edit:This thread is not about ME making a top 25.
The goal is to split the thought process required to rate a game from 1% to 100% (in order to compare it to other games rated with the same system). The games are rated based on specific aspects, each having its own weight towards total score
I was thinkng about how to sort my favorite shmups from 1 to 25 (or 1 to 50) without forgetting stuff and keeping it as objective as possible.
So I made a spreadsheet, with calculations for weighted averages and about 200 common shmups listed by developer, heres what it looks like
The way it works: you input the blanks and the rest gets filled up with weighted average (mean) calculations, you can also change the weight of every aspect at any time.
The scores you see are only as examples to show the weighted averages. This is a very rough version, If anyone got any ideas to make it better please go ahead and tell me.
also if anyone is interested I could host the spreadsheet in Openoffice or Ms Excel format
edit: I just noticed I wrote Learing Curve instead of Learning Curve so no need to point that out
Last edited by nimitz on Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Hmm do you do that often? posting offensive shit then editing out your posts ceph?
for those who care here are the original posts from Ceph..
also to reply to your "argument", the main problem is that there are many shmups i like and im really not sure wich one should be in say 22nd place. People with OCD will understand...
I edited my posts and sent you an apology via pm 10 minutes ago. I mistook you for DarkMoon because of the similar avatar.
I'm terribly sorry, I mistook you for another user. I've edited the comments and deleted the quote I wrongly attributed to you, but which was really from a post by someone else.
Nice of you to still post this screenshot, though.
Last edited by Ceph on Thu Feb 28, 2008 7:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
nimitz wrote:Hmm do you do that often? posting offensive shit then editing out your posts ceph?
No I don't, and I also don't falsely accuse people of things they didn't do, that's why I deleted the wrong quote and parts related to it. It's pretty low to post a screenshot after I apologized and explained.
If someone says racist stuff on this forum (or any forums) the mods/admins will take care of it with him in private, you don't have anything to do with that...
Even if you really mistook me for somone else, its no reason to troll a thread up and post fake racist quotes. Even in off topic this would be bad, I don't even go to the off-topic forum to avoid this kind of BS...
I had wanted to say this (but with wit, too late now):
tl:dr ver: You want this to be objective? Weighted systems introduce another level of bias, where you seem to want to strip it away, and cloud the inner workings of your system. Tallies are useful when comparing like items or sets of data coming from like sources (for example, statistics from ball teams), usually things that can be objectively counted. What makes reviews worthwhile are not the numbers, but the arguments a player/critic makes.
Longer form:
'How good a shmup is' cannot be counted by picking up balls on the other side of a fence (unless Hori, Nintendo, and BATA get involved). What really counts are reasons, and it's a mistake to try to distill those into numbers.
To put it brutally: I don't care about your opinions (an assumption a reader will make), so why should I care about your numbers (from which I can only guess at your opinions)? Try to give interesting opinions, instead.
You would be better served putting your mental energies into clearly explaining your choices, if you feel that you have an audience which can be persuaded to care (at this point that's up in the air). Moving back a step from the brink of flamewar, wrapping a bunch of subjective choices about weighting things will make things less clear.
Magazine ratings systems are necessary partly because most readers want an all-purpose indicator at a glance, and also (to a smaller degree) because magazines often employ retards and in large groups all at once, so they need to be corralled into some form of system. Give your thoughts free expression; don't straitjacket yourself (not yet; I'm not about to give up on you yet) with an anti-expressive system so you can pretend you're making it in the big leagues.
nimitz, Ceph is giving some great points and you're responding badly, although I now wish I had posted first because of the lulz and derailments that are transpiring (Erinu, the Forum's renowned arbiter of good taste and justice, seems to be working an angle, although I don't know if he and Ceph have a history, so let's move right along).
nimitz wrote:If someone says racist stuff on this forum (or any forums) the mods/admins will take care of it with him in private, you don't have anything to do with that...
Yeah, that kind of racist shit doesn't fly on the Internet. Everyone is treated with respect and dignity, and any problems that arrive are handled by universally benevolent moderators with the maturity befitting their storied post.
Oh, i think some people got the first post wrong...
Its not about ME doing a top 25 for people to see.
its about making a system to compare games. "words" can be used (by that i mean ideas, that could be writen yes) to rate every aspect from 1 to 100.
The goal is to split the thought process required to rate a game from 1% to 100% (in order to compare it to other games rated with the same system). The game is rated based on every specific aspect, each having its own weight towards total score
Even though it might be good for me to use such a system I think it's way too much work.
I probably keep on editing the scores until infinity.
For these top lists I just write down what comes up in my mind and I'm already annoyed if I can't make it till 10 instantly.
So I think such a system would only be of any use for yourself if you would have trouble remembering your favorites merely because of the time it takes.
All errors are intentional but mistakes could have been made.
And let's not forget about the small problem of first developing a system that would produce exact values for each aspect of each game. Don't tell me you'd simply "guess", because then the result would be the same as sane people get by ranking their favorites according to feeling.
I replaced "Fun factor" with gamplay and im still making changes to the rating aspect (let alone the weight). the pictures in the first post show a very early version.
And let's not forget about the small problem of first developing a system that would produce exact values for each aspect of each game.
That IS the point. Instead of rating the whole game at once based on your "feelings" you rate every aspect based on your "feelings". then choose a specific weight for those aspects.
The problem is, a game can be more than the sum of its parts. Numbers can say a lot, but I'd rather have someone tell me about how a game's mechanics work and how well they're implemented than see an arbitrary number with the label "gameplay."
Don't get me wrong, numbers can help as a quick reference alongside a well-written review. However, tossing a bunch of numbers around by themselves doesn't mean a whole lot.
The problem is, a game can be more than the sum of its parts.
thats the biggest problem with the system. doesn't seem to be a way around that though.
EDIT: or is there? I just thought of a little something
I could make that if any aspect of a game is rated over 95% or under 20% this specific aspect gains more weight towards the total score
example: The Music is weighted at 10% of the value of total score. But if you REALLY like/hate the music in say Darius Gaiden and give it a 99% or 5% the weight of the music aspect for darius gaidens goes up to say 25% of the total
(I know this would also introduce a whole new level of bias as a side effect.)
Last edited by nimitz on Thu Feb 28, 2008 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
