I also now refuse to call STG's by any other name, if we are going to be serious and give the Japanese a run for thier money and get a WR how about we stop calling them 'Shmups' WTF stupid word
You're right, maybe we should also start speaking japanese and eating only japanese food and wearing japanese clothing. You should probably also stop watching TV and movies unless they are japanese. This will definitely help you play better. I also stopped eating chips and switched to pocky, and now I have gotten to stage three in Gradius IV.
This about sum it up. May as well move to Japan too.
the only way I can see any form of social environment for arcade games is to get a co-op set up and rent a small studio space for a private , members only arcade, charge a yearly membership and a cheap price to play the cabs.
eeven better, get a group of co-ops contry wide, and rotate the games through each.
re: shmups - its a fucking stupid sounding term.. do SFIII players call their genre "bmups?" - - shooters, STG's whatever.. it's better than THAT.
If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times. The best phrase to use is "scrolling shooters". Most people can figure out what that is in about 10 seconds. If not just say, "like Gradius and Galaga" and if they are younger than about 45 they will get it.
doctorx0079 wrote:If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times. The best phrase to use is "scrolling shooters". Most people can figure out what that is in about 10 seconds. If not just say, "like Gradius and Galaga" and if they are younger than about 45 they will get it.
Some retailers in Florida would refer to them as "top-down shooters". A pretty accurate assesment, if you discredit the horizontal ones.
I definitely discredit the horizontals. I only like about... 5 of them, and not enough to play them as much as I do verts. Scrolling shooter works well though.
just easy access to the games and the willingness to spend $1500 a month (one of the players on the Mushi Futari DVD stated he spent about that much in the first month of the game's release) honing your skills at your game of choice.
Good lord, he could save himself loads of money by getting a home setup o_O
After reading through the WR Thread, i seriously think we have no chance of getting anywhere near the level the Japanese are at with thier STG play.
I mean these guys have groups they go to Arcades with and share information and tips etc...
Talk about divide and conquor we Westerners are so scattered around the world and the Arcade scene is virtually non existant, we have no chance.
I also now refuse to call STG's by any other name, if we are going to be serious and give the Japanese a run for thier money and get a WR how about we stop calling them 'Shmups' WTF stupid word
^All very true. Although two or three Westerners on this site have achieved some very close results.
As for the term S###ps, I've never used it. Its just a term created by one of the UK magazines in the late 80s. Its always been Shoot'em up for as long as I've known the genre (1978/9). STG in Japan.
Warp_Rattler wrote:Just out of curiousity, why the backlash against 'shmups' as a word?
For me it just sounds a little silly on a purely phonetic basis. When I tell people who don't know the word my hoppy, I do feel a little daft. I'm not sure why, as it's not like the word suggests anything else in particular.
Perhaps the dislike of the word comes from the frustration at loosing the original name 'shoot-'em-up' to the FPS...
EDIT: Like Doctorx0079 I prefer 'scrolling shooters' as a moniker.
"Shooting Game" works fine for me. I dont object to shmup, but its something that looks okay in print and on the internet but sounds dumb in conversation. I dont use it for the same reason I dont say "Ess Tee Gee" or "Doubleyou-Tee-Eff".
Actually, "Sly Cherry Chunks" sounds idiotic when you say it out loud.
just easy access to the games and the willingness to spend $1500 a month (one of the players on the Mushi Futari DVD stated he spent about that much in the first month of the game's release) honing your skills at your game of choice.
Good lord, he could save himself loads of money by getting a home setup o_O
I think this is where western philosophy and Japanese philosophy differs. He sees value in being able to hang out in a public place and play games, maybe after work or with some friends. Someone in the U.S. wants to save money and play the game at home, maybe still with friends but only with people they know. I know that I used to love the arcade atmosphere, and used to drop $5-10 at the arcade pretty regularly when it had games that I liked to play. I always felt it was worth it until online play came about, because that was really the only way to find good fighting game players that you haven't played before.
For fighters I can understand only wanting to play in an arcade, you need that steady stream of good players to fight against. But if its a shmup why not play at home?
because if you're dad isnt a CEO, and youre still at school / under 25 or so - you'll be living in a shoebox sized apartment, with no privacy and nowhere to hang out with friends, so you spend the evening at the ge - sen smoking and playing games you could never play at home, because a cabinet in a japanese apartment is pretty uncommon, its only for the true hardcore.
its the reason love hotels are also popular, if you're young, there's simply no "your place or mine?" social interaction is enforced through a need to get out of the house cos its either not yours or fucking tiny.
stanski wrote:I know that I used to love the arcade atmosphere, and used to drop $5-10 at the arcade pretty regularly when it had games that I liked to play.
There is something about interpersonal relations that come with playing in the arcades. If there was Player 2, you expected that player to be somewhat as competent on you. But it also worked vice-versa where the other player could actually be more experienced than you are.
I'm starting to miss games like Magician Lord & Golden Axe. There was a sense of progression in arcade platformers that sort of doesn't translate as well in other genres...
That said, shmups make more sense at home when it comes to practice sessions. It's more economical that way.
For fighters I can understand only wanting to play in an arcade, you need that steady stream of good players to fight against. But if its a shmup why not play at home?
The answer to that is simple, if you've ever played a shoot'em up in front of a crowd in an arcade.
For fighters I can understand only wanting to play in an arcade, you need that steady stream of good players to fight against. But if its a shmup why not play at home?
The answer to that is simple, if you've ever played a shoot'em up in front of a crowd in an arcade.
Listen to DEL, he knows the score on this one. I'm convinced the arcade environment is a sizeable factor in the awesomeness of the best japanese players. I remember back in the 1980s when we had good arcades back in my hometown; a lot of progression on new games came from the large number of people watching the games being played, coming up with new ideas and immediately trying them out - it's possible to improve incredibly quickly when playing this way and of course playing in front of an audience often helps a player raise his game.
Sitting at home, playing on your own and watching superplays of inhuman skill is a poor substitute for a real arcade.
For fighters I can understand only wanting to play in an arcade, you need that steady stream of good players to fight against. But if its a shmup why not play at home?
The answer to that is simple, if you've ever played a shoot'em up in front of a crowd in an arcade.
Yeah - it's nerve wracking at first, but it's the best fun once you get used to it. Being in the crowd is cool too, and great for learning. Beats youtube videos hands-down.
You just can't beat the noise, atmosphere and thrill of an arcade, even with cabs at home...
Syndicate wrote:I live in a city that has a huge asian community, so there's an arcade with lots of japanese machines. Aren't I lucky?
For Syndicate,
You're lucky to have such an arcade with such Japanese arcade cabinets...can't say that about the local arcade hangouts around in my area. ^_~
The social atmosphere of an arcade & playing with complete strangers -- those qualities are missing from what one owning/playing such arcade cabinets at home (which is a very different experience, of course).
If you stop & ponder a bit, you'll eventually realize you're the owner, manager, customer & player all rolled up into one person if you can afford such an personal arcade with such full-sized American or Japanese cabinets for home use... ^_~
The social atmosphere of an arcade & playing with complete strangers
There's pretty much no such thing as playing complete strangers in the arcade I've been going to for the last 22 years. But I do appreciate that a lot of arcades now and in the past are/were soulless with no community of players.
Luckily there's no such void where I live.
while there's a lot of truth in what del and others are saying, it's worth mentioning that a lot of the top-tier shooter maniacs in japan play in dingy and/or small arcades because they don't want other people around them (nobody stealing your patterns, not having to cue up to play a credit, no distractions, etc). and one of the garegga WR's was set by a player at home on a supergun. and the doj bl WR was set by a player who practiced at home on a supergun.
RegalSin wrote:Videogames took my life away like the Natives during colonial times.
and one of the garegga WR's was set by a player at home on a supergun. and the doj bl WR was set by a player who practiced at home on a supergun.
Yes of course that would be true. You're talking about guys capable of getting WRs though, so that's a tiny minority of Eastern players. It takes both arcade learning (from other good players in a live environment, as RAM said) and hermit playing at home.
So the answer is:- Do both......if you can.
Looks like I better add a new term to BulletMagnet's Unofficial Shm#p Glossary:- HP = Hermit Play - denoting scores gained from hermit play at home.
There's an excellent post on SRK about Japanese vs Western arcades. I will have to dig it up and link to it from here.
The basic gist of it is this:
The west has lots of space. Large houses are a commodity, and owning consoles is a convenient thing. Similarly traveling to a friends house to play games is socially acceptable, as well as convenient for parking (and young westerners generally own more cars per capita).
Japan on the other hand doesn't have a lot of space. Small houses and apartments are common, and inviting your mates around for a gaming session is not only difficult, but considered a little socially rude (particularly if you live with flatmates or family). Traveling to city centers is easier for most who don't own cars, as they can take trains and busses far more easily than finding transport out to the 'burbs. Arcades are still social meeting places for friends, as opposed to just playing with nameless strangers.
Compare and contrast the two social aspects of each culture, and it's easy to see why arcades survive in one and flounder in the other.
