Gamepad or Joystick?

[snap monkey]

Having never been close to any decent arcades, I've always played the majority of my videogames on home consoles with their appropriate gamepads (the one notable exception being FPSs on the PC; mouse/keyboard all the way, baby). However, I know there are a lot of arcade veterans on this forum who are joystick advocates to the max, and others who prefer them for whatever reason.

So what are the advantages and disadvantages of these two controller styles as far as shmups go? Is it just a matter of personal preference? Does using one or the other affect your technique? Not that I've had much joystick experience, but it would seem to me that a joystick would be clumsier to use than a normal controller, seeing as you'd have to move your whole hand to the side (a lot of work for your wrists) just to do what I could do with the flick of my thumb. I doubt this is a big factor though, as I've seen some amazing shmup and fighting game videos from players using sticks.

A lot of people complain about getting blisters from normal controllers, but I've developed quite the callus on my left thumb, so that's not a big deal for me. Also, it seems like if you want a stick that it's best to go for a high-quality one, which can set you back quite a bit of cash.

To give some perspective on where I'm coming from, my favorite pad of all time would have to be the stock SNES controller. Best d-pad ever, in my opinion. A close second would be the fabled Saturn pad, which I've become acquainted with recently. The PS2s isn't great but it get's the job done alright. I love the DC as a console, but it's controller is a complete piece!

[Neon]

I used to be an advocate of the Saturn pad, till I got my Sanwa stick.

The real difference is in fighters. It's an absolute joke to go back to them on a pad after you've used a stick, primarily because of the sweeping motions like down, down-forward, forward (HADOKEN! ).

For shmups I prefer the stick as well because I find it easier to tap in certain directions with, but a Saturn pad will do in it's absence.

However, a Saturn pad will own a low quality stick (i.e. A virtua stick) any day of the week.

[iatneH]

I'm only a recent shmup-o convert, but I am a rabid joystick fanboy.

My first shmup love was Ikaruga on Dreamcast, which I played with the stock pad and got semi-decent. Then I switched over to joystick (interestingly, I had purchased two PS1 joysticks from a bargain bin before I converted to shooters, hoping to use them for Guilty Gear XX, which I didn't) and at first I was horrible with them, since I had NEVER in my life played a shooter in an arcade before. But I stuck with the sticks and I swear by them.
I gain benefits from both hands. I can make much more precise small movements and smoother wide movements with the stick, and on the right hand I have all needed buttons immediately accessible.

Plus I can go into arcades and sit down and play without needing to get accustomed to the controls.

Weird thing is, I play mostly verts.... for horzi's like Parodius (probably the only horzi I played in an arcade aside from R-Type Leo) I'm still better with a pad....

[SheSaidDutch]

I've never bought a joystick but I hope to purchase one soon.

I would say joystick for precise and accurate movement, I play alot of fighters and I can see why I need a joystick for certain movements.

So...

Fighters,Shooters-Joystick
Everything else theres matercard *advert*

[Leeram]

I remember, way back when, that pads were virtually non existent in the UK. We all used Quickshot Pros or Kempston style joysticks.

Then one day I got a Super Famicom with this funny little pad thingy that "looked like the Intellivision controller I used to have, only the wrong way round". Could I play any games? No chance. Control was not possible, going up diagonally instead of right etc. I just could not get used to the pad.

Then over the next 20 years or so, I forgot all about joysticks, until I bought my Dreamcast and suddenly got the urge to use a stick for the beat 'em ups. I bought a DC stick.

Could I control anything? NO! and that's despite still using them in the arcades without any problems! I had got so used to the pads that I could not use the stick.

I then had problems switching my brain between different pads and different sticks all the time (depending on the game) but I eventually decided that sticks were definately:

a) more accurate in that you can nudge them by smaller movements
b) better for fire button access, i.e. you can reach the fire buttons easier
c) fire button tapability is improved (i.e. I can tap faster on them with fingers)
d) smoother in motion once you get used to them

So I bought an x-arcade, converted it to work every computer and console I own and is the only thing I use to play shoot 'em ups, beat 'em ups and platform games on all my computers (including my 8-bit computers).

I still use pads though for Racing games because digital sticks are pretty crap in analogue control games and I use keyboard mouse for PC 1st person games because if you don't you get creamed big style when playing online.

Cheers

Leeram

ps. you can see how I converted my x-arcade at www.eckychap.co.uk if you are interested, select technical stuff, then select the stick of everything project.

[Cugel]

I generally prefer sticks and own (1) a modded HORI Real Arcade Pro with Sanwa buttons and (2) HORI Special Edition with Seimitsu stick and buttons. Each stick is a bit different. For manic shmups, the HORI Special Edition is better but for everything else I prefer the HORI Real Arcade Pro.

I also own a Hanaho Hotrod (HAPP Supers) and an X-Arcade Solo. I used to be a diehard HAPP dude until I was won over by the Japanese sticks. It takes a week or so, but you won't go back.

I have adapters for my Genesis, Dreamcast, Saturn, and PC which allow me to use any PS2 controller.

When I'm too lazy to use my stick, I use gamepads. I really like the Genesis 6-button gamepad and of course the Saturn gamepad. The Saturn USB controller for the PC is great. It feels a little bit different from the original Saturn gamepad (lighter, buttons are easier to press), but it's a good substitute.

[Ord]

I just play a whole lot better when i use a stick, so it's joysticks all the way for me. I've got the Hori Tekken 5 & Soul Caliber II sticks and i'm contemplating on replacing the parts with Sanwa. A future project perhaps.

[RoninBuddha]

Joysticks, i have a DC and PS2 Hori sticks which i use for every game (whenever possible), whether be it fighting,shmup, racing, etc.. it's the closest thing to get the arcade feel with your consoles

[theevilfunkster]

ive only recently started using sticks but theres no way id go back to using a pad now. sticks just feel better and have much improved my shmup skills.

ps. you can see how I converted my x-arcade at www.eckychap.co.uk if you are interested, select technical stuff, then select the stick of everything project.

this is very interesting cos ive just bought a duel x arcade and was wishing that they would release some adapters for the saturn, snes and megadrive.

[raiden]

my story is similar to Leeram´s, at least the first part. Today I´m only using joysticks modded or belonging to the Neo Geo format, with converters for every other format. When I bought a Megadrive recently, I spent less than 15 minutes with the original controllers before setting out to building a converter.
Concerning the question which joystick is best, at least for me I´ve started doubting the overall consensus that Sanwa/Seimitsu is king. Still haven´t got one of my own, but played a few shmups and fighters on Naomi cabs and Sanwa modded joysticks, and while it´s definitely not bad, I´m still getting better results with the Neo Geo oldstyle joystick. It´s not quite as tight as Happ joysticks, but tighter than Sanwa/Seimitsu joysticks. The buttons are definitely worse than the arcade stuff, but as I prefer autofire wherever I can have it (considering to build a circuit for PCB use), the stick´s quality is more important to me.
Of course, Neo Geo sticks aren´t built anymore, so the problems in finding a new one won´t get better, but thankfully, there´s the new PS2 joystick which seems to be of similar quality, and I´m already considering to prefer that over a Hori RAP.

[mannerbot]

I'm still not used to sticks for shmups, but for fighters I won't ever play with a pad again if I can help it. I'll get used to using a stick pretty soon though.

I <3 joysticks.

[Guardians Knight]

saturn joypad all the way for me - for shooters.

if we are talking beat em ups then a joystick is preferable but surely we should be talking only about shoot em ups otherwise this topic is a bit broad for shumps chat? - not that im getting at anybody, just making an observation.

[snap monkey]

So does Sanwa sell any pre-manufactured joysticks for console use, or just quality parts and you get to make your own stick? I googled them a while back and didn't find much.

[mannerbot]

Sanwa doesn't make joysticks for consumer use. You'd have to buy the Sanwa parts and make your own stick or use them to mod an existing stick (himuragames.com if you want Sanwa parts). The Hori Real Arcade Pro comes with a Sanwa stick, and the Hori Real Arcade Pro Special Addition/Edition come with real Seimitsu/Sanwa parts, though. If you live in the US, you could head over to the shoryuken.com forums hardware forum and get a custom stick made.

[obxStorm]

I gotta say gamepad - just because I have no room for a decent joystick and, over the years, I've gotten very used to pads.

[kemical]

theres nothin like throwin all your weight into insane joystick manuevers on a cab playing shooters.

[icepick]

theres nothin like throwin all your weight into insane joystick manuevers on a cab playing shooters.

Oh? I imagine this is good fun when playing fighters, but with shmups, one would prefer quick, minor, controlled movements.



I myself use a pad, but have been planning on eventually getting a stick. I've always thought that getting one would be fun, but mostly for 2D and 3D fighters... and now, after getting into shooting games, I have another reason! I imagine that having a stick will be like playing in TATE--You can get by without it, and sometimes you might even feel like playing without it... but it can probably make a world of difference!

Hmm... I suppose I'll be covering all the bases by playing Senko no Ronde with a stick while laying down with the TV sideways?

[Skyline]

I use a stick for most of my shmups. Namco PS1/Hori Tekken 5 PS2, Hori Saturn, Agetec DC.

However for most 2D fighters, I'm much more proficient with a good d-pad. The same goes for certain shmups like Progear or ESP Ra.De.

[kemical]

Oh? I imagine this is good fun when playing fighters, but with shmups, one would prefer quick, minor, controlled movements.

well i guess it depends on the game but with some that i've memorized the first couple levels the type of motion just wouldnt be as fun on a pad for me.. but bosses and dense bullet stuff is another story.

but those near misses that make you cringe and slam the joystick in the opposite direction with a satisfying solid feeling..... thats good joystick action right there.

[Platypus[gEc]]

I've put pad because, well, i only have pads so that's how i play.
However, i'm saving up to get a stick
So if you post this poll again in, let's say, a month or two i'll answer with "stick" (hopefully)

[ST Dragon]

I'm still not used to sticks for shmups, but for fighters I won't ever play with a pad again if I can help it. I'll get used to using a stick pretty soon though.

I <3 joysticks.

That joystick is so cool!
Home made? PC compatible?

But...
Joypads all the way!

I prefer Joypads for my Console/PC Emu shmups especially Microsoft Sidewinder & Saturn Pads can't get any more accurate than that.

Joysticks are better for Beat Em Ups. No way to pull out the 64Hit Combos in KI & or CapSword in Marvel Vs Capcom with a pad, that's for sure.

[sjewkestheloon]

well my namco stick finally arrived today so STICK STICK STICK hehe

[Ex_Mosquito]

Stick user here too. DC modded with Sanwa JLF-TP-8Y stick and buttons for use on PC/Supergun/Xbox. I used pads at home throughout the late 80's and 90's and only really used sticks in the arcades, but i've been using a stick at home for about 4years now and havnt gone back. Using a stick just feels more fun, for me.

[professor ganson]

Just got the Agetec for DC, and so far I really love it. Mars Matrix finally feels somewhat playable--until I get to the 3rd level, then forget about it.

The difference for me so far has as much to do with the large buttons as with the stick itself. I somehow feel like my button pressing is more in control and precise with the stick. But also: I've always hated the d-pad and the analog stick on the DC pad. I almost prefer the GC controller, to be honest.

Perhaps I should be looking into a stick for the PS2 as well, though most of my favorite games on the PS2 seem to have analog control, and I assume that sticks are always digital. I find analog control quite nice in shmups.

[ryosnk]

I just got a three joystick one for each system (snes, PSone, and SS) and they rock in fighting games but I like my gamepads for shooters .

[fraggore]

I got a DC stick modded with Sanwa JLF-TP-8Y, sanwa buttons and got it converted to everything i own but i also really like the xbox official street fighter 4 pads even go as far as saying there better than the saturn pads as the buttons are all the same size and the pad is a bit bigger fells better in my hands.

Also in the middle of converting a dc stick to ps3 just waiting for the seimitsu stick to come in the post to give that a try, fancy seeing what the difference is compared to the sanwa stick.

[ratikal]

Saturn pad all the way man. I can use a stick, I have a HRAP EX-SE, but to me, the Saturn pad just feels right. On MAME at least.

I'm only good with the stick with DDP DFK, but once my Saturn Pad comes in the mail for my 360, I'll give it a real comparison.

[TransatlanticFoe]

I remember, way back when, that pads were virtually non existent in the UK. We all used Quickshot Pros or Kempston style joysticks.

Woah! I remember taking the old Kempston joystick I used for my Speccy and playing a few games on my Master System (anything where you could get away with only using Button 1). It was way more responsive. But since, I've got the same out of a Mega Drive pad on the SMS so I think the standard controllers are just a bit pants.

I find pads lend to quicker reaction times from myself because it's a slight thumb movement rather than wrist and fingers/thumb. Either that or I've grown so used to home consoles that I feel more at home with pads: The only time I got my planes out of the hangar in Raid Over Moscow on the Speccy was using a Master System pad...

[Bananamatic]

lol 6 year necro

Also keyboards all the way man

[Thjodbjorn]

I've been using sticks for fighters for ever. I had started out with pads for shmups. When I somewhat recently set up a PC for MAME, it was too much of a pain to set up a pad, so I started using one of my sticks, and I've finally become much more comfortable with them, and use them on consoles as well.