POLL: Die Hard 4 or Rambo 4?

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:19 pm

Two movie franchises brought back to life from the eighties.
For me, Die Hard 4 stunk, but Rambo was one of the most refreshingly I'll-make-whatever-movie-I-damn-well-like violent bloodbaths in too long.

I should add I only just saw Rambo, which prompted me to find out how everyone else compared the two.

I thought it was awesome no brain shit that managed to somehow hearken back to the days of the muscleman and his machine gun.

No masterpiece, but for me, the film with a clear edge.

Debate!

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:29 pm

didn't die hard 4 originally start out as enemy of the state 2? (would explain a lot)

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 10:12 pm

jpj wrote:didn't die hard 4 originally start out as enemy of the state 2? (would explain a lot)

Is that true?

No wonder it blew!

Stormwatch · Post by **Stormwatch** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 10:16 pm

Die Hard 4 is something like this:

It is mostly good, but the bad parts ruin it!

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 10:53 pm

Rambo 4, no questions.

moozooh · Post by **moozooh** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:12 pm

Both of them aren't serious whatsoever, yet Rambo excels in this respect.

Nuke · Post by **Nuke** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:20 pm

Die Hard died the moment they made it PG-13.
But it's great if you view it as comedy. I "love" it when bad guys hack the internet by typing real fast in front of a 3d screensaver that's displayed on many uncomfortably large screens, and make traffic lights blow up and shit. I also "love" that there's always some type of a "mainframe" involved

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:37 pm

I can't believe someone actually voted for Die Hard 4!

Who are you, confess damn you!

I wholeheartedly agree with the comments here, I'm glad there are so many like-minded people, cos I honestly thought it was just me getting old (ripe age of 26.)
All the kids at work thought it was the best thing ever, and then it dawns on me. 'Kids'.

Ah, now it makes sense.

PaCrappa · Post by **PaCrappa** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 4:20 am

CAPTAIN LOU!

RGC · Post by **RGC** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 6:41 am

Herr Schatten · Post by **Herr Schatten** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:07 am

Rambo. No contest.

Bootaaay · Post by **Bootaaay** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:28 am

Die Hard 4 isn't even a Die Hard movie, it's just a generic action movie and the fact that it's slapped with the Die Hard name is an insult to the films that came before it. Rambo might have some annoying moralisation for the first half hour, but the pace after that is non-stop and the violence is on a whole different level while remaining justified - the first Hollywood action blockbuster to get it right for years.

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:11 am

Totally agreed!

Which begs the question, who keeps voting for DH4, and why don't they post in its defense?

At least then they get a dignified mauling.

doodude · Post by **doodude** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:50 am

I didnt vote since I havent seen either movie. And probably never will.

I was tempted to vote for DH simply becuz I have never, ever seen or smelled anything worse than Sly Stallones acting inabilities, nor given less of a squat from a rats ass about any character this range-less moron has ever made a sorry attempt to portray!

Bruce W on the other hand, while no John Gielgud, is/was a great action hero in the 'everyman' sense, does have some range & is mostly a great pleasure to watch when the movie itself dosent suck.
I have 'Tears of the Sun & 16 Blocks' still waiting for me to find the time to sit down & watch them. ( Hope they dont suck!? )

I love a good 'Kill 'Em Up' but I just see Stallones 'Rambo' as a low rent Jason from Halloween with a waxed chest.

I realize this is more a a rant on how much I cant stand Stallone but you gotta get your shots in when you can!

D · Post by D » Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:45 pm

Die hard 4 is one of the best action movies of 2007. It still has a rating of 7.7 on imdb.
I haven't seen Rambo 4 yet, but friends told me they'd kill me if I would go see it, so I trust their judgement. This thread gets me interested in Rambo4, but I already know it's bad.
wait a minute, 7.6 on imdb? wtf! this might be something after all.
Forget what I posted.
I shall face possible death, I now have to see it.
And heck I allready voted rambo4 for the heck of it.

moozooh · Post by **moozooh** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:54 pm

D wrote:I haven't seen Rambo 4 yet, but friends told me they'd kill me if I would go see it

That's obviously a side-effect of them having seen it. The movie is a huge lecture on killing people in quick but flashy ways.

MR_Soren · Post by **MR_Soren** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:12 pm

Rambo. I can't comprehend how there is even a discussion about this.

Stormwatch · Post by **Stormwatch** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:41 pm

D wrote:Die hard 4 is one of the best action movies of 2007. It still has a rating of 7.7 on imdb.

Consider this: Metallica's St. Anger got some very positive reviews, despite being the worst rock album I've ever listened.

Nuke · Post by **Nuke** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 3:14 pm

Stormwatch wrote:
D wrote:Die hard 4 is one of the best action movies of 2007. It still has a rating of 7.7 on imdb.
Consider this: Metallica's St. Anger got some very positive reviews, despite being the worst rock album I've ever listened.

This, and the fact that imdb rating system and 90% of it's users are retarded.

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 3:44 pm

D wrote:It still has a rating of 7.7 on imdb.

Lol!

This thread gets me interested in Rambo4, but I already know it's bad.

And heck I allready voted rambo4 for the heck of it.

?! Thats a wierd trunaround dude. I wouldn't vote for a film you haven't watched, specially if you think it'll be shit.

'Tears of the Sun & 16 Blocks' still waiting for me to find the time to sit down & watch them. ( Hope they dont suck!? )

They do unfortunately.

I could see where you were going with the comments about Sly, although I don't personally have a predjudice against him over any other muscle-bound action hero of yesteryear. I do thnk Bruce Willis is a great action star, albeit for a different reason - which is why its so terrible to see him in such a steaming pile of shit as DH4. It was one of the worst scripts I've ever heard, and the poor bastard had to resort to 'whooping' in all of the gaps where the one-liners were meant to be. It was a film for little girls, and were his career in better shape, he would've no doubt refused to do it.

The thing about Rambo, is Stallone is still a lunk-head, but the film (like Die Hard 4) has a responsibility to be entertaining in the regular sense, but also adhere to a nostalgic value. The problem with DH4 is the director (see 'asshole') had no respect for the previous material at all - this was evident from the opening credits (which usually slam the film into first gear). Sly at least tried to deliver some kind of old school action movie, rather than update everything into an emo age to sell DVD's. This was to his detriment it seems, as box office takings were far lower than forecasted. But so much respect to him for doing things his own way: it is ultra-violent, women will hate it, and the script is implausible and dodgy. But it brings a certain amount back from the old films in terms of grit. Its almost a two-fingers to new-hollywood in some strange sense...

Nuke · Post by **Nuke** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 3:58 pm

Eh, it'll do better on DVD/Blue Ray. It's guaranteed a cult status unlike 4.0 which will be forgotten quickly. Future generations will either view Die Hard as a oneshot or a Trilogy while Ramo's already a saga.

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 4:11 pm

True, although Rambo 3 was pretty awful. It's lucky it was made in the eighties or may not have been forgiven.

doodude · Post by **doodude** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 4:12 pm

Skykid wrote:
'Tears of the Sun & 16 Blocks' still waiting for me to find the time to sit down & watch them. ( Hope they dont suck!? )
They do unfortunately.

I could see where you were going with the comments about Sly, although I don't personally have a predjudice against him over any other muscle-bound action hero of yesteryear. I do thnk Bruce Willis is a great action star, albeit for a different reason - which is why its so terrible to see him in such a steaming pile of shit as DH4. It was one of the worst scripts I've ever heard, and the poor bastard had to resort to 'whooping' in all of the gaps where the one-liners were meant to be. It was a film for little girls, and were his career in better shape, he would've no doubt refused to do it.

The thing about Rambo, is Stallone is still a lunk-head, but the film (like Die Hard 4) has a responsibility to be entertaining in the regular sense, but also adhere to a nostalgic value. The problem with DH4 is the director (see 'asshole') had no respect for the previous material at all - this was evident from the opening credits (which usually slam the film into first gear). Sly at least tried to deliver some kind of old school action movie, rather than update everything into an emo age to sell DVD's. This was to his detriment it seems, as box office takings were far lower than forecasted. But so much respect to him for doing things his own way: it is ultra-violent, women will hate it, and the script is implausible and dodgy. But it brings a certain amount back from the old films in terms of grit. Its almost a two-fingers to new-hollywood in some strange sense...

!st: well that just sucks!

2nd: I think you give Sly far too much credit.
I dont think he couldve done it any other way. Not because he was sticking to any 'guns' & insisting on giving his, er...fans (!?) an action film worthy of old school action fundamentals, but he is only capable of being what he is. A really poor actor who, like Jason with a hairy chest, made his fame by blood & gore.
Seriously, who watched Rocky or any of the 100's of sequels for anything other than the ass whooping's? ADRIAN!!!! BooHooHooHooHoo...

Who watched Rambo for anything other than the bloody kills?
And who the fuck even saw: "Stop, or my Mom will shoot!?" Bwahahahahaha...

But, I respect youre opinion... no, really I do...

Nuke · Post by **Nuke** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 4:18 pm

I am one of the ten people on this planet that enjoy watching Stop, or my Mom will shoot!...

moozooh · Post by **moozooh** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 4:23 pm

Skykid wrote:Its almost a two-fingers to new-hollywood in some strange sense...

Heh, unfortunately, it's quite the opposite.

Try to analyze how Hollywood movies have been changing over the last, say, 60 years. Aside from the obvious single-word characteristic known as "degradation", you will notice that the movie industry is progressively increasing on the "show". The reason for that is tolerance, the fact that senses grow dull after being exposed to constant (and very high in this case) level of intensity for some time. One of the many ways to do that is increasing the shock value. The trend is global: you can find it in other forms of culture as well. Hell, even recreational drugs bear that trend.

The amount of grit in Rambo 4 is merely a level up in terms of shock value, because it sells. Joe Moviewatcher is tired of "just" action movies, he needs even more blood. Wait a few months, and you'll see a lot more movies showing "naturalistic" CGI-assisted deaths (in fact, Rambo 4 wasn't even the first in the qualitative aspect, as a few years ago I saw some asian war movie with many deaths portrayed definitely not less naturalistic). And in a few years, you won't even pay any special attention to it anymore.

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 4:23 pm

I understand, but Schwarzenegger can't act, but we love him because he has his place.

Stallone did direct Rambo, which means he's certainly had a lot of impact on the direction of the film. I think from watching it, you can see he wasn't driven by the studio too much. In-fact, the ultra-violent trailer was cut and released by him as an attempt to drum up distibutor interest for the film after it was finished.

doodude · Post by **doodude** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 4:36 pm

Skykid wrote:I understand, but Schwarzenegger can't act, but we love him because he has his place.

Stallone did direct Rambo, which means he's certainly had a lot of impact on the direction of the film. I think from watching it, you can see he wasn't driven by the studio too much. In-fact, the ultra-violent trailer was cut and released by him as an attempt to drum up distibutor interest for the film after it was finished.

I agree that Arnold is no great Thespian either but...his movies ( most IMO ) were actually pretty good & a bit more thoughtful, 'if thoughtful is the correct word', ( a tip to Bertie Wooster

) than Slys stuff.

Now I agree that its all subjective but I just find that Sly's movies are so base that there is nothing enjoyable about them. He should just have a movie where he just goes bonkers, again, & from beginning to end just murders a small city in imaginative ways. And his only lines would be, "uhhhh", "aarrgghhhh" & ADRIAN!!!

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 5:02 pm

You're right dude, I do agree: Arnie got a great share of good scripts, from Total Recall to Predator, his movie's had the kind of imagination that typified some of the best of 80's hollywood. Sly's stuff was very base, I even found it difficult to motivate myself over Rocky, and Rambo lacked the humour (although that could be argued to its credit) and was a bit more basic than a lot of Arnie's sci-fi goodness.

I did very much enjoy Cliffhanger though.

To be honest, if you do have an affection for those action movies of yesteryear, I have a feeling you'll take more away from Rambo 4 than you think you will. I recommend giving it a shot (excuse the pun.)

Be warned though, no matter how many people tell you its the most violent film you've ever seen, there's nothing that can prepare you for the actuality!

doodude · Post by **doodude** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:49 pm

Skykid wrote:You're right dude, I do agree: Arnie got a great share of good scripts, from Total Recall to Predator, his movie's had the kind of imagination that typified some of the best of 80's hollywood. Sly's stuff was very base, I even found it difficult to motivate myself over Rocky, and Rambo lacked the humour (although that could be argued to its credit) and was a bit more basic than a lot of Arnie's sci-fi goodness.

I did very much enjoy Cliffhanger though.

To be honest, if you do have an affection for those action movies of yesteryear, I have a feeling you'll take more away from Rambo 4 than you think you will. I recommend giving it a shot (excuse the pun.)

Be warned though, no matter how many people tell you its the most violent film you've ever seen, there's nothing that can prepare you for the actuality!

I forgot about Cliffhanger, AND...I liked it alot! Thanks for reminding me.

Im sure Ill not see Rambo 4 so not to worry about my tender heart.

Actually one of the reasons I got into Shmups was cuz I was sick of the violent PC games Ive been playing for years so Im trying to avoid violence in the movies too.

Cliffhanger. Who'd a thunk it!?

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:45 pm

doodude wrote:Actually one of the reasons I got into Shmups was cuz I was sick of the violent PC games Ive been playing for years so Im trying to avoid violence in the movies too.

In that case I concur, don't watch it!

shmups.system11.org

POLL: Die Hard 4 or Rambo 4?

DIE HARD 4 or RAMBO 4?

POLL: Die Hard 4 or Rambo 4?