Best horizontal shmup on Saturn?

[J-Manic]

You're not missing much. Thunder Force V is more a fan service than it is a competent game. Its design is well below that of TF III/AC/IV and, aside from a couple of levels towards the end, it really isn't all that interesting.

I'd have to disagree with that...especially the latter stages which were well designed and had solid gameplay. The first few stages although great looking, were a little short...but the last few stages more than made up for it.

I totally agree, especially with the last stage. What a unique design that was for a stage. Complete genius, as if you were actually inside a super computer (was that intentional?).

[BIL]

Yeah, the stage was called Guardian's Heart, iirc. Incredible atmosphere in those last few stages. "Electric Mind" is a brilliant ominous song. I think the rather basic, materialising polygon "crystals" actually looked great in that context, too.

[Rob]

Sengoku Blade. Not the greatest Psikyo game by any stretch, but beats that lot. PS had much better side-scrollers (console warz go here).

[Andi]

I hadn't played Gaiden in a while, and this thread inspired me to have another go.

Played a few credits and I can't say that I'm inspired enough to play any more.

Bland level design, cheap bullet spamming, weapons that have little weight or substance, even when powered up.

I don't know, I rather like the levels. There is a nice variety of open and more cave-like levels. Most of them have some sort of interesting gimmick (biological, underwater, flying through a tube, etc.). And, there are some clever moments of stillness with sudden, surprise attacks. And since the boss fights last a while, it feels like half of the game is boss fighting anyway.

[lawnspic]

What has been said about TFV in this thread is sacralidge. Yes JP your gonna burn for that. Anyway a very good game IMO, flaming that title here makes no sense as it always ranked well here as a whole, One of my favorites.

[Rob]

JP said it about a Technosoft game so it must be true and it is.

[Koa Zo]

Sega Ages: Fantasy Zone

I hadn't played Gaiden in a while, and this thread inspired me to have another go.

Played a few credits and I can't say that I'm inspired enough to play any more.

Bland level design, cheap bullet spamming, weapons that have little weight or substance, even when powered up.

Bosses are kind of cool, so is the music- except you can barely hear it on the Saturn.

I'd say TF5 or Sengoku Blade.

I concur.

[jp]

What has been said about TFV in this thread is sacralidge. Yes JP your gonna burn for that. Anyway a very good game IMO, flaming that title here makes no sense as it always ranked well here as a whole, One of my favorites.

Look man, I'm one of the most hardcore Tecno Soft fanboys you're going to find, and I'm sorry, but TFV was not a well made game. The people that actually made Tecno Soft great had no hand in it, and it shows.

I mean, yes, the last few levels are really neat. Like, "OMG THIS IS SO COOL!" neat. Especially if you're really into Tecno Soft. But the gameplay as a whole is severely lacking when held up to their previous titles. The bullet patterns (and I use the term "bullet patterns" oh so loosely) are incredibly poor, the overall designs of the enemies and bosses, outside of the homages and some of the stuff at the end, are really lame (although it WAS 32-bit 3D graphics, I'll give you that), the scoring system is an abomination, and even the music doesn't quite reach the level of TFIII/AC/IV/Hyper Duel/Blast Wind (not like anything reaches Blast Wind music wise though).

The best thing about TFV was its story. And that was virtually all it really had going for it. Outside of that its a really sloppy game that, in all honesty, doesn't feel that much like a true Tecno Soft game to me. I mean, its neat, but as someone who grew up with Tecno Soft and also holds Hyper Duel and Blast Wind in the highest of regards, I cannot see Thunder Force V as a game worthy of being called one of Tecno Soft's better shmups. It just isn't that well put together and aside from the "cool" aspect of flying through space with a giant laser cannon attached to your ship and fighting Rynex, it just doesn't have the speed and solid level design of Tecno Soft's other games.

[Rob]

The best thing about TFV was its story. And that was virtually all it really had going for it.

Expansion of the overweapon idea (if you consider the charge attack in TF4 the root of it) and draining CRAWs.

[jp]

I really wasn't a fan of how they did CRAWs in TFV truth be told. I much preferred how everything worked out in TFIV to be perfectly honest.

[Thunder Force]

Thunder Force V on Saturn is one of those classics that is better than the sum of its parts. It's just a great cohesive sci-fi shooter. Memorable boss designs, cool level progression, fun-to-use weapons systems, perfect music, TFIII-like gameplay that is non-frustrating yet still manages to maintain a retro feel, and a real narrative to hold things together.

Sits proudly alongside other epic horis of its time like G-Darius and R-Type Delta. You just have to overlook the technical limitations of the early 3D hardware it was running on.

(and finally the inferior PS port has justified its existence - as a pocket version that runs great on PSP)

[JoshF]

and a real narrative to hold things together

He died three times, and was reborn twice.

[Thunder Force]

He died three times, and was reborn twice.

The living creatures of this planet will continue to [rejoice in/fear] battle and [die in/live by] combat.

The existence of Vambrace will once again cause humanity to embrace mass death and destruction, just as Vasteel did.

[BrianC]

Looks like the PSX version of "Fantastic Journey" in the EU Parodius is censored too. Here is the PSX video. Here's is the EU Saturn Parodius "Fantasic Journey" video again. Again, "parrots" instead of eagles, though technically they are just recolored eagles. Telling from the videos, it looks like both are well optimized for EU, despite being stuck in 50 Hz (as far as I know anyway).

Edit: The PSX video on youtube just used an odd aspect ratio. Confusing.

I haven't played the other Parodius games on Saturn (aside from the MSX one in the MSX collection), but I definitely recommend the JP Deluxe Pack. It's worth it for Gokujo alone (though Da isn't bad either), which I feel is one of the best horis out there. The Parodius Deluxe Pack is also rather inexpensive and can be found for as cheap as 15-25 dollars.

I really wasn't a fan of how they did CRAWs in TFV truth be told. I much preferred how everything worked out in TFIV to be perfectly honest.

Not CRAW, CLAW! I love Get Smart!

[jp]

Gokujyo Parodius is indeed good stuff.

[captain ahar]

what's the going rate on Hyper Duel these days? there are a couple on Ebay for the retarded sum of $250+

i gotta try that Saturn mode

[Enhasa]

Sengoku Blade. Not the greatest Psikyo game by any stretch, but beats that lot. PS had much better side-scrollers (console warz go here).

I never thought about it in terms of verts and horis before, but actually I agree, I don't think it's close. G-Darius, R-Type Delta, Einhander, Harmful Park, Gradius Gaiden, what else? Hell, DG and the Parodius games are on PS1 too I think. For side-scrolling non shmups, I'd have to think about it for more than 5 seconds.

Honestly, the PS1 and PS2 have incredibly deep and underrated libraries. I've played even the really crappy level games on N64 and GC, whereas I know there are probably lots of great PS1/2 games out there I haven't played yet, and I've played a ton already.

[BrianC]

DG and the Parodius games are on PS1 too I think.

DG got the better port on Saturn, though. Parodius turned out well on both systems (and PSX Chatting Parodius may be slightly better due to a unique extra mode using polygons), but I heard the Deluxe Pack is better on Saturn. DG and Parodius Deluxe are also cheaper on Saturn (though not by too much with Parodius). But yeah, PSX has some nice horis, especially Gradius Gaiden.

[jp]

what's the going rate on Hyper Duel these days? there are a couple on Ebay for the retarded sum of $250+

i gotta try that Saturn mode

No clue. Last I saw it was $150-180. But this was months (maybe even a year) ago.



Also, I went back and played TFV, and I must admit that on some points I was wrong.
The music is just as awesome as it is in other Tecno Soft games. Also, the designs are alright.

Other than that, I still see the game as a sloppy mess.

[it290]

TFV would have been so much better if there was an actual reason to use more than one weapon through 99% of the game. Using the right weapon at the right time has always been a hallmark of the series, and that aspect was pretty much completely eliminated in TFV.

[jp]

Yeah, Free Range kinda breaks the game completely.

[Herr Schatten]

Looks like the PSX version of "Fantastic Journey" in the EU Parodius is censored too. Here is the PSX video. Here's is the EU Saturn Parodius "Fantasic Journey" video again. Again, "parrots" instead of eagles, though technically they are just recolored eagles. Telling from the videos, it looks like both are well optimized for EU, despite being stuck in 50 Hz (as far as I know anyway).

Interesting. I never noticed this. I just thought they recoloured the eagles so they don't look as much as a rehashed Parodius Da!-Boss (which they are, after all). You can hardly call this censorship, as it never occured to me that the eagles are supposed to be parrots.

So the sprites in your jp version are normal brown?

[BrianC]

Looks like the PSX version of "Fantastic Journey" in the EU Parodius is censored too. Here is the PSX video. Here's is the EU Saturn Parodius "Fantasic Journey" video again. Again, "parrots" instead of eagles, though technically they are just recolored eagles. Telling from the videos, it looks like both are well optimized for EU, despite being stuck in 50 Hz (as far as I know anyway).

Interesting. I never noticed this. I just thought they recoloured the eagles so they don't look as much as a rehashed Parodius Da!-Boss (which they are, after all). You can hardly call this censorship, as it never occured to me that the eagles are supposed to be parrots.

So the sprites in your jp version are normal brown?

yes. Brown and white.

[DC906270]

might be just me , but i have trouble distinguishing the bullets and enemies from the bakgrounds when playing TFV, which put me off the game initially, and ive never gotten into it, really

[Koa Zo]

Yeah, Free Range kinda makes the game completely.

fixed

Getting point-blank kills for the 16x multiplier with the Free Range was the most fun I had through the entire 32-bit generation!

[elbarto]

Again, "parrots" instead of eagles, though technically they are just recolored eagles.

Nice to know there are still things about the series I wasn't aware of, having hardly played the Euro 32-bit versions.

+1 to the recommendations for the Parodius & Gradius Deluxe packs, Chatting Parodius, and Hyper Duel.

[Neon]

Sengoku Blade. Not the greatest Psikyo game by any stretch, but beats that lot. PS had much better side-scrollers (console warz go here).

Yeah, probably this or Sexy Parodius.

I sold Thunderforce 5 a long time ago, haven't missed it.

[J-Manic]

I'm one of the most hardcore Tecno Soft fanboys you're going to find

Same goes for me.

[ROBOTRON]

Metal Black is really good.

FINALLY!

I got a sealed Metal Black with spine card today:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0101440120

I'M ALL IN........