Ketsui X and Daioujou Black Label X - Ports for Xbox 360

Balzac · Post by **Balzac** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:02 am

bcass wrote:Maybe we should get someone who can read/write Japanese to compose a polite email which could be sent? With them being such a small company there's probably more chance of it being read by someone who can do something about the situation.

Cave is well aware there's a market interested in their games outside Japan.

The problem is that Mihara and company are ethnocentric wankers who could give two shits about shmupers outside Japan. Profiting off us isn't even an incentive for them. Simply put, they could care less that they even have foreign fans. With the exception of French Bread, the doujin community has the same attitude. Small time PC publishers have shot off emails to ZUN and the like about english localizations and most have either not replied or politely declined.

Getting back to Cave though, these ports are going to come out and they'll likely be region locked just to keep us from playing them. Then there's a good chance that if any publisher approaches Cave concerning an NTSC-U/PAL release, they will either outright say no or purposely charge a licensing fee so prohibitively expensive that no publisher could profit from it without charging full retail per title.

So either start saving for that Japanese 360, or pray that SH3 is finally emulated in the coming year.

orange · Post by **orange** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:44 am

sounds like somebody has a case of the moooooondays

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:08 am

Balzac wrote: Cave is well aware there's a market interested in their games outside Japan.

Yes, a very small one.

The problem is that Mihara and company are ethnocentric wankers who could give two shits about shmupers outside Japan.

Mihara doesn't work for CAVE. Sounds like you're a bit confused.

Profiting off us isn't even an incentive for them. Simply put, they could care less that they even have foreign fans.

This is true.

That is not to say CAVE is not appreciative of the small number of foreigners who buy their arcade PCB kits. For example, they gave all foreign orders (and only foreign orders) of Mushihimesama Futari Black Label free worldwide express shipping last Christmas.

Also keep in mind, once again, CAVE has nothing to do with these ports, so if you complain about them in this instance you're barking up the wrong tree. Whether 5pb (the publisher of these games!) or another publisher markets them abroad or not is not CAVE's matter to deal with. CAVE doesn't publish ports, after all.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:27 am

of Mushihimesama Futari Black Label free worldwide express shipping last Christmas.

Not to mention occasionally photo blog about the foreigners who come all the way to Japan to see their booth at the shows (although their booth is now 99% line).

Zebra Airforce · Post by **Zebra Airforce** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:37 am

Balzac, I'm sure IKD would love to have his games played all over the world by his fans, but unfortunately he has no control over this. You act as though he is begrudging you his games because you are from the west, however this is far from the case, I can assure you.

Necronom · Post by **Necronom** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:51 am

kemical wrote:this is really good news, in contrast to no ketsui port ever.
The sense that it will be a disc release scares me, it seems like a better scenerio for profits if the games were on xblive, of course it would be a lower price, but it would skip out on any manufacturing costs, and it could be released in all territories with little localization or advertisement... but a retail disc version only in Japan... i dunno.
With xblive it is a lot easier for purchases that you wouldn't usually make, when in a store more consideration goes into picking up a game you may not have known about and walking off with it to purchase. And with Ikaruga coming out, the talk of that alone could cause interest in purchasing the next "hardcore" thing, if a cave game was on live...

Exactly my thoughts. I'm also pretty sure that an xbla release would result in better profits and 5pb probably knows this - it's not only the manufacturing costs but also shelf space that costs money. However, one thing that is probably working against it is the whole procedure of "green lighting" an xbla release. I think it was Jeff Minter who wrote on his forums that MS turns a lot of stuff down and it takes ages to go through all the stages of that procedure. Maybe it easier to release a still profitable small print of discs than going the long and uncertain way of getting it "greenlighted" for xbla?

kingmobster · Post by **kingmobster** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:01 pm

Necronom wrote:However, one thing that is probably working against it is the whole procedure of "green lighting" an xbla release. I think it was Jeff Minter who wrote on his forums that MS turns a lot of stuff down and it takes ages to go through all the stages of that procedure. Maybe it easier to release a still profitable small print of discs than going the long and uncertain way of getting it "greenlighted" for xbla?

I'm pretty sure the greenlighting process for disc media isn't any less "horrible".

bcass · Post by **bcass** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:46 pm

Balzac wrote:
bcass wrote:Maybe we should get someone who can read/write Japanese to compose a polite email which could be sent? With them being such a small company there's probably more chance of it being read by someone who can do something about the situation.
Cave is well aware there's a market interested in their games outside Japan.

The problem is that Mihara and company are ethnocentric wankers who could give two shits about shmupers outside Japan. Profiting off us isn't even an incentive for them. Simply put, they could care less that they even have foreign fans. With the exception of French Bread, the doujin community has the same attitude. Small time PC publishers have shot off emails to ZUN and the like about english localizations and most have either not replied or politely declined.

Getting back to Cave though, these ports are going to come out and they'll likely be region locked just to keep us from playing them. Then there's a good chance that if any publisher approaches Cave concerning an NTSC-U/PAL release, they will either outright say no or purposely charge a licensing fee so prohibitively expensive that no publisher could profit from it without charging full retail per title.

So either start saving for that Japanese 360, or pray that SH3 is finally emulated in the coming year.

I doubt a lot of that is actually true. Besides, I was talking about emailing the company doing the port, not Cave directly.

SuperGrafx · Post by **SuperGrafx** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:10 pm

Necronom wrote:
Exactly my thoughts. I'm also pretty sure that an xbla release would result in better profits and 5pb probably knows this - it's not only the manufacturing costs but also shelf space that costs money. However, one thing that is probably working against it is the whole procedure of "green lighting" an xbla release. I think it was Jeff Minter who wrote on his forums that MS turns a lot of stuff down and it takes ages to go through all the stages of that procedure. Maybe it easier to release a still profitable small print of discs than going the long and uncertain way of getting it "greenlighted" for xbla?

I heard some of the hang-ups for Minter were the fact that they had to localize the game in one shot (with outside assistance). I think a disc-based game doesn't have to go through this part straight away...if the decision is made or a third party picks up the game for a different region then localization resources are used. Not so with XBLA from what I gather.

Balzac · Post by **Balzac** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 5:59 pm

EOJ wrote:
Balzac wrote: Cave is well aware there's a market interested in their games outside Japan.
Yes, a very small one.

The market within Japan is small as well. What's your point?

The problem is that Mihara and company are ethnocentric wankers who could give two shits about shmupers outside Japan.
Mihara doesn't work for CAVE. Sounds like you're a bit confused.

Yeah, got mixed up with Ikeda. My bad.

That is not to say CAVE is not appreciative of the small number of foreigners who buy their arcade PCB kits. For example, they gave all foreign orders (and only foreign orders) of Mushihimesama Futari Black Label free worldwide express shipping last Christmas.

Now that I did not know! I guess you have a point.

Also keep in mind, once again, CAVE has nothing to do with these ports, so if you complain about them in this instance you're barking up the wrong tree. Whether 5pb (the publisher of these games!) or another publisher markets them abroad or not is not CAVE's matter to deal with. CAVE doesn't publish ports, after all.

It's still Cave's intellectual property though. Just because 5pb is developing the port and publishing inside Japan doesn't mean Cave wouldn't have some say regarding western licensing.

Sending an email to 5pb is worth a shot, but they'll probably just fire back with the usual "thank you for expressing interest but we have no plans for foreign release at this time".

We would probably be better off emailing a niche US publisher like Aksys and showing them our interest in hopes that they approach 5pb/Cave about obtaining the rights for a localization.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:16 pm

Balzac wrote:
EOJ wrote:
Balzac wrote: Cave is well aware there's a market interested in their games outside Japan.
Yes, a very small one.
The market within Japan is small as well. What's your point?

My point is the US market is so small it is not worth CAVE's time to try and market their games there. The market in Japan is much larger in comparison, by the way.

Necronom · Post by **Necronom** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:52 pm

SuperGrafx wrote:
Necronom wrote:
Exactly my thoughts. I'm also pretty sure that an xbla release would result in better profits and 5pb probably knows this - it's not only the manufacturing costs but also shelf space that costs money. However, one thing that is probably working against it is the whole procedure of "green lighting" an xbla release. I think it was Jeff Minter who wrote on his forums that MS turns a lot of stuff down and it takes ages to go through all the stages of that procedure. Maybe it easier to release a still profitable small print of discs than going the long and uncertain way of getting it "greenlighted" for xbla?
I heard some of the hang-ups for Minter were the fact that they had to localize the game in one shot (with outside assistance). I think a disc-based game doesn't have to go through this part straight away...if the decision is made or a third party picks up the game for a different region then localization resources are used. Not so with XBLA from what I gather.

Hmmm, good point. Haven't thought about that. I guess this "outside assistance" has also to be paid by the developer and not MS. Considering how many languages there are when it goes online on a worldwide scale that could end up being quite costly. Not that an arcade shooter would need that much of a localization anyway...

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:20 pm

According to IGN, these games are indeed full retail releases, not XBLA downloads. Relevant excerpt:

"That's right, in contrast to how Treasure is handling Ikaruga's release, 5pb. is giving these two shooters full packaged releases. That probably won't fly outside of Japan, so join us in hoping for, at the very least, downloadable versions of both titles."

Erinu · Post by **Erinu** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:06 pm

EOJ wrote:According to IGN, these games are indeed full retail releases, not XBLA downloads. Relevant excerpt:

"That's right, in contrast to how Treasure is handling Ikaruga's release, 5pb. is giving these two shooters full packaged releases. That probably won't fly outside of Japan, so join us in hoping for, at the very least, downloadable versions of both titles."

Sweet, I will definitely buy them.

To be honest, I hope they don't get localized and I hope they're both region locked to NTSC-J, too. Maybe it's because I have a Japanese 360, or maybe it's because people will bitch about the full retail price for them, how hard they are, how there's "only 5 levels", etc. Typical western reviewing stuff.

I think every 360 owner expects their retail purchases to be like Gears of War.

jp · Post by jp » Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:07 pm

I think... with my next paycheck... I'm going to snag a JP Xbox360 and Raiden Fighters Ace.

Post by **undamned** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:40 pm

Erinu wrote:...and I hope they're both region locked to NTSC-J

Yeah, 'cause that would totally ruin your gaming experience if they're region free.
-ud

bcass · Post by **bcass** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:59 pm

Indeed. Hoping that they are region locked sounds like the most embarresingly elitist thing to hope for.

orange · Post by **orange** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:25 pm

Erinu wrote:i'm a stupid douchebag and if westerners don't like my shmup then it clearly hinders my gameplay experience even though i like the game

OdiousTrident · Post by **OdiousTrident** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:56 pm

It is possible to change a 360's region via firmware. There are some tutorials online that don't look difficult. Also the chance that we'll be able to get past the region lock signatures before the release date for these titles is not small.

cody · Post by **cody** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:00 pm

OdiousTrident wrote:It is possible to change a 360's region via firmware. There are some tutorials online that don't look difficult.

Seriously, link please?

bcass · Post by **bcass** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:37 pm

Last I heard, you needed to desolder a chip from the 360s PCB to change region:

http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/18/xbox ... me-region/

If this hack is detectable via Live then it's going to be pretty useless anyway, as half the fun of these games is all the online leaderboard stuff.

Erinu · Post by **Erinu** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:42 pm

orange wrote:
Erinu wrote:i'm a stupid douchebag and if westerners don't like my shmup then it clearly hinders my gameplay experience even though i like the game

undamned wrote:
Erinu wrote:...and I hope they're both region locked to NTSC-J
Yeah, 'cause that would totally ruin your gaming experience if they're region free.
-ud

bcass wrote:Indeed. Hoping that they are region locked sounds like the most embarresingly elitist thing to hope for.

Cry more, you're all going to be importing JP 360s.

Also all three of you missed my point. Fail.

Also lol @ "embarresingly"

OdiousTrident · Post by **OdiousTrident** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:46 pm

Of course your system will need to be flashed. But here it is.

http://www.xbox-scene.com/xbox1data/sep ... xnbxII.php

Also there really is not a lack of people capable of flashing a 360. I live in NY now and have seen a few. There are reputable groups online who will do the hardware changes necessary as well.

Post by **undamned** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:52 pm

Erinu wrote:Cry more, you're all going to be importing JP 360s.

I'm not crying. I do intend to buy a JP 360 or whatever it takes to play Ketsui/DOJ BL. I'm just saying that you are an ass.
-ud

Erinu · Post by **Erinu** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:04 pm

undamned wrote:
Erinu wrote:Cry more, you're all going to be importing JP 360s.
I'm not crying. I do intend to buy a JP 360 or whatever it takes to play Ketsui/DOJ BL. I'm just saying that you are an ass.
-ud

Because I don't want hundreds of Americans to end up picking this up in Gamestop, buying it, and regretting it? And reviewers pointing out how it's "too hard, not long enough, not worth the price", etc?

dang.

There isn't even 100 people on this forum who would wait for a localization.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:14 pm

Also all three of you missed my point. Fail.

Big talk for someone who constantly misses his own and/or has no point.

Because I don't want hundreds of Americans to end up picking this up in Gamestop, buying it, and regretting it?

Why do you give a shit about what others think? That's what right-wing conservatives do.

szycag · Post by **szycag** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:29 pm

Erinu wrote:There isn't even 100 people on this forum who would wait for a localization.

The correct word here would be "aren't"

Dale · Post by **Dale** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:30 pm

Erinu wrote:
undamned wrote:
Erinu wrote:Cry more, you're all going to be importing JP 360s.
I'm not crying. I do intend to buy a JP 360 or whatever it takes to play Ketsui/DOJ BL. I'm just saying that you are an ass.
-ud
Because I don't want hundreds of Americans to end up picking this up in Gamestop, buying it, and regretting it? And reviewers pointing out how it's "too hard, not long enough, not worth the price", etc?

Buying a game I know I'm going to love for 15 bucks 3 months after it comes out is never any good.

Necronom · Post by **Necronom** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:32 pm

"Because I don't want hundreds of Americans to end up picking this up in Gamestop, buying it, and regretting it? And reviewers pointing out how it's "too hard, not long enough, not worth the price", etc?"

That's indeed very kind of you. I'm sure Cave, 5pb and all the shmup players around the world appreciate your concern. Thanks

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:38 pm

Erinu's right: it would be a shame to experience the reception of Cave's finest here in America. But surely this evil would be outweighed by all the benefits. Some of us can afford to import a 360, but there are plenty that can't justify that kind of expense.