What are the best Nintendo DS RPG's?

[Pixel_Outlaw]

What are those dragon quest 'monster' games like? I always assumed they were some sort of 'collect and build up your monster' crap and not a real rpg.

Well the ones I've played were for GBC. The had the breeding system down way before pokemon and did it much better. The gameboy color ones had a central hub and randomized dungeons. I REALLY liked the games. Any monster could be bread with any other monster and you could even breed the bosses.

[BrianC]

Oh, FFIVA, that one pissed me off. They really fucked up the battle system.

I heard the EU version fixes the problems, but it seems the US only got the bugged version. I got the US one for cheap. I like the actual game, but the battle system is buggy. If you keep it on anything but the fastest speed, the enemies won't attack when they should. However, if you speed the battle system up, glitches like early turns or two turns in a row happen more often. I recommend FFV instead. No glitches, difficulty intact, music that is good for GBA, a more polished translation than the previous US FFV, and some nice extras.

[nlen83]

Just gonna throw my fav's out there...I've owned just about all of them.

Castlevania Dawn of Sorrow (totally agree with the comment about this being more enjoyable then the second one...i dont ever play portrait although I still own it)

Golden Sun 1 + 2 (if you beat the first game you can use a code the game gives you to allow your characters from part 1 to be playable in the second game...these are really classic style rpgs..really fun combat)

Final Fantasy VI Advance (classic FF...one of the most popular FF's ever made)

Summon Night Swordcraft Story 2 (this game plays similar to the legend games and throws in some weapon crafting etc...definetely a great gba game)

Mario and Luigi Partners in Time (have to give this game some credit..it is a solid all around rpg that makes good use of the touch screen on the DS ..easily one of the best RPG's on the system)

yea theres a lot more but those are worth mentioning...PLUS be ready for the future with games like:

FFT A2: Sealed Grimoire, Front Mission 2089, Mystery Dungeons: Shiren, Rondo of Swords, Sonic Chronicles: Dark Brotherhood, The World Ends with you...etc

[Mortificator]

Oh, FFIVA, that one pissed me off. They really fucked up the battle system.

I heard the EU version fixes the problems, but it seems the US only got the bugged version. I got the US one for cheap. I like the actual game, but the battle system is buggy. If you keep it on anything but the fastest speed, the enemies won't attack when they should. However, if you speed the battle system up, glitches like early turns or two turns in a row happen more often. I recommend FFV instead. No glitches, difficulty intact, music that is good for GBA, a more polished translation than the previous US FFV, and some nice extras.

I completely agree, FF5 was the best-made of the GBA Final Fantasy re-releases. I don't like the original game as much as 4 and 6, but it definitely got a quality port.

[CMoon]

Regarding Dawn of Sorrows--I wanted to jump on the band wagon here and say that so far at least (10 hours in or so) this one has the most compulsive gameplay of any of the handheld Castlevanias I've played so far. Between the different soul configurations (and soul combos), weapon synthesis, and plenty of secrets and even a few puzzles, this one has really kept me coming back to the DS. I hope portrait of ruin is good, but it has some big shoes to fill after this one.

[jp]

I picked up Etrian Odyssey (we still had one at the store I work at) and Izuna the other day.

Etrian Odyssey is alright. I just wanted a good time waster on the DS, and this seems like it will fit the bill. Seems like a lot of level grinding is going to be necessary though, but then again, its an Atlus game, so what else is new eh?

Don't like Izuna at all. So I guess I hate the rogue-like dungeon crawling genre. The gameplay in its entirety just sucks to me.

I'll probably take it back today and see about Front Mission or something.

Though what I REALLY want is the new Mistwalker/Artoon game Away. That sounds like its going to be really cool.

[Asherdude]

I picked up Pokemon Diamond yesterday. And to my surprise, I'm enjoying it. But, of course, I like Izuna too.

[Erinu]

Etrian Odyssey is overrated and if you don't like Wizardry, you're going to hate it.

[Gwyrgyn Blood]

Don't like Izuna at all. So I guess I hate the rogue-like dungeon crawling genre. The gameplay in its entirety just sucks to me.

Frankly all of the 'roguelike' games for DS (and almost all consoles) are total garbage. Good ones on PC have shittons of depth and take a long time to get good at.

Etrian Odyssey is overrated and if you don't like Wizardry, you're going to hate it.

Gotta agree with this. EO is really two steps back for every step forward it takes from Wizardry. It's a good game to play in short intervals though over a long period of time though.

[CMoon]

Well I loved Wizardry, so we'll see...

[neoalphazero]

Soma Bringer! Seems it's an action RPG and it's looking very promising.

http://insomnia.ac/news/2008/02/soma-br ... g-awesome/

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ds/ybsj/

This is the one I'm waiting for. One of the few good uses of DS 3D. There's a decent amount of games on the horizon, FF IV, Ys 1 and 2, Kinghts of the Nightmare, Front Mission 2089, etc. *-neo

[RoninBuddha]

this may be a small time release, but dungeon explorer was just out. its nothing really amazing, and it looks mediocre, but its the closest thing to diablo2 minus the random dungeons...

also, it has multiplayer mode, which is pure fun oldschool hack and slash
trailer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yru3R8MFq6Q

[CMoon]

For what it's worth, Etrian Odyssey DOES appear to be my thing--it is hardly an advance on Wizardry in anyway, which is just about what I've been looking for. With the sequel coming out sometime soon and DQ9 on the horizon, the DS may turn out to be a real nice console for my tastes.

[Thunder Force]

A much better game in the same genre is Wizardry: Tales of the Forsaken Land for PS2

Wow, another person who loved this...

Busin 0 is unfortunately entirely in Japanese

I was so very, very disappointed they never translated this TotFL follow-up.

Wizardry 8 there's always that, but that's for PC.

Guess I should probably get around to trying W8. Bought it years ago but left it unopened for a rainy day...

After being captivated by TotFL though, I was just waiting for them to release more JP-dev console Wizardries. It's been frustrating seeing the countless untranslated Wizardry chapters in Japan (PS2s, PSP, DS...), that were never released in the west. I was predicting that someone would eventually try to bring a couple of them out in the west, riding the success of the firstperson RPG lately (Oblivion)... but they all remained JP-only.

[CMoon]

Seriously:

Wizardry 7 > Wizardry 8 >>>> Tales of the Forsaken Land

Wizardry 7 is really in a league of its own (makes me wish I'd put more time into Wizardry 6). Unfortunately this is PC only.

[Gwyrgyn Blood]

Wizardry 7 is the least playable Wizardry-type game I've ever played. I mean it's ugly, clunky, tedious, and unfriendly to new players. The core game is not that bad, but it does its very best to stop you from getting into it. Doesn't help trying to play in DosBox either.

TotFL is a very good game in the series. It has a very nice dungeon (except for the random floors anyway), good graphics, and a nice combat system. The story is alright, although the writing is poor in places (especially the first floor), but has some really good elements in places. All of the extra quests and such add a lot of flavor to the game as well.

Wizardry 8 is really good but very different of course. Lots of nice touches with the interface and character interaction. Fun combat system, good (if a bit exploitable) character system. Biggest problem with this one is the earlymid-game gets really bogged down by random combat during travel until you get some good portals setup to recall to.

[CMoon]

Wizardry 7 is the least playable Wizardry-type game I've ever played. I mean it's ugly, clunky, tedious, and unfriendly to new players. The core game is not that bad, but it does its very best to stop you from getting into it. Doesn't help trying to play in DosBox either.

You just aren't hard core enough!!1!

Seriously, if you you cut your teeth on games like Wizardry 1, 7 was the most advanced, elaborate of the lot--Wizardry 7 Gold actually included auto mapping (a first!) and the story was incredible.

The truth is that while W8 is good, it is toned down a bit from 7 and the plot isn't nearly is good, plus no real dungeons.

Anyway, I have to pull rank here and first point out that the PS2 isn't a real Wizardry game. It isn't by Sir-Tech and it is, if anything a homage to Wizardry. A lot of the game mechanics that are in the original games are absent. That said, maybe I can still ebay up a copy and give it another go; but I strongly disagree with the idea of it being better or even on par with the actual sir-tech titles.

So part of this is perspective. If you are coming from the old Wizardry games, there is a nice evolution where 7 is clearly one of the best things in an RPG and it has forever spoiled me against console RPGs (to this date, about the only series I consistently like is Dragon Quest) while I think if you are coming from the console perspective, the old Wizardry games must feel incredibly draconian.

Anyway yeah, I would put 7 gameplay wise against any other rpg for story, gameplay and deep mechanics. It takes the dungeon crawling idea as far as it can go I think. Of course it probably looks and sounds ugly now. It isn't like I play it any more (though certainly I put a couple hundred hours into it.) If only other games could live up to this standard!

[Gwyrgyn Blood]

Unfortunately I missed most of the good PC RPGs back when they were coming out. Bard's Tale was about the only one I got a chance to play. Wizardry 8 was in fact the first Wizardry game I played, and so yeah, trying to get into 7 was a massive pain in the ass. I found even other similar games at the time to be a lot more accessible (like EotB, LoL, UUW, and such).

I will agree TotFL is really an homage to Wizardry more than a direct successor or anything. It shares many similar qualities to the earlier games but diverges in a completely different direction. Personally I like it quite a lot, it has a very unique personality as far as PS2 RPGs go.

Maybe one day I'll finish Wizardry 7 though. I seem to play it a lot like I did Captive... where I will start up and get completely raped, then pick the game up later and get slightly farther, repeat until finally able to get through the damn thing.

Not that Captive was beatable or anything. Fuck that game.

[jp]

From what I'm reading, it seems like Wizadry is a lot like Elder Scrolls in so far as fan preferences. Like, with Elder Scrolls, your casual fan will almost certainly prefer Oblivion, but the hardcore Elder Scrolls fan knows Morrowind is the far better game.

[Gwyrgyn Blood]

Well, in so much that Wizardry 8 is maybe a bit less deep than 7 but is infinite more approachable, I guess that's true.

And while I'd say I'm a fan of TES and all, I'd still take Oblivion over any of the other games in the series. With mods and the expansions, that is. Vanilla Oblivion is pretty god awful.

[Ganelon]

Like, with Elder Scrolls, your casual fan will almost certainly prefer Oblivion, but the hardcore Elder Scrolls fan knows Morrowind is the far better game.

I dunno about that. Hardcore TES fans who don't mod do know that Daggerfall is better than any of the later games though.

And yeah, I'm with you, CMoon (rather than the many folks nowadays who tend to prefer both W8 and TOTFL). Wizardry Gold was IMO the ultimate installment of the series (and really, none of them could be remotely considered technologically advanced when they were released). Then again, I'm no hardcore Wizardry fan; everything before Wizardry VI seems too unbearing to play. And of course, everybody's forgotten about Nemesis, that 5-disc awkward mess.

[CMoon]

Well all that said; I'm really enjoying Etrian Odyssey. I have my party up to about level 8/9 and have beaten the first FOE. My only annoyance is that the skills aren't particularly balanced and if you don't want to have to re-level up characters, you pretty much have to go to the FAQs (since the in-game descriptions are too vague.)

That said, everything I've ready about Etrian Odyssey 2 looks stellar. I keep returning to this idea that games of this sort REALLY work on a handheld, where I am not so attracted to the idea of portable action games.

[Thunder Force]

I keep returning to this idea that games of this sort REALLY work on a handheld, where I am not so attracted to the idea of portable action games.

Hack & slash dungeon crawls in general feel perfect on handhelds. Some notables among the many I've picked up are:

Dungeon Siege, PSP - spectacular in many areas, difficulty too low.
Untold Legends 2, PSP - tries hard, decent story and features, but mediocre all around.
Alien Syndrome, PSP - starts off bad, gets better, and unique setting for this type of game.
Children of Mana, DS - nice art, but weird object-physics combat kinda ruins it.
Return Of The King, GBA - surprisingly good Diablo-clone crammed into a tiny GBA cart.
Ys Arc of Naphistim, PSP - appealing throwback to 16-bit era style, marred by load-times.
X-Men Legends II, PSP - nice port of console game, for fans of the characters.
Tales of the World: Radiant Mythology, PSP - bit like Children of Mana with full 3d graphics plus Star Ocean 3-ish combat.
Bounty Hounds, PSP - fairly decent portable PSO-clone also a lot like the upcoming Too Human for X360.

Now if only I can find a translation faq for PSP Wizardry Empire III...

[Ed Oscuro]

Like, with Elder Scrolls, your casual fan will almost certainly prefer Oblivion, but the hardcore Elder Scrolls fan knows Morrowind is the far better game.

I dunno about that. Hardcore TES fans who don't mod do know that Daggerfall is better than any of the later games though. 8)

Hardcore TES fans who do mod know that there's very few good Morrowind mods that are compatible with the other mods.

Also, the saves always got screwed up. ALWAYS. Both games too. Hope that gets fixed in FO3.

[MR_Soren]

Etrian Odyssey is alright. I just wanted a good time waster on the DS, and this seems like it will fit the bill. Seems like a lot of level grinding is going to be necessary though, but then again, its an Atlus game, so what else is new eh?

For what it's worth, my party is around level 50 in the fifth stratum, and I have never spent any time level grinding. (If level grinding means aimlessly wandering in circles solely to gain exp.) I've managed to gain sufficient exp while exploring, completing quests, and doing resource gathering runs.

Don't like Izuna at all. So I guess I hate the rogue-like dungeon crawling genre. The gameplay in its entirety just sucks to me.

I don't know if that's a good game for judging the entire genre. Try Angband on your PC.

[Ed Oscuro]

The problem with most games in the dungeon crawling genre is that it's been entirely superseded from a technological basis. See:

Dungeon Hack: You're in a dungeon. Go up and down levels!

Morrowind: Lots of dungeons, you can even go out of them!

You can make a dungeon crawler that's better than Morrowind, especially in the combat area. But there's no reason to limit the areas you can travel to, I think. Kinda turns "role playing" into "wall hitting simulation" :lol:

O&E wasn't bad, but it's just too darn short and the "tactics" are pretty paper-thin.

[Thunder Force]

The problem with most games in the dungeon crawling genre is that it's been entirely superseded from a technological basis. See:

Dungeon Hack: You're in a dungeon. Go up and down levels!

Morrowind: Lots of dungeons, you can even go out of them

Adding to a game doesn't make it supersede something simpler, just turns it into a different kind of game, with different pacing. See: Full 3D space shooters vs. 3D rail shooters. Hence why some game designers strip away unnecessary gameplay features, rather than pile them on. Morrowind is absolutely amazing, but the fact that in Champions Of Norrath you are automatically taken from one action zone to the next, without a sprawling world, is sometimes actually a good thing not a bad thing, when you're in the mood for non-stop action without repercussions. Try recreating that experience in Morrowind, and the game will not let you. (Not to mention the combat in CoN feels far more visceral.) And I've always felt some parallels between fighting endless hordes of "popcorn orcs" in hack & slash dungeon crawls, and the pacing of gameplay in a 2D shmup.

[Ed Oscuro]

I knew that was coming. I agree with the points you've made there, but I need to explain my (probably too convoluted) line of reasoning behind a post coming straight from a gut instinct/emotion. A quick note: The good port of a game which would've been outstanding on a cell phone but is mediocre at best on the DS - Orcs & Elves - is my re-introduction with the genre after missing basically all entries for a number of years, but I did play some of the older stuff out there, and I've been paying attention to reviews off and on throughout the years. If somebody really cares about all this, forge on and read the rest of what I have to say (your goal: make me look silly by proving me wrong! Enticing prospect, eh?).

My argument - which I should have expanded on earlier but didn't because I'm a coward and feared somebody would say it's wrong - is really that the artistic and player control dimensions of many 'dungeon crawlers' are awfully limited. You're absolutely right about Champions of N., of course, but my first question here is: why do many 'dungeon crawls' take place in a dungeon (and, often, just one)?

Phantasy Star Online had some great and well-structured arenas that also didn't look like total garbage (I've clocked 90 or so hours with one character offline in Ep. 1&2 on the GC - never did make it online, and haven't touched Universe, not even the PC demo). On the other hand, Orcs & Elves is incredibly restrictive - more so than most any other console offering in this field. Because it's a phone port (on that note, it's actually pretty well upgraded in the transfer), it gets a pass. Even the Eye of the Beholder series eventually wised up and moved outside part of the time (in part 3, I think). It doesn't help that O&E lacks the aesthetic qualities that led me to vegetate for so many hours with PSO, and so I think we can consider awarding such titles the "shovelware" moniker. O&E is a special case, but that makes it a curiosity on top of being rather crappy.

I think that even today too many games being labeled 'dungeon crawls' are pretty regressive, and perhaps the issue is that it's become a codeword in Game ReviewerVania for boring games. It seems reviewers fix that label on any game with slothful "action" better suited for an MMO like Star Wars Galaxies where the limits on player action make sense, but are entirely inappropriate for a game that doesn't have a reason to be slow (like Rogue, with its strategy, or Eye of the Beholder, CPU limited).

It also seems that a focus on clearing rooms and running about leaving piles of stones and rations (or legs of meat, in O&E's case) helps earn a game the proud "dungeon crawl" moniker. Perhaps this is a flaw of game reviews, but if you ask me the release of PSO should have given developers enough reason to eliminate most of the antiquated and mildly tiresome conventions that still get slapped right into games, right next to the budget Syphon Filter ripoffs that also seem to not want to die or evolve (some of them not even to the level of SF; remember that Infection game earlier from the PSP's lifespan?) due to their relative simplicity of manufacture.

Wow, I've said far too much, but maybe there's something worthwhile in there...maybe.

[Thunder Force]

If I understand what you're getting at, you're frustrated with underdeveloped games being passed off as deliberately minimalist. Well, I can think of a few cases where this is true (the lame Arkadian Warriors on Xbox 360 lately comes to mind). But in more cases than not, I've found more hits than misses among newly developed titles with retro design (or as you put it "regressive") sensibilities. Combining old school game design with new school technology, is best of both worlds in my view. Modern complex games still haven't mastered the art of good pacing, and I find poorly paced games incredibly annoying.

budget Syphon Filter ripoffs that also seem to not want to die or evolve (some of them not even to the level of SF; remember that Infection game earlier from the PSP's lifespan?)

I read this yesterday and took out my copy of Infected for PSP, which I bought at discount ages ago but hadn't really played. So I played about an hour of it yesterday, to see if this game is an example of what you're talking about. Well, the game looks and sounds like ass, but I found the gameplay involving strategic chaining of enemies somewhat addictive and enjoyable. (Not as well developed as top chainfests like P.N.03 and ps2 Shinobi/Kunoichi games, but not exactly bad either.)

[Ed Oscuro]

D'oh! Well, okay. Forums bring out the negative in me, what can I say?