What SHMUPS are actually "too short"?

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:35 pm

Ozymandiaz1260 wrote:surprised when I'm already flying into the next level.

Surprises you? Their formula is practically unchanging regarding level length and they don't often do midbosses. A midboss is a surprise. If they were midbosses they'd be the best ever.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:43 pm

Varth.

Also, another vote for "Psikyo's stages are just the right length." It actually didn't occur to me it was possible to vote "too short" on them.

Post by **Shatterhand** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:43 pm

They do have a midboss in some 1-5 levels, don't they?

Oh, Ozy, I hope you don't get offended by the "shut up" comment, it wasn't serious, The closest I got to 1ccing a Psikyo shmup was reaching 1-8 in both Strikers II and Strikers 1945 +

ForceDevice · Post by **ForceDevice** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:52 pm

Shatterhand wrote:The closest I got to 1ccing a Psikyo shmup was reaching 1-8 in both Strikers II and Strikers 1945 +

You should try Sengoku Ace then. If you managed to reach 1-8 on Strikers II on one credit, you'll find Ace easy as hell.

dpful · Post by **dpful** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:53 pm

Giga wing 2 really needs another level.

It goes:

Fun, fun, fun, boss, boss, boss, over

Post by **Shatterhand** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:55 pm

I've played Senkoku Ace a lot before playing Strikers II, I couldn't beat 1-6 if I remember correctly.

And I've spent a LOT of time on Strikers II to actually reach 1-8... but to be quite honest, I feel my shmups skills today are better than they were 2 years ago, so I guess you are right... maybe I could 1cc Ace easily nowadays

MathU · Post by **MathU** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:33 pm

My only complaint about length ever arises when stages or whole games are too long.

indstr · Post by **indstr** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:39 pm

what about the first level in battle bakraid, it lasts about 20 seconds before you get to the boss

lgb · Post by **lgb** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:54 pm

MathU wrote:My only complaint about length ever arises when stages or whole games are too long.

Cough cough Compile, cough cough, etc.

Oh, and Psikyo games are a bit short in the beginning; Sengoku Ace's stage 5 is a good length.

Aero Fighters 3 will make you forget that though.

ROBOTRON · Post by **ROBOTRON** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:20 am

BLAST WIND.

Dang as soon as I got into it...it was over.

doctorx0079 · Post by **doctorx0079** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:37 am

Neko Shot.

Battlesmurf · Post by **Battlesmurf** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:19 am

that one game on PSX comes to mind- (name currently escapes me)- the one with REALLY good music- but very easy and uber $$.......

EDIT- slept, woke up- had breakfast- remembered "Gaia Seed" : )

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:35 am

shienryu explosion? g-darius? something else?

Enhasa · Post by **Enhasa** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:30 am

Ha, good music is subjective, that doesn't really narrow it down. Still, might as well guess. Harmful Park?

I try not to +1 when I just agree with the majority opinion anyway (most threads), but since I'm posting already, I really can't think of a shmup where I thought the stages or the game itself was too short. And caravan modes and boss rush modes are great. I think a perfect stage length is like first stage of Batrider. You got some popcorn, some scoring tricks, build up your item chain, ok now it's boss time.

J-Manic · Post by **J-Manic** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:17 am

I agree with ROBOTRON. Blast Wind is way too short. But it still holds my interest enough to keep going back to it.

Giga Wing seems short to me. I always fly thru that game.

ROBOTRON · Post by **ROBOTRON** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:55 am

J-Manic wrote:I agree with ROBOTRON. Blast Wind is way too short. But it still holds my interest enough to keep going back to it.

Giga Wing seems short to me. I always fly thru that game.

Same here, difficulty adjustments made it more challenging, but its still too short.

320x240 · Post by **320x240** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:05 am

I believe a well designed game will never be too short, but will often feel short because of it.

moozooh · Post by **moozooh** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:12 am

320x240 wrote:I believe a well designed game will never be too short, but will often feel short because of it.

That's a good point. The opposite to it is the intensity of action. The more balls-to-the-wall it is, the longer it will seem even if it only lasts like 15-20 minutes.

Kiken · Post by **Kiken** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:13 pm

dpful wrote:Giga wing 2 really needs another level.

It goes:

Fun, fun, fun, boss, boss, boss, over

Apparently your copy is missing stage 4.

I've never really seen the problem with Giga Wing 2's layout. You get 3 medium length levels, followed by a really long level, followed by a short boss battle, followed by two increasingly lengthier boss battles. The whole thing takes close to a half hour to get through.

Post by **spadgy** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:27 pm

Enhasa wrote:Ha, good music is subjective, that doesn't really narrow it down. Still, might as well guess. Harmful Park?

I try not to +1 when I just agree with the majority opinion anyway (most threads), but since I'm posting already, I really can't think of a shmup where I thought the stages or the game itself was too short. And caravan modes and boss rush modes are great. I think a perfect stage length is like first stage of Batrider. You got some popcorn, some scoring tricks, build up your item chain, ok now it's boss time.

I like that about the super short first stages that open the Pysvariar games. Just a little popcorn opening to get you gagging for a full on stage...

evil_ash_xero · Post by **evil_ash_xero** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:30 pm

Rob wrote:
evil_ash_xero wrote:Psikyo's game's stages are too short.
You don't get Psikyo.

Guess not. I know you're a diehard defender of them, but i'm not even talking about liking or disliking their games here. I just think their stages are too short. Not as short as Psyvariar's, but still.

I just started this thread after playing Psyvariar 2, Giga Wing 2, and Zero Gunner 2, and thought which shooters are actually too short. And not in the "mainstream reviewer" way. I mean in OUR way. Psyvariar I would probably actually like if it's stages weren't so miniscule. Giga Wing 2 would be better if it had a couple more stages. It's overall playing time is too short, but the stages are of decent length. Great presentation.

I don't think Gradius V is too long. The game is about an hour, yeah, but it constantly keeps me interested. Radiant Silvergun(Saturn mode) is too long for me, because it kinda drags on and on with the boss fights.

s/m

evil_ash_xero · Post by **evil_ash_xero** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:33 pm

indstr wrote:what about the first level in battle bakraid, it lasts about 20 seconds before you get to the boss

That's probably the shortest level i've ever played. I guess they played 19xx's first level and thought "we can top that".

s/m

Plasmo · Post by **Plasmo** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:39 pm

Most shmups have just about the perfect length. Everything between 17-30mins is ok.
And it doesn't matter if some Psikyo levels are too short - there's always the second loop. (strikers 99 1-7 is the only level where I really think it could be a bit longer)
Cave 2-Loop games are too long imo, I don't have the concentration for that.

J-Manic · Post by **J-Manic** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:22 pm

I have to mention Gunbird 2. I played it this morning and I have to say. The game is pretty damn short. I don't know if it was just me being half asleep or what. I swear it felt like I flew thru the game within 15 minutes. I guess dodging all of those fast waves of bullets made the time fly by.

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:01 pm

J-Manic wrote:I have to mention Gunbird 2. I played it this morning and I have to say. The game is pretty damn short. I don't know if it was just me being half asleep or what. I swear it felt like I flew thru the game within 15 minutes. I guess dodging all of those fast waves of bullets made the time fly by.

Time flies when you're having fun. Why don't you submit a score in the high-score thread?

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:02 pm

evil_ash_xero wrote: Guess not. I know you're a diehard defender of them, but i'm not even talking about liking or disliking their games here. I just think their stages are too short. Not as short as Psyvariar's, but still.

The point is they're all that is good about stage-based shooters and stripped of more nonsense and repetition than anything else. Little time is wasted on warm-ups or glorified scoring opportunities. They're only too short if you like filler.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:09 pm

professor ganson wrote: Time flies when you're having fun. Why don't you submit a score in the high-score thread?

I adjust to everything moving fast, which makes a 12 minute game feel long (the length of one round of Dragon Blaze - I swear it feels longer, that article in "the zone" thread should be a clue). And I always end up wanting to play for 30-60 minutes.

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:59 pm

Rob wrote: They're only too short if you like filler.

Nicely put. And what's more, you can actually lose something by adding filler. The sense of order in chaos is going to be much stronger when things are less sprawling and tighter.

PC Engine Fan X! · Post by **PC Engine Fan X!** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:43 pm

professor ganson wrote:
Rob wrote: They're only too short if you like filler.
Nicely put. And what's more, you can actually lose something by adding filler. The sense of order in chaos is going to be much stronger when things are less sprawling and tighter.

Isn't this what Cave strives for in their arcade shmup PCB titles? It must be interesting to sit on a Cave staff "round table" discussion to see what makes such a stage "gel or get tossed out" and back to the drawing board + the fine tuning of "bullet hell" patterns for the virgin Cave arcade player to discover & try to ace...

And does Cave staff consult with ace Japanese shmup players like TAC-Clover, WIZ, ZBL-NAI as to what include in such stages for their upcoming arcade shmup PCB titles?

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

Nuke · Post by **Nuke** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:42 pm

I'll give you short! Gatchaman the Shooting on the psx. It's also ridiculously easy, I 1cc it on my first go, and I never 1cc games...

shmups.system11.org

What SHMUPS are actually "too short"?

Re: What SHMUPS are actually "too short"?

Re: What SHMUPS are actually "too short"?

What's "too short"?

What does Cave staff do to make stages for their PCBs?