Ketsui X and Daioujou Black Label X - Ports for Xbox 360

bcass · Post by **bcass** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:13 pm

I don't think *anybody* wants to have to import a Japanese 360 just to play these games. That would be madness. A little effort on our part could help towards giving these releases more exposure. If we changed the wording of the existing petition, and also have it asking for TATE, optional filter(s), and scanlines, then it might be possible to attract the Japanese fraternity too, and they could all sign it as well. Make it a world-wide petition, rather than just a US-centric one. A US/EUR release might well be outside the means of such a small company, but asking for a few minor changes to the Japanese release seems a lot more practical IMO.

Let's say the petition asked for these things:

1. Inclusion of TATE options.
2. Inclusion of scanlines options.
3. Option to disable any graphical filters, if any graphical filters are used.
4. Make the disc region-free, so fans of Cave all over the world can import the game.

Points 1 to 3 would also be in the best interests of the Japanese too, so you'd get many more signatories on the petition.

CStarFlare · Post by **CStarFlare** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:08 pm

nem wrote:I would just skip the petition altogether. A hundred or so signatures doesn't really get the point across. Instead I would undersign it with Shmups, the international shoot'em-up game community, as a whole.

Signing a petition as "everyone" comes off as pretty half-assed. If we get a couple hundred people to take the time to personally express their interest, it'd look a hell of a lot more impressive than "sincerely THE COMMUNITY."

I'm not sure a petition for a wide range of features will be. It might be better to make it focused on one specific issue (in this case, region-free) so they know exactly how many people support THAT issue. By putting a list of demands, the company doesn't know if the people who sign it support points 1 and 3, just 2, all of the above, or what.

Besides, as bcass said points 1-3 are in the best interests of Japanese fans as well, and if they care they'll probably make waves about them on their own, without a petition with (ps region free ftw) tacked on the end. Getting Japanese gamers to sign a petition for something that has no importance to them just bloats the petition, and would skew the company's expectations of international interest.

Post by **undamned** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:35 pm

How about have people put the # of those 4 items in their comments, like:

1) Joe Shoester - 1,3,4
2) Shammy Poopsmacker - 1,2,3
3) ...

-ud

bcass · Post by **bcass** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:42 pm

I think having multiple petitions is going to convolute the whole thing a lot more than asking multiple questions on the one petition. I'll see what Fujix has to say, I'm sure he can give us an idea of how the Japanese might take to this.

CStarFlare · Post by **CStarFlare** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:43 pm

That complicates the process considerably, because then you have to tally up the number of votes for each suggestion.

I'm not saying those points are unimportant, I'm just saying that we shouldn't stuff a bunch of shit into one petition and dump it all on the company at once. For non-Japanese gamers, I think the region lock issue is (or should be) top priority.

If you're really worried about the others there's no harm in making petitions for them as well, but an all-inclusive petition isn't going to give its full effect to any one issues.

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:48 pm

why didn't you just do a petition for a ps3 port?

jp · Post by jp » Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:08 pm

Why is this petition to Microsoft?

Ceph · Post by **Ceph** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:34 pm

Also nice how whoever created the petition apparently thinks the only other people in the world who might want the games are living in the US.

bcass · Post by **bcass** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:39 pm

Just to point out, that existing petition has nothing to do with me. It does seem to have been somewhat hastily put-together...

Frederik · Post by **Frederik** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:49 pm

szycag wrote:I wish shmups.com would step up to the plate and have reviews of the latest games targeted at and written by actual fans of the genre. People shouldn't have to browse through forums to get those kinds of opinions. That way they could actually make their way around blogs and stuff. Any of the sheep who actually base everything on reviews read blogs like Joystiq anyways, that compile all the reviews as if people should just average together the scores.

Google "Espgaluda 2 review" or "Muchi Muchi Pork review" for instance and in both cases you will get to reviews from forum members very quickly. There are quite a bunch of professional reviews of shmups on the internet, so it´s not all that bleak.

nem · Post by **nem** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:55 pm

CStarFlare wrote:
nem wrote:I would just skip the petition altogether. A hundred or so signatures doesn't really get the point across. Instead I would undersign it with Shmups, the international shoot'em-up game community, as a whole.
Signing a petition as "everyone" comes off as pretty half-assed. If we get a couple hundred people to take the time to personally express their interest, it'd look a hell of a lot more impressive than "sincerely THE COMMUNITY."

I disagree, partly because I absolutely hate petitiononline.com. I don't see how entering a nickname and slapping on a comment equates to personally expressing any considerable interest. A well formed personal letter coming from the Shmups community is a lot less tacky.

Shmups.com is the largest western community of STG players on the net, why not use that to (y)our advantage.

bcass · Post by **bcass** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:06 pm

I'd say use both. Have the letter mention the community and point to the petition(s). Petitions do make a difference, at least they have done previously in Japan.

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:43 pm

EOJ wrote:
Erinu wrote:
Erinu wrote:Have any of the other cave games been localized?
Not that I know of. They might suddenly start doing it now for all those western, 360 owning, shooting fans though.
Great, now you're having conversations with yourself.

He has self-diagnosed aspergers.

CStarFlare · Post by **CStarFlare** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:18 pm

nem wrote:I disagree, partly because I absolutely hate petitiononline.com. I don't see how entering a nickname and slapping on a comment equates to personally expressing any considerable interest. A well formed personal letter coming from the Shmups community is a lot less tacky.

Shmups.com is the largest western community of STG players on the net, why not use that to (y)our advantage.

While I don't consider myself a petitiononline fan, a show of numbers is usually a good thing and I'm unaware of any better online alterantives.

A well formed personal letter on behalf of the shmups community wouldn't be a bad idea at all, but in itself one letter representing a forum with a small handful of active users isn't going to make 5pb's head spin. There's also the language issue, since we'd need someone who can write Japanese well.

(Unless 5pb has someone who's able to communicate with us in English. I've had correspondence with Japanese sites in English in the past, so it's not impossible. In which case, it might be better for us to send emails individually than to sign a petition)

Both would be cool.

bcass · Post by **bcass** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:29 pm

I don't think it would be a good idea for us to essentially start spamming 5pb... Besides, Fujix (who is Japanese) has already stated that he will compose a letter for us (in Japanese). I suppose we need to collectively decide if that letter is going to include those 4 questions (as seen in the 1st post on this page), and if it will point to some sort of online petition...

jp · Post by jp » Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:43 pm

I think the petition bcass is talking about sounds like as good an idea as any, and I would definitely support that (as well as try to help get signatures).

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:06 pm

One of these days, a petition is going to work, damnit.

If you want to give them a chance to see it, you should try a Japanese site at least.

Harlequin · Post by **Harlequin** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:31 am

jpj wrote:why didn't you just do a petition for a ps3 port?

Ceph wrote:Also nice how whoever created the petition apparently thinks the only other people in the world who might want the games are living in the US.

I agree. Kind of understand tho, XBox360 is mainly marketed in US

Anyway, Petitions are useless, they are going to do whats in thier best
interest not whats in our best interest.

Good Luck though!

Harlequin

Zebra Airforce · Post by **Zebra Airforce** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:32 am

fucking destroictoid members made a terrible petition

somone make a petition that asks the important stuff and doesn't suck, in english and japanese, and somone else post it on 2ch or something, and send a letter to 5pbpbpp. with polite questions and a link to the petition that everyone has to sign or you are banned. make sure you also mention europe, cause they love shmups too.

bcass · Post by **bcass** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:42 am

Here is the first draft of the letter:

5pb.様へ

突然のメール失礼致します。

既にご存じかもしれませんが、ヨーロッパ、アメリカ地域にはシューティングゲーム
ファンのコミュニティがいくつかあり、特にケイブ社による作品は固定ファンを生み
出すほど高い評価を受けています。これらのファンの多くは、「shmups forum」
（http://shmups.system11.org/index.php）のメンバーとして活動しています。もち
ろん、
他にも同様なフォーラムがいくつか存在しています。

3月8日付けのファミ通紙上で、「ケツイ～絆地獄たち～X」と「怒首領蜂大往生ブラック
レーベル」のXbox 360向け移植ついて発表されましたが、そのニュースはこのフォーラム
はもちろん、他の海外のシューティングファンにも広まり、大変期待が高まっています。

そこで、海外のユーザを代表して、ヨーロッパやアメリカ向けのXbox 360でもプレイでき
るよう、リージョンフリーでのリリースをご検討頂きたくメールを差し上げた次第です。
今回の議論は前述のフォーラム内で行われています
（http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=19021）。

また、この他にも以下のような要望が上がりました：

1. TATEモードをサポートして欲しい
2. スキャンライン表示をサポートして欲しい
3. もしPS2版の「鋳薔薇」にあったようなフィルタリングが使われている場合、
それをオフにするオプションを追加して欲しい

以上につきまして、ご検討いただければ幸いです。
これらのゲームがプレイできる日を楽しみにしています。

それでは。

[Your signature]

参考：
アメリカでの両タイトル発売を求める署名
http://www.petitiononline.com/Dtoid/petition.html
US版の360ではリージョンが日本のもの事実上プレイができますので、やはりリージョン
フリーでのリリースが最もファンにとって幸せな結果をもたらすと思われます。

360向けリージョンフリータイトル
http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-14-71-fc-49-jp.html
http://egamia.wikia.com/wiki/Region_Free_Xbox_360_Games
既に多くの360向けゲームがリージョンフリーとしてリリースされています。

Fujix has also made reference to the shmups community, the existing petition, and 2 sites at the end of the text that lists region-free titles. Looking at those region-free lists, there seems to be more region-free games (accross all 3 major regions) than I initially expected. Could I ask that no-one sends this until we are agreed on the content and what petition it links to. Thanks.

bcass · Post by **bcass** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:10 pm

If we don't want to reference the existing petition, then can we decide on the wording of a new petition? Going from previous comments, the new petition would simply ask for the conversions to be region-free. Once we have decided the wording, I will pass the text on to Fujix who can word it appropriately in Japanese, then we can have the petition text in English and Japanese on the petition site.

Ceph · Post by **Ceph** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:57 pm

I wouldn't mention the existing petition; just forget about that one. Asking for the games to be released in any country besides Japan is nonsense to begin with. All we can really hope for are for the Japanese games to be region free.

However, I still think that a well-worded letter which links to to this forum in the name of the international shoot 'em up community would be better than a petition. Internet petitions never seem to work.

bcass · Post by **bcass** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:10 pm

Normally, I would agree about online petitions, and I wasn't originally going refer to it when I asked Fujix to write the letter. However, he seemed to think it would add substance to the letter. It's not going to detract from the content of the letter is it?

bcass · Post by **bcass** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:08 pm

OK, does anyone object to my sending this letter on our behalf? If nobody objects by tomorrow mid-day, I will send it tomorrow afternoon. I have asked Fujix to make it clear that the petition is just to show that there is interest outside Japan for Caves games, and not strictly that we are requesting the game being released outside Japan. I don't think the petition will do any harm, personally, but if there is strong objection to it being linked to I will remove the reference to it. Here is the 2nd draft, which has a more organised structure than the 1st one:

5pb.様へ

私はイギリス在住のbcassという者です。現在御社にて開発中と報じられているケイブ社製
シューティングゲームについて、海外ゲームファンからの要望を伝えたくメール致し
ます。

既にご存じかもしれませんが、ヨーロッパ、アメリカ地域にはシューティングゲーム
ファン
のコミュニティがいくつかあり、特にケイブによる作品は固定ファン層を生み出すほ
ど高い
評価を受けています。これらのファンの多くは、「shmups forum」
（http://shmups.system11.org/index.php）のメンバーとして活動しています。もち
ろん、
他にも同様なフォーラムが国境を越えていくつか存在しています。

3月8日付けのファミ通紙上で、「ケツイ～絆地獄たち～X」と「怒首領蜂大往生ブラック
レーベル」のXbox 360向け移植ついて発表されましたが、そのニュースはこのフォーラム
はもちろん、他の海外のシューティングファンにも広まり、大変期待が高まっています。

そこで、ヨーロッパやアメリカ向けのXbox 360でもこれらのタイトルがプレイできる
よう、
リージョンフリーでのリリースを是非ともご検討いただけないでしょうか。ちなみに、
今回の議論は前述のフォーラム内で行われています
（http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=19021）。

また、この他にも以下のような要望が上がりました：

1. TATEモードをサポートして欲しい
2. スキャンライン表示をサポートして欲しい
3. もしPS2版の「鋳薔薇」にあったようなフィルタリングが使われている場合、
それをオフにするオプションを追加して欲しい

以上につきまして、ご検討いただければ幸いです。
これらのゲームがプレイできる日を楽しみにしています。

それでは。

参考：
アメリカでの両タイトル発売を求める署名
http://www.petitiononline.com/Dtoid/petition.html
US版の360ではリージョンが日本のもの事実上プレイができますので、やはりリージョン
フリーでのリリースが最もファンにとって幸せな結果をもたらすと思われます。

360向けリージョンフリータイトル
http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-14-71-fc-49-jp.html
http://egamia.wikia.com/wiki/Region_Free_Xbox_360_Games
既に多くの360向けゲームがリージョンフリーとしてリリースされています。

jp · Post by jp » Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:18 pm

I support this petition.

Post by **undamned** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:20 pm

Do it.
-ud

Geezer · Post by **Geezer** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:09 pm

Bcass, the letter sounds great, thanks for your and Fujix's efforts

lawnspic · Post by **lawnspic** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:44 pm

I think this is great news, if the port is good then everyone will get a crack at this gem that "we have all heard about" for years. I think this game should get the vote for most hyped shmup next to RS at this point

Tempest · Post by **Tempest** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:49 pm

Wait! Before you send that petition, please note that you have typed it out in some indecipherable language! It looks like Webdings or something. You can thanks me later.

bcass · Post by **bcass** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:05 pm

LOL, thanks for the tip.