poll: anybody else play ps2 shmup ports with a keyboard?

[indstr]

yes, i fully expect to be ridiculed because of this

for some odd reason, when my gamepad broke a couple of months ago, and i was jonesing for some dodonpachi, i randomly decided to try it with keyboard on MAME, and almost instantly realized that i highly preferred this method of input (probably due to many many hours of playing doom and hexen with the numpad for movement)

when i got a ps2, one of the accessories i got with it was this:


it's called "max shooter" for ps2

yeah, keyboard and mouse on playstation 2, you can remap any keyboard key to any gamepad button.

it's pretty sweet and works like a dream

[JoshF]

severe disadvantage

[indstr]

if you're going to say something about it being more difficult to play hori's that require precise movement, as opposed to verts... no. not for me. i have a finger on all 4 direction keys at once, so i have no such problem.

maybe i shouldn't have started this thread as it invites the discussion which i'm sure has been repeated dozens of times on these forums: "which input device is better". i'm not even going there, i was just interested to see if there was anybody else weird like me

[Arvandor]

If I have a laptop with some shooters on hand, and no controller/joystick, I'll suffer the keyboard, but I don't pretend to like it.

I know Prometheus, this forums highest scoring DDP player (by a longshot) uses keyboard.

[Dave_K.]

Prome superstar!!!!!!!!!!

keyboard WIN!!!!

[Udderdude]

Dude, that's so leet. Check out the keyboard I've been using to play shmups lately ..

[JoshF]

Indstr could you post a video of yourself doing small circles with a keyboard compared to a joystick or pad?

[DefaultGen]

I've probably played more TouHou Project than any other shooter (besides perhaps Ikaruga), so I have no problem with a KB. If I get an HRAP2 and don't like it i'll consider a KB adapter

[indstr]

Dude, that's so leet. Check out the keyboard I've been using to play shmups lately ..

Lol udderdude, i was actually thinking about how interesting it would be to attempt to play games with a music keyboard. now that i've got a low latency soundcard, soon i'll be setting up my DDR pad to trigger drum samples so i can "dance a beat"

[indstr]

Indstr could you post a video of yourself doing small circles with a keyboard compared to a joystick or pad?

absolutely. i just recorded something in dangun since the movement is pretty fast. i only selected speed 3 , since i've never played it at speed 4 and i didn't know how it would turn out

first up, we have

(only the finest clicky keyboards for me)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 5287&hl=en

btw, i use the numpad for movement. middle finger on 8, index finger on 4, ring finger on 6, and thumb on 2

next up, we have

(the best gamepad i've ever had my hands on. i looove it for platformers. mine is actually a wired model, but i could only find a pic of wireless version)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 6904298302

keyboard is definitely faster for me. no idea how that demo would compare to a good player on a stick (maybe a stick player can do a similar video with the same settings on dangun for contrast)
i've never played a shmup on a stick, save for galaga back in the day. because they don't have shmups here in NC. i would love to try to play them on a stick, but i don't want to shell out $100 only to find out that i hate it. i'm trying to see if i can borrow my friend's fighting stick to try it out sometime though

p.s... all my other shmup videos on google were recorded with me using keyboard. but they're not really serious plays or anything. i panic bomb and die a lot i recorded them mostly so i could show some of my local friends my favourite games in an attempt to convert them

[Zebra Airforce]

Your thumb on 2? That sounds painful. I can imagine setting down to 0, but I couldn't stretch my thumb all the way to two.

[JoshF]

Woah he did it!

[indstr]

Your thumb on 2? That sounds painful. I can imagine setting down to 0, but I couldn't stretch my thumb all the way to two.

it's just what i'm used to from playing doom/hexen way back in the day

Woah he did it!

soo... that sounds like approval that this method is not inferior given the right setup and the right player

[320x240]

Here's my setup:



If I'm playing Cave games I prefer using my Les Paul plugged into a Roland guitar to midi converter.

[indstr]

lol, if everyone is going to be retarded, here is my setup:



320x240, you definitely need the wah pedal if you're playing dangun

[Zebra Airforce]

I plug this...



Into this...



And run it through one of these.

[JoshF]

It's much easier to open the control pads case and use this input device directly.

[Skyline]

[glitch]

and i thought i was weird for mapping bomb to L. -_-;;

[Shion]

I've always used the keyboard to play my PC Shmups (and fighting games for that matter), and I've never had any trouble with it. I do think it's important to have a very sensitive and flat keyboard like I do.

[FIL]

There's a comment about Stargate here somewhere.

[Udderdude]

lol, if everyone is going to be retarded, here is my setup

Hey man, don't laugh, this is serious business. I beat my highscore in ProTools last night. Shit was tight, yo.

[Shatterhand]

yes, i fully expect to be ridiculed because of this

for some odd reason, when my gamepad broke a couple of months ago, and i was jonesing for some dodonpachi, i randomly decided to try it with keyboard on MAME, and almost instantly realized that i highly preferred this method of input (probably due to many many hours of playing doom and hexen with the numpad for movement)

when i got a ps2, one of the accessories i got with it was this:


it's called "max shooter" for ps2

yeah, keyboard and mouse on playstation 2, you can remap any keyboard key to any gamepad button.

it's pretty sweet and works like a dream

Wait a minute... you can use this thing with ANY game? I have one of those, got it for free, but never bothered using it as I thought it would only work with FPSes .... if I can use it with any game, it would be wonderful to play certain rythm games that needs special controllers that I don't own.. (Like Beatmania or Pop'n'Music)
How do I setup this thing?

[moozooh]

severe disadvantage

Disadvantages of a keyboard:
• jerkier movement, more difficult circular movement (the less the circle, the more strain);
• having to press two buttons at once for diagonal movement (the shorter the movement, the easier to fuck up).

Advantages of a keyboard:
• easiest possible single button tapping, due to minimal strain required to press a button when your finger is moving a short distance straight down (compared to horizontal movement required with any other input controller in case of direction tapping, which fatigues the joints in no time);
• better response time if you know how to utilise the buttons well (out of personal experience: I can do 6 pps with barely any effort on a keyboard for minutes straight, and I can't even keep up with that speed on a gamepad);
• completely independent direction buttons (no way to accidentally press left/right when you need to press up/down, or alternating between either).

[Enhasa]

I don't care at all about this issue since I think personal preference is going to trump any minor advantages anyway (and I don't care what everyone else uses), but I disagree a little with some of these.

Advantages of a keyboard:
• easiest possible single button tapping, due to minimal strain required to press a button when your finger is moving a short distance straight down (compared to horizontal movement required with any other input controller in case of direction tapping, which fatigues the joints in no time);
• better response time if you know how to utilise the buttons well (out of personal experience: I can do 6 pps with barely any effort on a keyboard for minutes straight, and I can't even keep up with that speed on a gamepad);
• completely independent direction buttons (no way to accidentally press left/right when you need to press up/down, or alternating between either).

I think it's just as easy to tap with a pad since it's just downward movement as well. For sticks, you are correct.

I disagree with the response time thing, because that's the reason I don't play on keyboard. I can mash buttons a million times better with a pad or stick, which makes sense since buttons have less distance downwards to travel compared to a key.

I don't think that last point is much of an issue unless someone is a first-time newbie or their settings are wack. Adjusting the deadzone or diagonal range would ensure this doesn't happen.


The huge advantage with keyboard is of course having the ability to map tons of keys to all sorts of different things, but this doesn't much apply to shmups.

For shmups, the biggest advantage of keyboard (edit: over a stick I mean, not a pad) is being able to change directions instantly. It's good to use the numpad so the thumb can hover over down too.


Edit for dumb anecdote: I heard some guy brought a keyboard to Evo and everyone made fun of him.

[indstr]

Wait a minute... you can use this thing with ANY game? I have one of those, got it for free, but never bothered using it as I thought it would only work with FPSes .... if I can use it with any game, it would be wonderful to play certain rythm games that needs special controllers that I don't own.. (Like Beatmania or Pop'n'Music)
How do I setup this thing?

yeah man, mine came with an instruction manual. i was gonna give you a quick rundown, but it would be too difficult since you need to know the default key layout in order to remap. here is a link where they offer the manual:

http://www.maxshooter.com/ps2.htm

anyway, the basics are, alt f1 - f12 for different profiles. you remap a key, you just hit escape twice, and then whatever key a button is currently mapped to on the keyboard (this is where you will need to consult the manual for the default bindings), and then the target key you want to change it to. voila. settings can be saved as well

[moozooh]

I think it's just as easy to tap with a pad since it's just downward movement as well. For sticks, you are correct.

Downward, yes, but your thumb has less joints than other fingers, and is more fatigued as a result, not to mention that it's rarely ever aligned perpendicular to the buttons like it is when you're playing on a keyboard. It's more noticeable in practice than in theory, and I have spent years playing on both pads and keyboards, so I have enough experience to talk about it from that perspective.

I disagree with the response time thing, because that's the reason I don't play on keyboard. I can mash buttons a million times better with a pad or stick, which makes sense since buttons have less distance downwards to travel compared to a key.

Exactly why I said about the knowledge on how to do it. The trick is to not release the button all the way up. If your keyboard and your fingers are sensitive enough, you barely have to move them, you can just twitch the finger to mash a button at a great speed (I can do up to 10 ppf and more over a few seconds, I'm not sure it's possible on a pad without rubbing a button or using some other tool).

I don't think that last point is much of an issue unless someone is a first-time newbie or their settings are wack. Adjusting the deadzone or diagonal range would ensure this doesn't happen.

Valid point. Though not every game allows calibrating a pad, and not every system either, and finally, not every pad is possible to calibrate (analog stick yes, d-pad no). Many players were put through sheer frustration of messed up walljumps in Super Metroid, just because it's so easy to accidentally move your thumb over up or down when alternating directions at a high speed. :P

The huge advantage with keyboard is of course having the ability to map tons of keys to all sorts of different things, but this doesn't much apply to shmups.

I don't list that as an advantage for that exact reason, although I did remap buttons in some games that allowed that.

For shmups, the biggest advantage of keyboard is being able to change directions instantly.

See: response time. Moving a stick in an opposite direction counts.

[Enhasa]

Exactly why I said about the knowledge on how to do it. The trick is to not release the button all the way up. If your keyboard and your fingers are sensitive enough, you barely have to move them, you can just twitch the finger to mash a button at a great speed (I can do up to 10 ppf and more over a few seconds, I'm not sure it's possible on a pad without rubbing a button or using some other tool).

How is this a keyboard advantage? If you use a keyboard key the way it isn't intended to be used, then you can mitigate the disadvantage and make it close. Are you saying you can't twitch on a pad?

Valid point. Though not every game allows calibrating a pad, and not every system either, and finally, not every pad is possible to calibrate (analog stick yes, d-pad no).

You can do all of this at a system level with drivers, or if your drivers are terrible because you have an obscure controller, with xpadder or the like.

I don't list that as an advantage for that exact reason, although I did remap buttons in some games that allowed that.

Remapping buttons is not a keyboard advantage since you can do that with anything (autohotkey, xpadder, etc). It's just that there are more buttons available on the keyboard of course.

[moozooh]

How is this a keyboard advantage? If you use a keyboard key the way it isn't intended to be used, then you can mitigate the disadvantage and make it close. Are you saying you can't twitch on a pad?

The issue of intention is a nonargument so I won't address it.

And of course you can twitch on a pad, the question is whether you can do it equally effective, and with equal amount of strain put on your finger joints. As I said, rubbing works just as well, but try to play something like that when you have some actions to do like, well, dodging stuff.

You can do all of this at a system level with drivers, or if your drivers are terrible because you have an obscure controller, with xpadder or the like.

By system, I mean gaming platform. Consoles count. Not all of them has such thing as driver level to begin with.

Remapping buttons is not a keyboard advantage since you can do that with anything (autohotkey, xpadder, etc). It's just that there are more buttons available on the keyboard of course.

Having more buttons is an advantage in this context, though. Anyway, this is irrelevant.

[ROBOTRON]

NEGATIVE.

Its the most f*cked way to play a shmup.