Annual Top 10 of the Less Experienced - Results Thread

[Rob]

that's your opinion

Well done.

says who?

Someone who's played all 4 and, you know, other games that don't play exactly the same.

[jpj]

i've played all 4, and not one of them makes the other three redundant because all four games don't play 'exactly the same'.

[professor ganson]

11-20 > 1-10

[Rob]

Exactly the same = as similar as Psikyo games are to each other.

[Ed Oscuro]

It is strange, though. Swap Gradius V and Giga Wing, and I'd say that the 11-20 rank would be some people's top 10. Certainly it's a lot closer to mine!

Fun was had by all in this vote, that's what counts.

[professor ganson]

It was fun. Thanks, unsane.

[jp]

You know... I haven't played Mushi or ESPGaluda (I don't think, not unless its the ESP game in MAME), but aren't Dangun Feveron and ProGear generally regarded as two of the better Cave releases alongside Ketsui and DoDonPachi?

Legit question, not flaming, just wondering.

[Dale]

As far as I've noticed those two are some of the lesser liked of Cave's library . I love Progear personally though.

[Rob]

For Cave, Dangun is Sol Divide. Progear is pretty well regarded but probably gets points subtracted for not requiring tate and its unique (as far as Cave) gameplay elements.

[jp]

Wow. I didn't realize Dangun Feveron was looked down on. Thats actually my second favorite Cave game of the ones I've played (just behind ProGear no less, ).

[jpj]

exactly the same = similar

that was a good one. mushi makes galuda obsolete?

dangun isn't really looked at as being a bad game. it's just that it's from cave, and there are other cave games that are more great. the greatness of which can be reflected in the original post. innit.

[Arvandor]

DDP, DOJ, ESPGaluda, Mushi <-- three of these are redundant, pick them.

I'd say only 2 of them even approach redundancy, but... really not. DDP and DOJ are similar (odd considering they're in the same series, eh?), but even DDP and DOJ are more different from each other than Gunbird 2 and Strikers 1945 II =P Mushihimesama is quite different as well, especially if you count Original mode, which isn't chain-based at all.

that was a good one. mushi makes galuda obsolete?

He said three of them were redundant. Obviously ESPgaluda is the odd one out.

[Rob]

that was a good one. mushi makes galuda obsolete?

Neither should be in a good (well-rounded) top 10. Cave that belongs in a top 10: a Dodonpachi. One of them. Not something that plays like DDP, looks a little different and has slightly different restrictions to where you can be on the screen to score points. But this was a response to Arvandor's comment. As an amateur's top 10 it's perfect.

even DDP and DOJ are more different from each other than Gunbird 2 and Strikers 1945 II

I don't think so.

[cody]

As an amateur's top 10 it's perfect.

http://austin.craigslist.org/tfr/603317641.html

[Arvandor]

*shrugs* I think you think wrongly =P

Aside from obvious graphical and setting differences, Strikers 1945 II and Gunbird 2 play a bit more similarly than DDP and DOJ. GB2 has melee attacks and a chain bonus on the medal collection. DOJ has hypers. The difficulty gap is a lot smaller between GB2 and Strikers II, where as with DDP and DOJ it's very considerable. I think most of it comes with the bullet patterns though, let's see if I can describe this somehow.

If you take GB2, analyze the bullet and enemy patterns, and label it a "psikyo game." Then take Strikers 1945 II, analyze the enemy and bullet patterns, you could also label it a "psikyo game."

Now let's repeat the process with DDP and DOJ. If you take DDP, analyze the bullet and enemy patterns, and label it a "cave game." Then take DOJ, analyze the enemy and bullet patterns, you could only label it a "cave game on crack... AND steroids."

Now, we also have to consider that DOJ is the sequel to DDP, of course they're going to play very much alike. I wouldn't have it any other way. Strikers 1945 II and Gunbird 2 are two entirely different IPs, that play more alike than two games in a series by another company. And I honestly don't think it's a bad thing, I love both Gunbird 2 and Strikers 1945 2, though I prefer Strikers for the setting. Would listing both of those games at the top of my favorite Psikyo games list be wrong because they're so similar? I submit that it would not. Neither is listing DDP and DOJ. Let alone something as different as Mushihimesama.

[jp]

I submit that it would not. Neither is listing DDP and DOJ. Let alone something as different as Mushihimesama.

Yeah... Psikyo made like, one game. Maybe two.

[elfhentaifan]

Viepoint is on a deserved 126th place.
But why the hell has Ibara and BWR dropped so much?
Also lol @ sdmkun, which is dying at the 150th place.

Where has all the flavour gone? Abused and destroyed by everyone!

[Rob]

http://austin.craigslist.org/tfr/603317641.html

Hey, that's me.

[jpj]

it's not your place to tell other people what they should, or should not, vote for

[Rob]

I can say they voted for a dud though.

Then take DOJ, analyze the enemy and bullet patterns, you could only label it a "cave game on crack... AND steroids."

I wouldn't disagree that the patterns are a lot better. I think you can say a similar thing about GB2. Strikers' and DDP's patterns are easygoing in comparison to what came after though obviously DOJ's came even later.

GB2 is harder than S1945II, DOJ is harder than DDP. Then there's what: hypers vs. charge-attack strategy and minor scoring tweaks for both.

Would listing both of those games at the top of my favorite Psikyo games list be wrong because they're so similar?

This isn't a personal top 10, it represents everyone who voted.

[Arvandor]

I can say they voted for a dud though.

And they can say you vote for a dud by picking Mars Matrix (I don't think so, just saying as an example). Subjective opinions are fun to argue. Because those arguments go places fast and stuff, specifially nowhere. Disagreeing with a list that was voted on just puts you in the minority is all, doesn't make you or them right/wrong.

GB2 is harder than S1945II, DOJ is harder than DDP. Then there's what: hypers vs. charge-attack strategy and minor scoring tweaks for both.

My main point here is same series vs completely seperate series. DDP and DOJ SHOULD play very similar. DOJ being a sequel to DDP and all. Strikers 1945 II and Gunbird 2 are completely seperate series, that take place in entirely different universes, that play like they're in the same series. You could change all the sprites and backgrounds in Gunbird 2 to warplane stuff, call it Strikers 1945 III, then call 1999 IV instead of III, and no one would have been the wiser =)

This isn't a personal top 10, it represents everyone who voted.

You know what I mean. Having DDP and DOJ in the same list isn't like having Batsugun and Batsugun Special Ver in the same list in different spots. Or DOJ White and Black Label in different spots or something like that.

http://austin.craigslist.org/tfr/603317641.html

Hey, that's me.

Holy shit it is! Dude, you should do it for the zenny!

If it makes you feel any better though, you're one of my favorite elitist twits on this forum.

[Rob]

My main point here is same series vs completely seperate series. [...] You could change all the sprites and backgrounds in Gunbird 2 to warplane stuff, call it Strikers 1945 III, then call 1999 IV instead of III, and no one would have been the wiser =)

You could do lots of stuff with swapping sprites and game titles. Mushi could just as easily have been a Pachi sequel (w/ different chaining!).

If more than a few Cave games were notably different from the DoDonPachi-model I don't think there would be so many of them high on the list. Games at the top are all safe variations of a successful and solid formula. Great, but it doesn't make the list any better than Gamespot's.

When they do something different:
30 Dangun Feveron 0.564
31 Guwange 0.551

[FIL]

Which is also what happened to Dangun and Guwange in the "expert's" chart, neither are in the top 25.

[Arvandor]

I really like Guwange too >_< Dangun is fun and all, but I wouldn't put it in my top 10. I'd like to think it's an issue of people just not having played them, but then... How did Progear end up so high if that's the case? Clearly all those people have MAME. So where's the Guwange love?

Then we have ESPgaluda. Definitely not a model of anything, and is rather unique, and ranked quite high. How do you explain that one? A truly amazing game? From Cave? Gasp?

I don't even know what we're arguing here anymore. Most people like Cave games, particularly the chain-style games, you don't... ... K... Is there any more to it I'm missing here?

[jp]

My main point here is same series vs completely seperate series. [...] You could change all the sprites and backgrounds in Gunbird 2 to warplane stuff, call it Strikers 1945 III, then call 1999 IV instead of III, and no one would have been the wiser =)

You could do lots of stuff with swapping sprites and game titles. Mushi could just as easily have been a Pachi sequel (w/ different chaining!).

If more than a few Cave games were notably different from the DoDonPachi-model I don't think there would be so many of them high on the list. Games at the top are all safe variations of a successful and solid formula. Great, but it doesn't make the list any better than Gamespot's.

When they do something different:
30 Dangun Feveron 0.564
31 Guwange 0.551

Truth.

[Rob]

Most people like Cave games, particularly the chain-style games,

Debatable.

[Arvandor]

I said Cave games, not scoring systems, big difference. Not everyone, hell, probably not even the majority, of people who play shmups care about score. Just because the Cave chainers are liked greatly, doesn't necessarily mean it's BECAUSE they're chainers.

[The Coop]

Thunder Force IV not being even close to the top ten instantly negates any and all voting.

I HAVE DECREED IT!



Now give me a gavel so I can slam it and feel official.

[Rob]

Speaking of which, the funniest thing:


60 Thunderforce III 0.218

[jp]

Thunder Force IV not being even close to the top ten instantly negates any and all voting.

I HAVE DECREED IT!



Now give me a gavel so I can slam it and feel official.

This is also true. Very true in fact.

Tecno Soft >> Cave