airforce · Post by **Zebra Airforce** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:35 am

Rob wrote:Every bizarre perspective has been covered in so few posts. Amazing!

Totally

Gradius V isn't Gradius - For one, it is too a danmaku, with a wonky hitbox like some doujin game (AirradeAIR, maybe?). In fact, the whole thing feels like a cheap knock-off. The only thing they improved was that bullets are finally on the top layer* - too bad they are too small to see.

Gradius V is almost as good as Gradius IV

*How many times did Konami fuck this up?! You'd think after so many titles they'd take notice.

BrianC · Post by **BrianC** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:54 am

Zebra Airforce wrote:
Rob wrote:Every bizarre perspective has been covered in so few posts. Amazing!
Totally

Gradius V isn't Gradius - For one, it is too a danmaku, with a wonky hitbox like some doujin game (AirradeAIR, maybe?). In fact, the whole thing feels like a cheap knock-off. The only thing they improved was that bullets are finally on the top layer* - too bad they are too small to see.

Gradius V is almost as good as Gradius IV

Gradius V is not a cheap knock-off, nor it is it a conservative update of the series. The hitbox designed to be small on purpose. As far as the danmaku thing goes, it's not really a curtain fire game, as it doesn't have patterns, but it has times when there as many bullets on screen as a danmaku.

Gradius IV is a weak sequel. It borrowed too heavily from other games in the series with very little new. It's not even in the same league as Gradius V. Gradius IV and Gradius III arcade are my least favorites in the series.

Gradius I and II are both well designed games. Gradius I arcade especially, since it was revolutionary for the time it come out (1985). Power ups, rank, varied levels, and awesome music. Gradius II improved on the formula with more varied levels and bosses. Gradius III arcade was too hard and restricting for its own good. Gradius Gaiden is just plain awesome with some nice level designs, cool moments, and the ability to choose the order of the weapon bar.

Zebra Airforce · Post by **Zebra Airforce** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:06 am

The hitbox designed to be small on purpose

I know, but they put it in a zany spot.

Gradius III arcade is awesome!

EDIT: Also, did they have to cram so many bloom effects into the game?! God, you can't even see your own ship because it's dwarfed by a bunch of blue waviness.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:13 am

I liked the laser effects. But then again I also don't mind lens flare.

Frogacuda · Post by **Frogacuda** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:16 am

Zebra Airforce wrote: Gradius V isn't Gradius - For one, it is too a danmaku, with a wonky hitbox like some doujin game (AirradeAIR, maybe?).

Yeah, I'm calling bullshit on this one. Danmaku is more than just a hitbox size, it's how the fire is handled. If you watch people play through very high loops of G5, it's very, very methodical, not twitch at all. It's about moving precisely between safe points.

Why? Because nearly all of the fire in G5 is aimed, not patterned, just like the original Gradius. There is nothing danmaku about G5 at all. There is no weaving frantically between bullets, there are no "curtains" of fire (which is what the term literally means).

Gradius V is a break from the series -- it feels like Salamandius. But danmaku it ain't.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:21 am

Frogacuda wrote: If you watch people play through very high loops of G5, it's very, very methodical, not twitch at all. It's about moving precisely between safe points.

Not that I'm disagreeing with you but this isn't a great argument since this is how Cave games and the like are also played.

Frogacuda · Post by **Frogacuda** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:28 am

Rob wrote:
Frogacuda wrote: If you watch people play through very high loops of G5, it's very, very methodical, not twitch at all. It's about moving precisely between safe points.
Not that I'm disagreeing with you but this isn't a great argument since this is how Cave games and the like are also played.

Not in the same way. You're trying to fit into holes in the patterns in Cave games. In G5 you're literally hiding behind objects to block fire. Cave games really force you to react to their patterns (which are semi-randomized) each and every time you play.

G5 high-level play is much more like R-Type, X-Multiply or... yes, Gradius, where they're very rehearsed instead of twitch.

BrianC · Post by **BrianC** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:19 am

Zebra Airforce wrote:
The hitbox designed to be small on purpose
I know, but they put it in a zany spot.

How is the cockpit a zany spot?

Zebra Airforce · Post by **Zebra Airforce** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:54 am

How is the cockpit a zany spot?

Actually, it's behind the cockpit, under the tailfin (is that what it's called? Maybe it's a dorsal fin

) It works fine when dodging horizontally, but it throws vertical dodging all out of whack.

Not in the same way. You're trying to fit into holes in the patterns in Cave games. In G5 you're literally hiding behind objects to block fire [...] G5 high-level play is much more like R-Type, X-Multiply or...yes, Gradius

What about this? Or that!? What you should've said is that Gradius III created a danmaku precedent with the lava stage

I realize that us arguing isn't going to work out, because, quite simply, some things irritate me and not you guys. I don't know why i started a "which Gradius" war, anyways. This always happens!

Also, hey Frog, you haven't posted in a while, no? You too, BrianC! Nice to see you guys again

jp · Post by jp » Sun Apr 06, 2008 7:48 am

nZero wrote:What fun? You can't ruin what was never present.

I agree with this guy.

Anyways, back on topic:

I downloaded Lords of Thunder on the VC tonight and played it again for the first time in... God... a decade.

I think it will be moving up my list. I had forgotten how utterly awesome the game is.

Too bad it looks like shit on the VC.

God I need another PC-Engine Duo.

evil_ash_xero · Post by **evil_ash_xero** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 8:26 am

Gradius V is definitely in the Gradius mold, but it just feels different. You can tell that Treasure made it, if you're familiar with their other shooters. I guess it's like a band covering another band's song. It's the same song, but something is obviously different.

Gradius Gaiden is pretty good also(not that good though), but I have serious problems with it's "die and you're screwed" thing. You come back slow as hell with that pea shooter. It's just frustrating.

s/m

jp · Post by jp » Sun Apr 06, 2008 8:29 am

evil_ash_xero wrote:I have serious problems with it's "die and you're screwed" thing. You come back slow as hell with that pea shooter. It's just frustrating.

Doesn't that describe the entire series though?

Zebra Airforce · Post by **Zebra Airforce** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 8:34 am

Gradius Gaiden is pretty good also(not that good though), but I have serious problems with it's "die and you're screwed" thing. You come back slow as hell with that pea shooter. It's just frustrating.

Really? I felt as though it had extremely forgiving checkpoints - every stage is absolutely filled with orange enemies.

The Coop · Post by **The Coop** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 8:58 am

Alright guys. Take the Gradius V shit back to the Gradius V thread.

Herr Schatten · Post by **Herr Schatten** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:29 am

ForceDevice wrote:We'll be lucky if Treasure's entire library isn't in the top 10... again.

nimitz wrote:Treasure made a boring new school "console style"(long levels and long loops) memorizer out of Gradius. Then they added the music, level design and options from the Gradius series and Slapped "Gradius V" on it. Not such a bad game, but its no Gradius.

I agree with these gentlemen.

ForceDevice · Post by **ForceDevice** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 10:18 am

Zebra Airforce wrote:
Gradius Gaiden is pretty good also(not that good though), but I have serious problems with it's "die and you're screwed" thing. You come back slow as hell with that pea shooter. It's just frustrating.
Really? I felt as though it had extremely forgiving checkpoints - every stage is absolutely filled with orange enemies.

Totally agreed. That's part of the reason why Gaiden is the only Gradius I really like. I was actually surprised by how fast and easy I could power-up again after I died in some spots.

(although IV has a shitload of power-ups as well, if I remember correctly.) EDIT: Nevermind that, played it for a while now and it doesn't. >_>