Is Type-x gonna kill off Naomi?

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Wed May 04, 2005 6:48 am

RSG was an arcade game too.

ST Dragon · Post by **ST Dragon** » Wed May 04, 2005 9:45 am

gingerj wrote:
highlandcattle wrote:well lets do a count in upcomming shooters
Naomi:
Senko no ronde
Under defeat
Rajirugi
I know under defeat is erm that Helicopter title made by G.Rev but what are teh other two are their any screenies?
Thank you please....

Three new DC ports perhaps? I also heard the makes of Trizeal might be making a new one is well...

highlandcattle wrote: TypeX:
Raiden 3
Homura
Aren't Gigawing Generations and Shikigami no Shiro 3 on type x hardware also?

Senko no ronde isn't quite a shmup... some of the screenshots I've seen of it, remind me of Zone of Enders on PS-2.

But yes Shikigami No Shiro 3 is for Type X hardware.

Post by **system11** » Wed May 04, 2005 9:55 am

icepick wrote:Whoa, whoa whoa whoa. Saying that Type X will win in the end because developers won't have to optimize their code is bologna--The system would surely fail if that was the case. Slapping a faster processor in there to make up for sloppy code would not be the way to fly (though the capability makes sense in this scenario), and eventually the system would be completely inadequate and either the developers or the hardware engineers would have to start over.

High power hardware allowing people to write shoddy unoptimised code has been a cornerstone of PCs for many years now.

ST Dragon · Post by **ST Dragon** » Wed May 04, 2005 12:11 pm

Type X is very new to the scene, we'll have to wait & see.
Don't forget Atomis Wave either. Are they making any shmups for that?

gingerj · Post by **gingerj** » Wed May 04, 2005 12:13 pm

ST Dragon wrote:Type X is very new to the scene, we'll have to wait & see.
Don't forget Atomis Wave either. Are they making any shmups for that?

Not that I know of...

Valgar · Post by **Valgar** » Wed May 04, 2005 12:52 pm

Arc systems (guilty gear) is making a shmup, not sure if it is for atomiswave or NAOMI.

icepick · Post by **icepick** » Wed May 04, 2005 7:16 pm

bloodflowers wrote:High power hardware allowing people to write shoddy unoptimised code has been a cornerstone of PCs for many years now.

You could also phrase that as "high power hardware required because of people writing shoddy or unoptimized code has been a flaw of PCs for many years."

-And look at where it's gotten us! The hardware requirements for playing the newest PC games "properly" are obscene. If this happens in the arcade, we'll all be in trouble. Now, I know that we couldn't be certain of how things might've been if more attention had been paid to the software optimization side as opposed to the hardware development side, but... I admit that there is a balance. Limits can be inspiring, but so can a lack of such. I suppose that it all works out in the end.

(You might be able to tell that I was formulating a bunch of arguments, and then counter-arguments, and then... came up with a simple conclusion.

)

How well do you suppose that current shmup developers optimize their code? Especially the manic ones, with all of those bullets flying around in their predefined mathematical and sometimes variable directions... If we were to stick with "tried and tested hardware," would it run into a wall when the game system and logical functions are too complex to be handled by relatively less-powerful technology?

How about this: What if Giga Wing Generations was developed with a maxed-out Type X development platform, but an arcade had the game on a system with only a lower-end processor? I have no idea of whether or not this scenario is valid, but it's interesting to think about. "Arcade perfect" suddenly becomes a bit more complicated.

Valgar wrote:Arc systems (guilty gear) is making a shmup, not sure if it is for atomiswave or NAOMI.

Oh! I remember reading about this, but thought that it was going to be on Type X. I wonder if it'll be bitmap or polygon-based...

Valgar · Post by **Valgar** » Wed May 04, 2005 7:35 pm

The newer PC games have very low requirements.

ill6 · Post by **ill6** » Wed May 04, 2005 8:37 pm

Isn't Type X going to be a bit of a headfuck for home arcade fans? Does it not include different memory modules and video cards? I worry that owning Type X will be as complex as PC gaming; ultimatly scalable but overly complex.

gameoverDude · Post by **gameoverDude** » Thu May 05, 2005 3:51 am

I can see Naomi being just about limitless for 2D sprite games.

As for the GWG port- I wish Takumi would've delayed it somewhat so further code optimization and Tate could've been done. For the arcade, Type-X developers may be thinking "we've got all this power, we can optimize later".

highlandcattle · Post by **highlandcattle** » Thu May 05, 2005 3:49 pm

Have you guys ever considered that Takumi are just crap right know?For the last three years they've been make Pachinko Based Arcade games for Aruze (You know the company that fucked SNK in the a$$).Or that Taito game them a limited budget (taito had huge losses this year).The hardware is just the means to an end. Right know the best stuff is being made for Naomi.Maybe next year it'll be different

jp · Post by jp » Thu May 05, 2005 4:09 pm

Zhon wrote:Ikaruga was an arcade game...

Plus, sloppy code (well, "sloppy" isn't the word for it, but quickly-implemented, more like) is the way to go nowadays. With more complex features and powerful hardware, the time spent optimizing isn't worth it - the days of the superefficient code are left to the demo scene.

Erm... I was referring to recently. I know Treasure has done arcade games in the past, but what have they done arcade wise in the past 3 years?

Kiken · Post by **Kiken** » Thu May 05, 2005 5:19 pm

jp wrote:
Zhon wrote:Ikaruga was an arcade game...

Plus, sloppy code (well, "sloppy" isn't the word for it, but quickly-implemented, more like) is the way to go nowadays. With more complex features and powerful hardware, the time spent optimizing isn't worth it - the days of the superefficient code are left to the demo scene.

Erm... I was referring to recently. I know Treasure has done arcade games in the past, but what have they done arcade wise in the past 3 years?

Well, Treasure are predominantly a console game developer. They've only made 3 arcade games... one of which got canned about halfway through development (Gunbeat).

Given all of the various rumours and rumblings surrounding the possibility of Project RS3... maybe Hiroshi Iuchi simply wants to get his hands on a dev kit to see what he can do with the hardware.

Back to the topic though... until Type-X becomes as cheap and easy to design for as the Naomi, I doubt Naomi is going anywhere. It would make sense that the more established shmup devs are working with Type-X to try and see what they can (they have the income)... whereas the smaller companies are busy working with the less expensive (but still fairly powerful) and tested Naomi hardware. Not to mention that Naomi to all current consoles (including DC, obviously) must be a far easier and less time-comsuming port job than Type-X to all current consoles.

As for the Atomis Wave.. it really does seem like it's becoming the new Neo-Geo (read: fighting-game city).

Valgar · Post by **Valgar** » Thu May 05, 2005 6:02 pm

Hiroshi Iuchi is (or was) working on Gunstar Super Heroes I bet, since Maegawa wanted the original team on that.

llabnip · Post by **llabnip** » Wed May 11, 2005 5:41 pm

Kiken wrote:Given all of the various rumours and rumblings surrounding the possibility of Project RS3... maybe Hiroshi Iuchi simply wants to get his hands on a dev kit to see what he can do with the hardware.

Maybe... but Hiroshi Iuchi seems to be a pretty strong advocate of "if it ain't broke..." and he seems to be driven by extracting the maximum out of hardware when making good games. In his translated interview regarding Radiant Silvergun he says (among other things) "...Also, please treasure many games for your Sega Mega Drive and Saturn systems. A system's specs have nothing to do with what's needed for a person to enjoy a game."

It's an interesting quote and one retrogamers understand well enough.

gingerj · Post by **gingerj** » Thu May 12, 2005 1:52 pm

Senko no Ronde seems to be really pushing the Naomi hardware really well.

http://click-stick.com/game/ronde/video.htm
http://www.grev.co.jp/ronde/index.html

Act Cadenza looks really good too! Plus we've got Under defeat and
Rajirugi maybe theres life in it yet.

*Prays for 4 new DC ports

gigadrive32 · Post by **gigadrive32** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 3:13 pm

SEGA has at least 2, if not 3 new arcade boards coming

1.) Aurora: lowend board, powered by a Renesas Technology chipset with embedded Imagination Technology PowerVR MBX. from what I've read about Aurora, it will be more powerful than NAOMI and Atomiswave, but less powerful than NAOMI2. Aurora is meant to replace NAOMI and Atomiswave.
Aurora specs here: http://www.tinyurl.com/cwv3e (scroll 3/5 of the way down the page)

2.) Lindbergh: midrange to highend board using the first implementation of PowerVR Series 5. House of the Dead 4 runs on this board.

3.) System SP: - highend board using next-gen PowerVR technology: either newer Series 5 or the brand new PowerVR Eurasia, which is an extention of PowerVR Series 5. System SP board is meant to replace NAOMI 2

about the PowerVR chips:
*Dreamcast, NAOMI, NAOMI 2 and Atomiswave all use PowerVR Series2 chips. specifically, PowerVR2DC aka CLX2
(NAOMI 2 uses 2 of these chips plus a seperate geometry T&L processor called ELAN) PowerVR Series 2 dates back to 1997-1999.

*PowerVR Series 3 = KYRO, KYROII. (2000-2001) (not used by Sega)
*PowerVR Series 4 was canceled (2002?)
*PowerVR MBX (mobile PowerVR) (2002-2005) uses a mix of Series 3 and elements of canceled Series 4. there is MBX Lite, vanilla MBX, and MBX Pro . (Sega's Aurora probably uses MBX Pro).

* PowerVR Series 5 (2004-2005) was basicly finished in 2004 but was not put into production at that time. Series 5 is still meant to arrive (probably in the Lindbergh board)

*PowerVR Eurasia (2006) upgraded variant of Series 5 which *might* be used in Sega's highend System SP board... but I really don't know for certain what powers System SP.

Taito's TYPE X board is probably around the same level as SEGA's upcoming lowend Aurora board - maybe slightly more powerful. although TYPE X can probably be scaled upto the level that Sega's Lindbergh will occupy. but TYPE X will not come close to the System SP board.

hopefully we'll see some quality shmups on Sega's Aurora board, if not Lingbergh also.