Mushihime-sama or under defeat......

[ForceDevice]

mushi is a terribly broken game in many ways. the scoring system requires really awkward / ridiculous (and complicated) tapping

Well, there's always Original mode for those who don't like doing that.

And even if you play on Maniac/Ultra, you can just ignore the system and play just for fun... which is perfectly possible on Mushi. Unlike DOJ in which the game seems to scream "CHAIN! CHAIN! CHAIN MORE!!!" all the time, even when you only want to have some fun blowin' stuff. -__-

Then again, I was never one to care too much about scoring systems. And if Bigsasquatch doesn't care either, one more reason for him to choose Mushi over UD.

and the collision detection is way, way fubar. you fly through a storm of bullets that in no way you could ever have survived and yet you do survive.

Seriously... ALL cave games since DOJ are like that. >_>

[Arvandor]

It tends to happen when your ship has a 4 pixel square hitbox and almost every single bullet fired at you is smaller than it appears. Every bullet that's a circle with a ring around it, the ring will not kill you. It's just there to make things look thicker I guess. Oh, and those really fat huge circular bullets with a bright glow in the center (like the ones fired at the final pattern of hte first boss), only the little glowly part in the center will kill you. Which means there's a HUGE portion of non-lethal bullet sprite.

[it290]

Under Defeat is a very gorgeous, and very cool game. The simplicity is refreshing at first, and still fun for a run through every now and then, but in all honesty it gets old fast. The pacing is far too slow. Once you start to learn a good path with the missile launcher, you'll find very long stretches in stages where nothing is firing at you.

Video please. It's rather difficult to 100% any of the stages other than the first two, and even then you're pretty much constantly navigating through bullets to target enemies with the secondary weapon.

mushi is a terribly broken game in many ways. the scoring system requires really awkward / ridiculous (and complicated) tapping

Yep. Still great fun, but the screwed up control system takes it down a notch for me.

the amount of lives you've lost on the first stage is the multiplier for the rest of the game(?)

The effect of lives lost on score is almost completely insignificant unless you're playing on a really high level. In fact you can pretty much ignore it completely until you've completely mastered the game (and you probably won't).

Then again, I was never one to care too much about scoring systems. And if Bigsasquatch doesn't care either, one more reason for him to choose Mushi over UD.

Obviously, the same argument could easily be made in reverse. Personally I find little joy in memorizing which type of shot I need to use on each enemy, when to switch fire modes, etc. Personally, all I want to do is figure out how to destroy enemies and dodge fire in the most effective way possible. With UD, all you have to worry about is killing things with your secondary weapon, which allows you to concentrate on the game itself, and not a bunch of minute details related to the scoring system.

The only really good argument I've seen against UD is that it is just as good on Dreamcast, which is true, and for that reason it might be worthwhile going with Mushi. However, in my opinion all the other Cave games you listed are better than Mushi, so why not try the best 'old school' (in name only) shooter to come along in years?

[eretsua]

and the collision detection is way, way fubar. you fly through a storm of bullets that in no way you could ever have survived and yet you do survive.

Seriously... ALL cave games since DOJ are like that. >_>

maybe so but mushihimesama is by far the worst in this regard. guess arvandor is onto something with his explanation. however, just like the broken scoring system, it does not deprive any fun of playing mushi for me. i really love playing mushihimesama.

Well, there's always Original mode for those who don't like doing that.

true that in original mode you don't have that tapping but the bullet patterns the game throws at you are also less pretty / interesting imo. so i don't think it's quite a fair solution. still you can play maniac and ultra without focusing on score and have very good time, like i always do.

the amount of lives you've lost on the first stage is the multiplier for the rest of the game(?)

The effect of lives lost on score is almost completely insignificant unless you're playing on a really high level. In fact you can pretty much ignore it completely until you've completely mastered the game (and you probably won't).

true, true. i just thought i'd mention it considering Bigsasquatch may or may not be interested in playing for such high scores.

[P_HAT]

Mushi PCB
UD DC.

[Bigsasquatch]

Thanks for all the feedback guys.........

Well.... I went ahead and ignored everyones advice and picked up Guwange instead

Couldn't resist getting it when one came my way....... so the Mushi / UD wait wil now be a little longer .....

Still f I want some G-Rev action Border Down Naomi GD is in the post as we speak so it aint all bad news ......

BIG S

[RGC]

Get Guwange...oh

[ForceDevice]

maybe so but mushihimesama is by far the worst in this regard. guess arvandor is onto something with his explanation. however, just like the broken scoring system, it does not deprive any fun of playing mushi for me. i really love playing mushihimesama.

I know, you made that clear enough on your previous post. I just wanted to point that out.

And I still don't think Mushi is any more confused than DOJ and Espgaluda, for example, in terms of collision detection. It happened to me more than once, while playing DOJ 2nd loop, to pass through a HUGE flood of bullets and not die in the process. It was so unbelievable I had to pause the game and check if I still had the same number of lives as before, just to make sure I didn't die without noticing.

true that in original mode you don't have that tapping but the bullet patterns the game throws at you are also less pretty / interesting imo. so i don't think it's quite a fair solution. still you can play maniac and ultra without focusing on score and have very good time, like i always do.

Totally agree to that. Bullet patterns are kinda simple and uninteresting on Original mode, which is why I stick with Maniac most of the time.

And to Bigsasquatch:

Get Guwange...oh

[subcons]

Ha. I think most all of us would have just told you to get Guwange anyways if that was the case.

I would have.

[Plasmo]

great topic

[Tigershark]

Interesting read.

I have UD and I know what people mean when they say it gets boring. The funny thing is it really looks as though it shouldn't be boring but I too find that by the third stage I've had enough.

BTW I have a sealed copy if someone wants to make an offer in the UK.

[subcons]

I have UD and I know what people mean when they say it gets boring. The funny thing is it really looks as though it shouldn't be boring but I too find that by the third stage I've had enough.

It's all a matter of taste and personal point of view. I like my shooters more simplistic and straightforward sometimes. Plus, I love helicopters. Zero Gunner 2 is still one of my all-time favs.

In the end though, the 1:1 DC port argument is a good one.

[Rob]

I went ahead and ignored everyones advice

Every "recommend a game" thread ever.

[Arvandor]

Well.... I went ahead and ignored everyones advice and picked up Guwange instead

Haha, excellent. If you'd mentioned Guwange, I would have indeed suggested that over both UD and Mushi.

[-Bridget-]

Guwange certainly isnt a bad choice at all, I say


I personally wouldnt actually pay for it..... but that's cause I'm totally fine with simply using Mame. Dang PCBs cost too much for something I cant just have emulated or on the PS2.

Very fun game though, a bit strange...... but it has the only comboing/chaining system from Cave that I *dont* dislike.

Very difficult. And walls..... gah to walls.



If you go to get another one later on, though, when you have more money.....


I'll 2nd what alot have said here, and say Mushi is very worth buying. I have it on PS2, and it's easily one of my favorite shmups ever, and one of the things that got me sucked into the genre.

Though, I dont bother playing that for score.... the scoring system is kinda stupid, as far as I see it. Super-memorization-chaining doesnt, to me, make for a fun scoring system, and the whole "hit buttons alot" for banking is just danged annoying.... where's the skill in that?

Other than that though, the game is absolutely superb.



Oh, Progear is another great one, from Cave. And certainly very unique, as their games go.

[ForceDevice]

Oh, Progear is another great one, from Cave. And certainly very unique, as their games go.

QFT

[it290]

Though, I dont bother playing that for score.... the scoring system is kinda stupid, as far as I see it. Super-memorization-chaining doesnt, to me, make for a fun scoring system, and the whole "hit buttons alot" for banking is just danged annoying.... where's the skill in that?

Other than that though, the game is absolutely superb.

So, other than the scoring system (which is pretty much the core of the gameplay, at least for me), the game is absolutely superb? I don't think it's terrible by any means, but it would have been far better without all that nonsense.

[D]

Depends on price really.
You can get the Dreamcast UD version which is like 1:1. Get the vga box for the dreamcast and hook that up to your AW.

UD in a cab will blow you away. The music, sound effects and explosions are great. Never played Mushi, so I sould not say.