Why do/did you want to learn Japanese?

JoshF · Post by **JoshF** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:32 pm

I forgot you don't understand acronyms. MNC means multinational corporation. If you still don't get it, I'm saying blame the Chinese government.

Michaelm · Post by **Michaelm** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:35 pm

JoshF wrote:I forgot you don't understand acronyms. MNC means multinational corporation. If you still don't get it, I'm saying blame the Chinese government.

I forgot you don't understand people understanding very well what you said.
If you still don't get it.... Don't blame those Mexicans but the ones that employ them.

JoshF · Post by **JoshF** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:38 pm

Why are we talking about Mexicans?

When did I start blaming any race? You might have me confused with Constant Kusters.

I wasn't trying to insult you either, it's reasonable that non-native English speakers would not know a bunch of acronyms.

Ligersknight · Post by **Ligersknight** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:46 pm

Isnt japanese one of the hardest lnguages to learn?

moozooh · Post by **moozooh** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 3:02 pm

Ligersknight wrote:Isnt japanese one of the hardest lnguages to learn? :shock:

Hardest, unlikely. Unfriendly, very much. Most of it is due to its retarded writing system (part of the fact that there are three different types of scripts that aren't completely interchangeable in their usage; the kanji can't even be read unambiguously in many cases, even by native speakers). Other difficulty is the illogical sentence structure that can confuse everyone quite easily, but I don't think this is unique to Japanese. These are the reasons I'm not keen on studying Japanese, but I would like to, some time in the future. I'd also like to visit Tokyo some time later, just to see what it's all about (and obviously play in a few arcades, haha).

JoshF wrote:I remember learning katakana by going through the movelists in Fighters Megamix.

Haha, I've had a similar experience. You wouldn't believe how Diablo 2 can expand one's vocabulary, especially in regards to synonyms.

CIT · Post by **CIT** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:27 am

Ligersknight wrote:Isnt japanese one of the hardest lnguages to learn?

That depends on what languages you already know. If you're a Korean speaker, it will be very easy to learn Japanese.

If you speak English - quite tough, yes!

JoshF · Post by **JoshF** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:19 am

I found it very easy language to learn in most cases. There are no sounds that I couldn't pronounce (although there's supposed to be a trick to "fu" that I forget. I think you inhale or don't touch your lips or something so it sounds somewhere between "fu" and "hu".) The "r" sound thankfully requires only one roll, if it was like a Spanish "r" I would've given up on day one. Kanji memorization is the main problem, and knowing this you can imagine how much more difficult Chinese would be.

UnscathedFlyingObject · Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:47 am

Kanji isn't that hard to learn. As long as you keep up constant effort (an hour of practice a day at least,) you can pretty much get all 1945 general use Kanji down in two years.

Speaking well and not making an ass of yourself most of the time is much much harder for me. I know a lot of sentence patterns and words but putting together well formed sentences that won't make someone laugh is a damn challenge.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:31 am

moozooh wrote: Hardest, unlikely. Unfriendly, very much. Most of it is due to its retarded writing system (part of the fact that there are three different types of scripts that aren't completely interchangeable in their usage; the kanji can't even be read unambiguously in many cases, even by native speakers). Other difficulty is the illogical sentence structure that can confuse everyone quite easily, but I don't think this is unique to Japanese. These are the reasons I'm not keen on studying Japanese, but I would like to, some time in the future. I'd also like to visit Tokyo some time later, just to see what it's all about (and obviously play in a few arcades, haha).

Hmm... not very accurate:
-The three scripts are most definitely not interchangeable. There are clearly rules of what to use when. The most breathing room given on when to use or not use kanji
-Reading and written Japanese is not an ambiguous by native speakers. It seems that way to foreigners, but they know what they're talking about as long as there's context.

Kanji isn't that hard to learn. As long as you keep up constant effort (an hour of practice a day at least,) you can pretty much get all 1945 general use Kanji down in two years.

But that gets you basically nowhere. What's better know? 2000 roots of words, or a larger combination of words made by those roots? Learn to talk, then learn the kanji. Makes life (and learning) easier. Or obviously a combination as you go. It's nice to know the kanji for words you know, but knowing kanji for words you don't know (or more importantly, can't use) aren't much help.

UnscathedFlyingObject · Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:48 am

GaijinPunch wrote:
Kanji isn't that hard to learn. As long as you keep up constant effort (an hour of practice a day at least,) you can pretty much get all 1945 general use Kanji down in two years.
But that gets you basically nowhere. What's better know? 2000 roots of words, or a larger combination of words made by those roots? Learn to talk, then learn the kanji. Makes life (and learning) easier. Or obviously a combination as you go. It's nice to know the kanji for words you know, but knowing kanji for words you don't know (or more importantly, can't use) aren't much help.

Hey, I never said I only know the characters. I know at least one compound with each Kanji I know (often more than that), and I'm working on learning a lot more. I don't get to talk to people much (especially now that I'm outta class 'cause I'm job hunting.) However, I read a lot and constantly go through my textbooks.

Ok, I can't use much of the vocab I know, but at least, I can understand what I read.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:59 am

I guess the it depends on what you want to do more: converse or read. You can't bust out a kanji when you're stuck in a conversation... no matter how hard you want to!

I've just seen people go way, way too kanji heavy. They know what they mean and they can write them, but they can't string a sentence together (even written quite often). It is the exact same thing the Japanese education system is lambasted for. They teach kids all sorts of English bullshit on paper, but they can't talk to save their lives.

UnscathedFlyingObject · Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:12 am

I believe you're right man. Afterall, I ain't got a lot of actual experience with the language, just lots and lots of book learning.

I'm probably going a little Kanji heavy myself. My study time is roughly divided into 50% writing new words and 50% learning different grammatical structure and sentence patterns. I'm almost ashamed of saying that I actually enjoy sitting down and writing for an hour and a half a day

. Hell, sometimes I neglect reading my textbooks entirely.

moozooh · Post by **moozooh** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:50 am

GaijinPunch wrote:-Reading and written Japanese is not an ambiguous by native speakers. It seems that way to foreigners, but they know what they're talking about as long as there's context.

Oh? I got that impression from numerous "how to read your name" type of questions referenced in various media. I've also read it on this forum that Japanese youth tends to have problems with kanji (not surprising, though).

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:59 am

Sometimes I find "shitsureeshimas" a tongue-twister to say on demand, although right now it's no problem. Obviously, I wouldn't say it like most students who say SHIT SU etc. (gotta drop them vowels or else it's embarrassing).

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 5:27 am

moozooh wrote: Oh? I got that impression from numerous "how to read your name" type of questions referenced in various media. I've also read it on this forum that Japanese youth tends to have problems with kanji (not surprising, though).

Go to a Counter Strike server and tell me those kids aren't struggling with English. It's not b/c the language is ambiguous. It's b/c kids are either a) stupid, b) lazy asses and don't study, or c) think it's cool to look like a moron.

Adults have a hard time with kanji (writing them) these days but you can blame the personal computer for that. You'll never remember to write them unless you're writing them all the time. W/ a computer, you just never write them.

"how to read your name"

Names can be a bit tricky, that is quite true.

Segafan4life · Post by **Segafan4life** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 5:56 am

I do not want to learn japanese. I want to learn chinese!

Herr Schatten · Post by **Herr Schatten** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 7:44 am

Segafan4life wrote:I do not want to learn japanese. I want to learn chinese!

Go for it!

ED-057 · Post by **ED-057** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:19 am

Option 1 is it. I maintain a minimal level of competence in the language via import games, DVDs, music, and the internetz. I doubt that I know anything about even half of the jouyou kanji. For a short while I had the idea of working toward fluency but I soon realized that I have enough trouble as it is with my native language! (You wouldn't believe how long it can take me just to write a post like this one.)

greg · Post by **greg** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:07 pm

PROMETHEUS wrote:what the heck is a weaboo ?

Weeaboo=Japanophile. This is a weeaboo. The guy asking this question is a total weeaboo. People who practically worship Japan are weeaboos (link NSFW). People who go out of their way to emulate Japanese behavior, go around doing stupid stuff like eating french fries with chopsticks, saying the same limited Japanese vocabulary words ad nauseam (often mispronounced too), cling to whatever Japanese fad is going on, and who view Japan as some utopia are weeaboos.

About a month ago, here in Phoenix we had the annual Japanese cultural festival (erroneously named "Matsuri" even though it doesn't really resemble a real matsuri). These festivals are a weeaboo nightmare, like ants attracted to honey or something. I saw this group of girls walking with these psychotically creepy-looking dolls. I have no idea what they were called, but I they looked like they were from some creepy horror movie.

Let me point out that if you like anime and Japanese culture, study the language, and want to visit Japan does not automatically make you a weeaboo. There's a big difference in liking Japanese stuff and trying to practically become Japanese because you think Japan is some kingdom of mystical wonderland or a cave with magical wonders to behold when you enter. If you study Japanese history and society and know more than ten words in the language and can pronounce them properly, then you are far ahead of your typical weeaboo.

As for me, I was interested in Japan for many other reasons than just anime and video games. However, anime and video games are good motivations to continue studying the language.

If money is your fuel, studying Japanese language for profiting is probably not your top choice. Learning Hindi or whatever so that you can sell out jobs back home to India would be profitable, and learning Chinese to create cheaply made and dangerous products for your company by factory workers and/or political prisoners so that the fat morons back home can save a few bucks at Wal Mart would also be a shrewd choice.

Hey, as a total Japanese non-sequitir, everybody check out this bizarre Youtube link. It has nothing to do with the topic at hand, but if Michaelm can troll against capitalism here and get away with it, I want to add this in here too. This is some of the most psychotic Japanese stuff you'll see, and it's enough to make you like the country even more.

Neon · Post by **Neon** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:45 pm

http://pbfcomics.com/?cid=PBF071-Weeaboo.gif

Weeaboo!

greg · Post by **greg** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:48 pm

Neon wrote:http://pbfcomics.com/?cid=PBF071-Weeaboo.gif

Weeaboo!

I totally don't get it.

Web comics: the anti-LOL

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:30 pm

Other: Because learning and mastering a language is good for your brain. Especially as you're getting older.

CStarFlare · Post by **CStarFlare** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:10 pm

Specineff wrote:Other: Because learning and mastering a language is good for your brain. Especially as you're getting older.

This. There are a large number of students (and teachers) who know 2+ languages at my college, and I know one. I'd like to catch up a bit. I have an interest in Japanese specifically because it is relevant to many of my interests.

Right now I'm in a "if the chance ever comes along I'd take it" phase, but I'm not actively pursuing anything because I hardly do my homework as it is.

I've been to China and developed an interest in learning Chinese as well, but the tones in spoken Chinese kind of scared me away.

FIL · Post by **FIL** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:53 pm

greg wrote:
Neon wrote:http://pbfcomics.com/?cid=PBF071-Weeaboo.gif

Weeaboo!
I totally don't get it.

Web comics: the anti-LOL

Its a 4chan thing. At one point "wapanese" was wordfiltered to weeaboo on /b/.

MX7 · Post by **MX7** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:00 pm

FIL wrote:
greg wrote:
Neon wrote:http://pbfcomics.com/?cid=PBF071-Weeaboo.gif

Weeaboo!
I totally don't get it.

Web comics: the anti-LOL
Its a 4chan thing. At one point "wapanese" was wordfiltered to weeaboo on /b/.

Exactly. And for some reason it was a particularly popular filter. I'm still surprised to see it used more than wapanese these days. Lol, 4chan.

Also the Perry Bible Fellowship is certainly NOT a web comic. It's syndacated around the world in numerous national papers.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:59 pm

I saw this group of girls walking with these psychotically creepy-looking dolls. I have no idea what they were called, but I they looked like they were from some creepy horror movie.

Real dolls?

If money is your fuel, studying Japanese language for profiting is probably not your top choice.

I whole-heartedly disagree. Well, "best" who knows. If you want to live in Japan for any extended period and do something other than teach English, unless you're a rock star at what you do (likely not) proficiency in the language helps. I've known many people with a little business experience, who are very intelligent people, but lose jobs to bilinguals.

One of my teachers gave me some song and dance about how I'd be going up against true bilinguals and I didn't have a prayer, yada yada yada. I got my first job with zero experience b/c I could speak Japanese. The rest, is history.

It's probably not terribly marketable back home though.

I'd love to see some numbers on people taking Japanese in college though. When I was in school, my biggest Japanese class was 20 students. Campus had about 50,000.

Post by **nZero** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:16 am

FIL wrote:
greg wrote:
Neon wrote:http://pbfcomics.com/?cid=PBF071-Weeaboo.gif

Weeaboo!
I totally don't get it.

Web comics: the anti-LOL
Its a 4chan thing. At one point "wapanese" was wordfiltered to weeaboo on /b/.

Not to mention, the 4chan wordfilter came from the comic, not the other way around.

doodude · Post by **doodude** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 5:23 am

http://coscom.co.jp/basicjapanese/e_basic01.html

greg · Post by **greg** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 6:29 am

GaijinPunch wrote:
I saw this group of girls walking with these psychotically creepy-looking dolls. I have no idea what they were called, but I they looked like they were from some creepy horror movie.
Real dolls?

No, these were chicks dressed up in typical "Japanese girls with zero fashion sense" clothing. Pseudo goth-loli, but not quite because goth-loli actually seems to make sense in a fashion sense. No, I can't imagine actuall girls lugging around "real dolls." These creepy things looked like ventriloquist dummies or something, but smaller and thinner, and very pale. The dolls were wearing the same type of dark clothing the girls were. The faces on the dolls weren't very realistic looking, but they didn't look anime-inspired either. The way these four or five girls were holding the dolls made me think of ventriloquists, but that's not what they were for. Bizarre crap. I swear i'd seen something like that in a horror movie before where dolls come to life and kill people, like that one flick with Rip Torn in Mexico and these Aztec ghosts possess these dolls or something. It was so freaking weird looking and I suppress the desire to simultaneously laugh and scream in horror.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:46 am

No, I can't imagine actuall girls lugging around "real dolls."

That would actually make more sense. The Charlie doll is packin'!