Another Joystick Mod Project

doodude · Post by **doodude** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 1:49 am

Ive been collecting joysticks, joypads & controllers for awhile now & have a notion that Id like to build a Joystick for myself.
Some of the websites Ive visited make it "look" fairly easy "if" you have some idea of what youre doing, what you want & how to achieve the results youre looking for.

Before I get into actually attempting to build something from scratch I thought Id try modding somrthing to learn more about them, their various parts, soldering, painting, wiring, etc.
And before I start modding my DC's or HRAP2 for practice I thought I would start with something a little more expendable.

Is there an inexpensive stick anyone would recommend for modding practice?
What is the minimum depth, height, width, weight & so on that a stick must have to be a reasonable candidate for modding?

I see these SEGA Vitua sticks ( I even own one ) PSX sticks, N64 Arcade Sharks, Interact sticks, Eclispe sticks & all manner of Fighter Sticks for really cheap on ebay & I wonder if I can mod them into a better stick than they are or if they are just hopelessly doomed to begin with.

Id like to hear some thoughts on this & would appreciate any direction or useful links anyone can enlighten me with, please...

ReKleSS · Post by **ReKleSS** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:00 am

If you have the parts you can build a stick into any case you want. I stuck one into a cardboard box for a while, which worked well enough. Modding the HRAP2 isn't really necessary, but there's no soldering involved and it's near impossible to screw up. The DC stick is somewhat messy, especially if you want to fit sanwa buttons (hint: Hori buttons fit perfectly, without filing), but still not too hard.

cutty_sark · Post by **cutty_sark** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:58 am

If you have access to any woodworking tools, I'd just try to build a stick from scratch with some cheap HAPP parts. Get a few cheap 3rd party PSX controllers (not necessarily sticks) so you can practice soldering onto the PCB. I've found the official Sony ones are much harder to work with.

When you order the buttons and stick, read up on the part dimensions and use this info to plan the dimensions of your box, and what top surface you want to mount the parts onto.

Post by **spadgy** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:55 pm

I'm at about the same level of experience and knowledge as Doodude, and have numerous sticks, and would love to make my own. What I'm interested in is what stick to choose if I were to build a wooded box custom stick.

I've read before about the 'throw' of sticks and other variables (was it 'reach' and 'extend'?). Are there sticks you can buy where you can customise the feel of the stick, or has anyone a document or link to somewhere that covers all the sticks you can buy as a part and how they feel in terms of stiffness etc? I've searched around here only to find conflicting information...

doodude · Post by **doodude** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 9:43 pm

spadgy wrote:I've read before about the 'throw' of sticks and other variables (was it 'reach' and 'extend'?). Are there sticks you can buy where you can customise the feel of the stick, or has anyone a document or link to somewhere that covers all the sticks you can buy as a part and how they feel in terms of stiffness etc? I've searched around here only to find conflicting information...

This is also another concern of mine. Im sure there must be others, but the only stick Ive heard of so far that allows for the "re-adjustment" of the throw is this one at X-Arcade:

http://www.xgaming.com/arcade_joystick.shtml

Is there another stick that allows for this also?

Bonemaster969 · Post by **Bonemaster969** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 10:56 pm

Personally, I think it's actually EASIER just to make a stick from scratch instead of modding a stick. When you mod a stick, you have to mess around with filing stuff and working with weird PCBs that are soldered directly to the buttons. And when you finally finish, the result usually looks the same, except it works better. When you build a stick, you can make it how YOU want it to be. You're gonna be building a stick eventually, may as well start now. You can always learn from this stick and make an even better one next time.

doodude · Post by **doodude** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:30 am

I believe you are somewhat correct BM969.

But as I have no real understanding of how sticks are put together Im thinking dismantling one & putting it back together will be very, very instructional.
Thats why I was asking about something generic enough & cheap enough to work on without the fear of destroying it. Which may very well happen. Probably...

As spagy mentioned the joystick throw &/or adjustment capability Ive got another question about button layout.

I dont use all the buttons on my HRAP2 when I shmup. So how many buttons does a Shmupping stick need in order to get the full access to the Shmups options?
Are all Shmups created equal in this respect? Do some Shmups require more buttons than other Shmups?
Would 2 be enough? 3?

ReKleSS · Post by **ReKleSS** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:52 am

I can't think of any throw adjustment, but you can change the activation distance on levered microswitches by bending the levers.

As for buttons, I believe Mushi and Ibara arrange have the most, at five buttons. Three will get you by for most games, but a few more (Dragon Blaze, ESPGaluda...) want four. Three should do if you don't mind losing autofire. If you're making a console stick I would recommend a minimum of six, just so you can cover everything.

Post by **spadgy** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:33 pm

So if I were to build a console stick I'd need the buttons, stick and wiring, but what about the PCB to link it all together. Can you buy these or do you just rip them from, for example, a PS2 pad?

And the same with the cable and jack to plug it into a console. Pillage it again?

I think I'm up for making a PS2 stick.

cutty_sark · Post by **cutty_sark** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:58 am

Just use the PCB and cord from a cheap 3rd party PSX/PS2 controller. Open the controller up and remove the shell. Pop out all the buttons and the d-pad. Identify the traces on the PCB that are activated by the buttons and d-pad. Under each button there should be 2 traces - one is for that button, and the other is ground. The ground trace is the one that's connected together all over the board - should be pretty easy to identify. Now solder your button leads onto the proper traces, both buttons and ground. Depending on the controller you're working with, you might have to sand the coating off the traces. Don't be upset if you wreck a controller or 2 as you try to do this. It can be tricky depending on the controller.

The other option is to make your custom controller with a regular old d-sub connector using the neo-geo pinout. Then make a PSX/neo adapter out of an old PSX controller. This way you can make as many custom controllers as you want and just plug them into the adapter, instead of having to tear apart a PSX controller each time.

doodude · Post by **doodude** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:03 am

I just picked up this stick on ebay for $36 with plans to basically gut it & rebuild with new parts.
Id like to hear any suggestions, pointers, warnings or words to the wise if anyone would be good enough to share their thoughts...

By doodude

Post by **spadgy** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:19 am

cutty_sark wrote:Just use the PCB and cord from a cheap 3rd party PSX/PS2 controller. Open the controller up and remove the shell. Pop out all the buttons and the d-pad. Identify the traces on the PCB that are activated by the buttons and d-pad. Under each button there should be 2 traces - one is for that button, and the other is ground. The ground trace is the one that's connected together all over the board - should be pretty easy to identify. Now solder your button leads onto the proper traces, both buttons and ground. Depending on the controller you're working with, you might have to sand the coating off the traces. Don't be upset if you wreck a controller or 2 as you try to do this. It can be tricky depending on the controller.

The other option is to make your custom controller with a regular old d-sub connector using the neo-geo pinout. Then make a PSX/neo adapter out of an old PSX controller. This way you can make as many custom controllers as you want and just plug them into the adapter, instead of having to tear apart a PSX controller each time.

Thanks Cutty - I think I'll go for the first. Why do you specify 3rd party? Just the cheapness? I ask as I have a tonne of first party spares...

Post by **Shatterhand** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:47 pm

3rd party are cheaper and usually easier to work with.

I dunno why I never thought about using a cardboard box for an arcade stick... it would work wonderfully and be very cheap

cutty_sark · Post by **cutty_sark** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 2:16 am

spadgy wrote:Thanks Cutty - I think I'll go for the first. Why do you specify 3rd party? Just the cheapness? I ask as I have a tonne of first party spares...

The PCB in first party controllers has really narrow traces and an annoying coating. It's a pain to solder onto. The 3rd party ones generally have a cheaper PCB with chunkier, bare metal traces. Much easier to solder onto.

doodude · Post by **doodude** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 2:39 am

Just located this Instructable for a UPCB ( Universal PCB ) that I thought looked interesting & in line with the MOD theme here.

I havent had time to read it all so I cant be responsible if it instructs you to rewire your cat...

http://www.instructables.com/id/Assembl ... ersal-PCB/

Anyone familiar with this?

By doodude

ReKleSS · Post by **ReKleSS** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 6:29 am

cutty_sark wrote:
spadgy wrote:Thanks Cutty - I think I'll go for the first. Why do you specify 3rd party? Just the cheapness? I ask as I have a tonne of first party spares...
The PCB in first party controllers has really narrow traces and an annoying coating. It's a pain to solder onto. The 3rd party ones generally have a cheaper PCB with chunkier, bare metal traces. Much easier to solder onto.

Some of the first party controllers I've worked on have solder pads near each button pad, which make it fairly painless. You're also less likely to get compatibility issues.

Square King · Post by **Square King** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 6:32 am

doodude wrote:I just picked up this stick on ebay for $36 with plans to basically gut it & rebuild with new parts.
Id like to hear any suggestions, pointers, warnings or words to the wise if anyone would be good enough to share their thoughts...

That's awesome!

doodude · Post by **doodude** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 6:49 pm

As I continue to learn more about the art of makin' & moddin' sticks Ive run into a couple of things that seemed worthy of posting.

Like this little gadget that I found @ my local Wallyworld. Its new to me tho' some of you may know more about it.
Either way, for those of us who cant solder for squat this seems like a cool tool & a handy site to explain it.

Hope its helpful to somebody...

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/cold-heat.htm

cody · Post by **cody** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:19 pm

doodude wrote:Just located this Instructable for a UPCB ( Universal PCB ) that I thought looked interesting & in line with the MOD theme here.

I havent had time to read it all so I cant be responsible if it instructs you to rewire your cat...

http://www.instructables.com/id/Assembl ... ersal-PCB/

Anyone familiar with this?

I've got two of them. Lemme know if you have questions.

doodude · Post by **doodude** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:48 pm

cody wrote:
doodude wrote:Just located this Instructable for a UPCB ( Universal PCB ) that I thought looked interesting & in line with the MOD theme here.

I havent had time to read it all so I cant be responsible if it instructs you to rewire your cat...

http://www.instructables.com/id/Assembl ... ersal-PCB/

Anyone familiar with this?
I've got two of them. Lemme know if you have questions.

Thanks cody,

My 1st ? is are they worth the money, the effort & the time to purchase & assemble?
How reliable are they?

Actually, I think itd be cool if you could give a review of how you used them, any trouble &/or successes you had any advice or thoughts you care to give or share.

cody · Post by **cody** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:19 pm

I would say they are most worthwhile if you want to use

ps1 / ps2
usb
nes /snes
neogeo
...etc

with one stick. Saturn and ps3 still have some glitches that are being worked out. xbox360 requires a genuine 360 pad (just like every other solution, grrr).

assembly isnt that bad, but toodles is (was?) selling them preassembled as well. Installation into stick is really easy, especially if you use a joystick extension cable through the existing hole, rather than trying to mount a db15 onto the case.

it290 · Post by **it290** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 2:34 am

Don't use one of those Cold Heat tools when operating on/near ICs, they can fry stuff much more easily than a regular iron.

doodude · Post by **doodude** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:57 am

it290 wrote:Don't use one of those Cold Heat tools when operating on/near ICs, they can fry stuff much more easily than a regular iron.

From The ColdHeat FAQs:

9. What is the spark I see sometimes during soldering?

The spark (arc) is caused as electrical current passes from one half of the tip to the other. Although the tool's spark should not damage any electrical or electronic components, we recommend caution when soldering sensitive components. Also, ensure that the tool is not used in flammable or explosive environments, such as near gas or gasoline fumes.

...........................

It appears it290 is onto something here. In theory this seems like the perfect way to solder.
But as there is a hint of doubt I think Ill stay with the old fashioned way & either get another lower temp iron or splurge for a variable. Will a 15W iron do the job?
Thanks it290...

it290 · Post by **it290** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:53 am

Yeah, 15W should be about perfect.